List of Shumi´s evolution

[Hazzard]

Okay then where is this evidence? Huh, can you tell me what it is. Also it was said... ELDERS don't evolve, not that Shumi's don't. Perhaps you should support yourself before trying to support FE.

Cid knows about places that shumi's have done, ONLY shumi's are suposed to know these thing, but he does.

Secconded why would that shumi who's name escapes me suddenly trust a human when everywhere else he seams to hate humans? Answer: Cid is not a true human.[/quote]

You are joking, right? Cause this is hilarious, you're judging from Cid's knowledge and a Shumi's trust, but the evidence is very vague and hardly suitable for a conclusion stating that Cid is Shumi.

This is the sort of evidence I would expect from a five year old who just got high on sweets, meaning that someone is chatting a load of pointless, irrelevant things which lead to...NOTHING.

If you mean the Shumi, NORG, then you definitely ain't taking in anything from this game, cause NORG only done business with Cid because of the amount of profit he would make from making a Garden; knowing that Cid would do well to run the Garden as Headmaster, but NORG still keeping control as the official and enigmatic "Garden Master" he doubts his trust in Cid later on when you meet him for the first time in the basement of Garden, never implying that Cid was of his kind.

I really can't take this anymore, man, you and FE are too ignorant to even get proper facts, but supply a load of crap with no proof. Just stop this BS, cause it's stupid and making you guys look like morons.

[Goldenboko]

I think Hazzard sumed up my response. You're stretching the truth of this game too far, and thats why you're evidence just snapped, there's nothing behind this theory.

[MJN SEIFER]

Hazzard has made pretty good points and I acknoledge(sp?) them.

My main argument isn't wether FE is right or not, just that his theory's don't come from nowhere.

I like reading his theory's and I do genuiningly believe them. This one I admitidly am in two minds about, but it doesn't stop me enjoying them.

But people like Square are quite subtle and they put things in for the sharp eyed gamers. Some may not be intentional, but some are.

It is like the Orphange thing (I know I've done that argument) and NORG (Thanks for reminding me of his name).

Both of these are interpeted differently from different gamers, some think both just appeard when the story needed them, but the sharp eyed gamers saw that there was evidence of their existence before hand.

Also compare this with FFVII, some gamers beleive the obvious and that Sephiroth was "running the show", but other look at deeper "clues" and decide Jenova was behind it all. Who knows which side is right, there is evidence to suport both sides.


Basically people see "clues" and interpret them how they do, because of how their minds see them, of course a clue may not always be a clue, it may be nothing, but in a game made by Square, very few things must go over looked.

Just let's let everyone who wants to post serious theorys (i.e. not ones they made up for a joke, unless that's the purpose of the thread) and if you disagree fine, there will be at least one who agrees.

The only will permenantly solve this is if a Square employee (who would need proof s/he was a Square emloyee) entered this thread right now and told us, once and for all, who is right, and who is wrong.

[Goldenboko]

I have to disagree with you MJN. Square produces games with complex stories, that often have side stories which have nothing to do with each other. Where it does take a level of competence to understand the storyline, it does not take philosophy. Which Final Fantasy fans have begun to turn to. Jenova doesn't control Sephiroth, people looked too deeply into FFVII's storyline and came to a false conclusion, eventually, square got fed up with everyone misinterpreting so many sections that they came up with the Ultimania guides. Which explain the stories of final fantasy. One of the things that Ultimania explain was Sephiroth had complete control over Jenova. FE is looking into FFVIII as if it had a submeaning of life itself, which it doesn't. Final Fantasy fans need to stop analyzing the plots of FFs this much, because, they are only games.

[Hazzard]

At the end of the day there wouldn't be any need for a Square employee to tell us the truth, for we can judge that for ourselves, and I certainly can't be drawn into belief by a couple lines of nonfactual info about someones baseless ideas. Square may occasionally leave a gamer to think deeper into certain parts of the game, but in no way do I think it was their intention to give off the idea of Cid evolving into anything, because he coexisted with the very people FE had mentioned; Mayor Dobe and Vinzer Deling, and if you first meet Mayor Dobe in the second disc, and Deling dies in the end of the first, then tell me how he performed this "evolution?" and please don't try say Deling never died, because that would be simply idiotic.

And once again, MJN SEIFER, you have failed to backup FE's theories, and you can't just say their real because you enjoy them, that's tactless and childish. If you really want to support him, then bring me some hard, solid, believable facts!

EDIT - Goldenboko hit the point I was going at as well...people are looking too deeply into a relatively normal storyline, and assuming far too much complex ideas.

[MJN SEIFER]

At that point I wasn't trying to back up the theories.

I have never seen these Ultimania guides, but if it was made by Square it's crucial evidence.

