Which Villain Accomplished The Most?

[Bolivar]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

[Bolivar]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

Okay. I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game. As did the population in the world of VII and V. Only the main party dared challenge their respective villains, just like in VI. You should probably play/complete/pay attention to those games because it seems like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Second. I’m not sure how discussing how anything Kefka did makes me a graphic whore. I never said he didn’t rearrange the face of the earth. This has nothing to do with limitations – all of the towns were intact except Mobliz, that’s just the way it was. If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did. So once again, it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re devolving the argument by bringing up graphics, which I did not mention.

I’m not sure what significance your statement on villains has. My point was that Kefka is a cowardly little girl.

[Goldenboko]

That being said, Kefka didn't destroy any world - he fried 1 town.

Wrong actually. He unleashed his light of judgement against every town simply for fun. This was also after he had originally rearranged the face of the world and made it so that no new plants could grow from the land, essentially ensuring that everything on the planet was condemned to a slow death. And prior to becoming a god he had already killed all the espers and poisoned an entire kingdom. As much as you may want to argue that others accomplished more, none of them accomplished more in game, caused as much suffering, or had the sort of lasting effect he did on their world.

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

You're too worried about body counts. Kefka had the entire world fear him far more then Imperial dominance, X-Death, or Ulti did. In all of the other games there where lots of people willing to speak out and resist against the main villain. In FFVI everyone was so afraid of suddenly being blown to bits they didn't dare. Fear, its far worse then just killing someone.

Now continuing on... You're being a graphic whore. He did rearrange the face of the earth, consider the location of each city. The developers didn't go to crazy making everywhere appear rearrange and utterly destroyed because of the timeframe it was made, they could only push the system it was on so far. You seem to use graphics to support your arguments in place we are talking about storyline.

And if you want to talk about body count, think about this. When he moved the statues lots of people died. Remember the scene of the earth changing shape? People where falling into large cracks of the earth to their doom.

EDIT- As for staying behind and poisoning Doma. That proves two things.

1. You have some kind of sense that villains need to be macho, march into places, and kill everything in sight. Thats not a smart villain, that is a dumb one. A smart villain will kill just as much as a macho one without risking death.

2. Kefka was ruthless. He killed his own soldiers while poisoning Doma, I dare you to say that you could make an order like that.

there's so many misinterpretations and red herrings in this post that I am going to refuse to acknowledge it。
啊；拉；拉是俄克，雌蛾，诶！！！！

What kind of statement is that? If they where so many "misinterpretations and red herrings" you should easily be able to make a response.

Okay. I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game. As did the population in the world of VII and V. Only the main party dared challenge their respective villains, just like in VI. You should probably play/complete/pay attention to those games because it seems like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Second. I’m not sure how discussing how anything Kefka did makes me a graphic whore. I never said he didn’t rearrange the face of the earth. This has nothing to do with limitations – all of the towns were intact except Mobliz, that’s just the way it was. If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did. So once again, it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re devolving the argument by bringing up graphics, which I did not mention.

I’m not sure what significance your statement on villains has. My point was that Kefka is a cowardly little girl.

No they didn't "Give up hope" in FFVII, I will say, most of the general population didn't think they could do anything to stop the oncoming doom. But the main party wasn't the only one who tried, Shinra tried, without them, we wouldn't even have gotten pasted the barrier. What I'm saying is in FFVI, you where the only resistance. That was it, just you.

Second. You're implying things about graphics. You say "the towns where unchanged". If anything thats because of laziness on the developers parts, plus all of the plants of the earth being dead is hardly "nothing changed". If anything, thats worse then a few broken buildings.

You're last part proved my point. You have this macho-needing attitude. Poisoning Doma castle wasn't cowardly, it was "I'm tired of waiting for you guys to kill them, I'm doing this the fast way."

Lastly, don't sit here and tell me I don't know anything, its very rude. Occasionally I do post things in a hurry, which have errors in them (I shouldn't have included X-Death, but I accidentally did), but you take debating far too seriously, and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

[PuPu]

I think you need to actually play FFII before you engage in threads that discuss the entire series. The entire world gave up hope in that game.

That's not quite true. Hilda and the Resistance still had enough hope that they opposed the Emporer.

If you played Chrono Trigger, you would see that even with the Super Nintendo, updating levels was not a hard thing to do, even the world map was altered several times depending on what you did.

Well, there's the fact that FFVI was Mode 7, which showed how much more advanced it was than regular 2D graphics whenever you flew on the airship. I think it might have made a difference.

[The Crystal]

Talking about people in the world "losing hope" and "losing the will to fight", i think people should read all the Cases of "On a Way to a Smile". Seriously, Sephiroth totally fuc*ed the world. With the fall of Shinra and his Meteor destroying Midgar, Mako wasn't being used anymore. And because of that, almost all the machines in the world became useless(because Mako was the primary source of energy in the world). It was basically a retrocess in society. And in the same time, many and many people in the world were sick or dying from an incurable disease. And with all that, came the depression. Everyone was sad. This feeling of depression is very clear in the novelas, principally "Case of Barret".

If we talk about "making people sad, losing their will to fight and their hopes", the fear of Meteor is nothing compared to what Sephiroth's Meteor(destroying Midgar) and Geostigma did.

[silentenigma]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?

That is just a cool battle animation made to impress people. If you use that to determine his power, it would make no sense because he supposedly destroyed the sun and Earth as well. And if Earth really did get blown up by the sun, nobody could survive that. But it is clearly shown that your characters are still alive, and Earth is still intact after you manage to beat Sephiroth.

relax, he wasn't serious.

[PuPu]

Dude its got to be sephiroth.When he does that move at the end of ffvii dosent he destroy jupiter, the largest planet?