If I made a game, I would put subtle things in, but my main point would be the main storyline. But I'd put evidence for other stuff elsewhere.

But I understand I am not Square, so they may not do the same thing.

I will back up the theories I fully beleive - this one I am deciding.


I also realize the "just a game" angle, but so many stories where "just" what ever they were. Some writers do like subtlety but not all.

Yes I know I again did not provide back up but I will if you really want it, bare with me.

[Goldenboko]

You're last statement did nothing to support you're argument seeing as you have to have those opinions in order to be fighting you're side of the argument.
Square hires their writers to make stories that can reach a vast audience so they could easily rack in the big bucks. They would never want the entire storyline to be dictated by facts only a handful of people could see.

Lastly, yes we do need proof, but you're problem is, you cannot disprove that elders cannot evolve. You can ask me to cite my source and I will not because I'm confident its said and I'm not going to go searching for an exact quote. Besides, you're the one who should be proving an argument, all of my facts are clearly stated in game, real life, or obvious deductions about how companies have to work in order to make money.

[Comet]

I don't believe any of Future Esthar's theories. He believes what he wants to believe.

FF8 Story

This is the whole FF8 timeline, so if you are willing to make another thread to do with time compression, I suggest you read everything on this site first.

[Hazzard]

MJN SEIFER, you're fighting for a lost cause. Bring us some concrete info in your next post to bolster your argument, because this is just pathetic, and we should probably stop replying to FE's insane, and primitively imaginative posts. The idea is sickening that Square would do such a thing, mainly because nobody would find logic in it, and wouldn't find it defining any sort of relevance to the story, even if subtle, it would be foolish to add such a poor revelation to the game. Square would never be so idiotic, and I suggest you guys read Comet's link, maybe that will make you finally understand the story of FF8, not Cid's turning into Shumi's; I'm sure that would of been revealed long ago, such a significant fact wouldn't be left unknown. Only two people believe this, and it's clearly impossible that it's real.

[MJN SEIFER]

MJN SEIFER, you're fighting for a lost cause. Bring us some concrete info in your next post to bolster your argument, because this is just pathetic, and we should probably stop replying to FE's insane, and primitively imaginative posts. The idea is sickening that Square would do such a thing, mainly because nobody would find logic in it, and wouldn't find it defining any sort of relevance to the story, even if subtle, it would be foolish to add such a poor revelation to the game. Square would never be so idiotic, and I suggest you guys read Comet's link, maybe that will make you finally understand the story of FF8, not Cid's turning into Shumi's; I'm sure that would of been revealed long ago, such a significant fact wouldn't be left unknown. Only two people believe this, and it's clearly impossible that it's real.

The reason I fighting a "lost cause" is because I'm not even fighting ANY cause. I am not part of this debate. I just offererd opinon on it,

I have read comet's link before, a lot of that is probable, but it is what we see, I agree with what it says, but I agree with some of FE's theories aswell.


Also some of his theories I actually thought of before I saw them, but he put them into more perspective.

He could be wrong, I realize that, but that doesn't mean have to treat him like someone who is bashing the game.

And don't say I didn't give evdience because I am not trying to!!!

[Hazzard]

Didn't you just say that you were going to gather evidence from your previous post, if we really wanted you to, I want you to, because your heart-set on this madman's "theories". I'll give you one simple question; why? Why do you believe that Cid evolves into a Shumi? That the clear, visible evidence in the FF8 Story is a hoax, and that we bloody have to think more deeper...you are analyzing too much...just see reality for itself, Square didn't aim to make people think this far into a video game - predicting things without no logic or reason, but they obviously didn't realize what effect it would have on the more special gamers...

[Comet]

The reason I fighting a "lost cause" is because I'm not even fighting ANY cause. I am not part of this debate. I just offererd opinon on it,

I have read comet's link before, a lot of that is probable, but it is what we see, I agree with what it says, but I agree with some of FE's theories aswell.


Also some of his theories I actually thought of before I saw them, but he put them into more perspective.

He could be wrong, I realize that, but that doesn't mean have to treat him like someone who is bashing the game.

And don't say I didn't give evdience because I am not trying to!!!

May I care to add that that link is not 'probable' but in fact, quite accurate. You would see that if you read the 'about us link' on the left hand side of the page.

[Hazzard]

Basically he believes some delusional, crazy individual over solid, concrete proof; that's clever, ain't it?!

[MJN SEIFER]

Basically he believes some delusional, crazy individual over solid, concrete proof; that's clever, ain't it?!

You (presumably by acident) made me smile here.

Also I understand what your saying, I will gather evidence for OTHER theoies not this one, I accept defeat here.

[Hazzard]

Thank you, and goodbye. Until the next false theory comes by *waves*