That is just a cool battle animation made to impress people. If you use that to determine his power, it would make no sense because he supposedly destroyed the sun and Earth as well. And if Earth really did get blown up by the sun, nobody could survive that. But it is clearly shown that your characters are still alive, and Earth is still intact after you manage to beat Sephiroth.

relax, he wasn't serious.

It's harder to detect something like that due to:
1. Sephiroth has way too many rabid fans that can hardly explain why they like him. I'm talking about the people who say things like "omg sephi is teh coolest because he is so badass and a huge sword." Though I'm not implying that he, nor anybody else here is like that.

2. It's harder to detect things like sarcasm over the internet.

[Bolivar]

and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

[Goldenboko]

and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

Irony? I've yet to make a single comment doubting how much you know about FFs. Although you've been trying to cut me down every turn.

I'm fretting over details I find important.

[Bolivar]

and find a need to try and make other people sound like trash.

my lord, the irony is killing me

you completely disreguard my main points, are consistently inconsistent with your arguments (differentiating losing hope with not thinking you can do anything), and focus on side comments as main components (Machismo has nothing to do with it - it was my potshot at Kefka, my other points detail how he accomplished just as much or less than other FF villains). I just can't take you seriously.

That being said, I think one way in which Kefka accomplished maybe more than any other character is that he became a "god" although that's debatable and other villains, although not stated to be gods, had just as much or more power.

Irony? I've yet to make a single comment doubting how much you know about FFs. Although you've been trying to cut me down every turn.

I'm fretting over details I find important.

ironic because almost every post i've seen you make in an FF forum is a disagreement, many times being your only contribution to a thread. Just like this little episode began with your initial disagreement with my original post. So I'm not allowed to defend my post w/o it being "tyring to cut you down at every turn"???. And pointing out the flaws in your criticisms of me is "taking debating far too seriously"??? Okay....

My votes going to Ultimecia in that she got rid of everything in her own time, turning the entire planet to a wasteland, killing the multiple generations of waves of SeeD's going at her, and was directly manipulating major events in another time period (or dimension as Future Esthar has said ). Her absorbing time and existence at the end of the game, as Crystal pointed out in a few threads, seems to be the clincher.

[Gilthanes]

I may be wrong but didnt Ulti achieve time compression at the whim of the main characters. They had 2 choices, seal/kill off the sorcs of their time period, or let Ulti take control of Rinoa and have Ellone allow time compression to occur in order to jump into her time period and defeat her?

We coulda been wimps and just sacrificed Rinoa and let another generation deal with it

[The Crystal]

Just remember guys, Ultimecia started TC but never finished it.

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja was a master of spreading fear and panic.

First it was his Black Mages spreading death everywhere they went. They were known and spoken about with terror across the continent.

Then later on he brings the Mist back which covers the entire world, causing various deaths by the Iifa Tree's roots ripping up through the ground. The heavy concentration of Mist also produced new and harder monsters.

Though the fall of Shinra, due entirely to Cloud's group, had a profound impact on FFVII Gaia.

Though, it wasn't entirely their doing. Diamond WEAPON "killing" Rufus helped. But Cloud and the gang stamped out the rest of the heads.

But I'm sure people in the other worlds would be just as hopeless and depressed as those in FF7 if they saw death approaching them day after day.

No one in FFIX knew they were gonna die except the party.

I may be wrong but didnt Ulti achieve time compression at the whim of the main characters

Yes. She was too weak to go back in time and needed the heroes to help her and use the Plot Device Ellione.

[Slothy]

That must have been a pretty weak light considering every town in the world was the same as before it, except for Mobliz, who didn't even have their entire village wiped out or their structures torn down, just with a few holes in them. Nor did he kill all the espers as the party still had theres and even more were still alive in the world.

Also, he didn't poison an entire Kingdom - only the castle. Which also illustrates how much of a little girl Kefka is. He did it with poison from a safe distance. There were probably more people in the Shinra building than in the entire world of FFVI, much less Doma Castle.

As far as making everyone lose hope for an extended period of time, Meteor did that. The Void did that. The Imperial dominance of Palamecia did that. And the emporer/x-death destroyed several towns, not just 1. Ultimecia destroyed the entire world in her time. Not rearrange the structure, not just some of the population in one town, she killed EVERYONE.

First; every town was in partial ruins with who knows how many people dead. If you didn't notice, Kefka wasn't concerned with outright killing everyone with his light of judgement. He already guarenteed that everyhing would die a slow death so long as he existed, and he was a man who liked to see people suffer. Also, magicite are what is created when Espers die. He finished off all but one that was still alive in the world after he killed General Leo (that one still being frozen in Narshe).

Second; Doma castle was the kingdom. There was never any indication that they controlled anything else, and there were no towns within a reasonable distance that we could even assume might have been under their control. Therefore, he poisoned an entire kingdom, and killed his own men in the process. It was a smart and ruthless thing to do, and far more sadistic than anything the other villians did. Also, you can't really assume that there aren't many people in the world based on what we see. Based on the number of people we see in just about any FF except XII, these towns must be full of nothing but inbred hicks as they certainly don't have enough people to support more than three or four families. The abilities of the consoles is limited, which limits how many people they can put in. Heck, there are more people in Midgar in Advent Children than in all of FFVII. What you see is just a poor representation of an actual world.

Finally; Meteor made people lose hope for what? A few days? Same with the void and largely the same with the others. Kefka became a god and ground the world under his boot heel for a year. Even if people could have stood up to him, they were living in a dying world. As far as anyone knew, there may have been absolutely no recovering from it. Even the heroes largely lost hope over the course of that year as they watched everything fall apart around them. No other villian has managed to plunge their world and their enemies into the hoplessness that Kefka did. That's why he's the best villian.