No, no it isn't.
No, no it isn't.
It can be easy to brush off Aeris' actions as "idiotic" or "stupid", but I think that really underplays her personality and intelligence. At no point in the game does she demonstrate that she is particularly reckless. One could interpret her actions in a couple of ways; she may have been shaken by the events at the City of the Ancients (she saw Cloud give the Black Materia to Sephiroth before he started beating the crap out of her) and felt that she was better off on her own. In another sense she may have known full well what she was doing and the full strength of Sephi and decided not to get the others involved. After all they're not Ancients and it isn't their responsibility to summon Holy. Or it could have simply been that she didn't know that Sephiroth would be present. However pre-knowledge of her death or not, I think at the actual event itself she is willing to accept her death. From what we've heard Holy was already on its way but was stopped by Sephiroth, rather than Aeris failing to summon it. So in essence her role was fulfilled. Perhaps she thought that it would be possible for her to allow Holy to escape if she returned to the planet. Whatever the case, I don't think Aeris was just "being stupid" when she decided to go on her own. The only possible explanation I can come up with is the possibility that the writers didn't think through her motivation for leaving. However, given the strength of the writing and its consistency throughout the rest of the game I find this hard to believe.Originally Posted by PuPu
As for the whole sprites versus 3D animation arguement, I really don't know how else to convince you. The sheer jump from one to the other is hard to compare in real-terms to anything else, but from an artistic point of view it's massive. You go from a limited colour palette, static angles and severely limited facial and body animations to near-humanlike expression and action. It'd be like having the death scene of Boromir in Lord of the Rings done with shadow puppets. If you genuinely believe that the simple sprites of yesteryear can more effectively produce an emotional reaction compared to more modern techniques then you're free to think so. Personally I disagree wholly with you, the main reason being this; Who do people remember dying more - General Leo or Aeris?
There is no signature here. Move along.
QFT.. gotta love people who jump on the hate bandwagons without reason. I bet more than half of them were fanboys/girls themselves.
Even ten years later I'd still say it's my personal favorite in the series.. because it was the first game I actually spent over a few days of gametime playing. And I'll never forget it... I rented it from Blockbuster, and then we were hit with the massive snow storm of 98', and school was out for a few weeks. Luckily our apartment still had power so I was able to enjoy it.. I was drawn in right from the first bombing run. I was impressed by the dialogue and graphics, even though I thought some of it was a little cheesy. The music had me turning up my TV. The combat was fast, and the materia system was incredibly easy to pickup. Midgar was a great place to start off the game... the mix of fantasy and sci fi, the slums, meeting the Shinra and the Turks for the first time, learning about Hojo and Sephiroth.. then I was playing about 5-6 hours straight after the first history lesson in Kalm.
Anyway.. I played right through till the end, and I got lost enough times along the way so that Cloud was 99, and the rest of my party was around 85-95, so the final battle was extremly intense. I hadn't used any guides or anything, so I didn't know about KotR or mime or anything else. And I accidently gave sephiroth an x-potion halfway through the fight when I panicked after a super nova ):
It was the most fun I've ever had with a game.. I was only eleven and not really a gamer until then. After that I really got into RPGs, but it was hard to find something as intricate as FFVII, until VIII came along.. and I stuck with FF's as my main source of RPGs.
The Aeris death and losing Cloud in the later part of the game were my favorite parts..
That's just my experience, I was never a rabid fan, but I have yet to play a game I got so involved in. I would have rathered they made some kind of sequel or prelude to the game rather than a few spin-offs and AC.. but oh well.
In terms of storyline and gameplay, I'd say FFVII is still the best of the series. IX for graphics and characters.
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Firstly, I'd like to show this:QFT.. gotta love people who jump on the hate bandwagons without reason. I bet more than half of them were fanboys/girls themselves. /
This proves my point of:Even ten years later I'd still say it's my personal favorite in the series.. because it was the first game I actually spent over a few days of gametime playing. And I'll never forget it...
Secondly, the amount of hate the FF7 probably gets is nothing to the amount of rabid fans it gets, so I don't see what the problem of not liking FF7 is.Many people I have seen like it because it was their first FF they ever played.
And finally, unlike what you two might have thought, I actually gave reasons as to why I did not like FF7, in case your minds were too clouded of thoughts such as "there's another person who didn't like FF7, total hater". Maybe that's why neither of you read what I said. So there goes your theory of "jumping the hate bandwagon without reason." If anything, you two are more of rabid fanboys yourselves, since you immediately jumped on me as soon as I said I didn't like FF7 and ignored everything I said after that.
Maxx- Your first paragraph seems to be all interpretation of her character, and I suppose if you think she was doing it for other reasons that are different from mine, which are recklessness and stupidity, then I don't think there is any way to convince either of us. And even though the story might have been strong throughout most of the game, it is not flawless or perfect. So it seems to me that the writers might or could have just missed this one part. As for your second paragraph, you are right. The fact that the art and how well it was drawn does have somewhat of an effect in making me remember it, but it does not make it better in my opinion, since I was never really a type of person who was swayed by graphics.
But I know when I am beat. I'm glad to have debated with someone who definitely knows how to explain why they like FF7 and isn't a rabid fanboy. No offense, of course.
Last edited by PuPu; 08-22-2007 at 06:02 PM.
The best? Yeah right.
VII had the unfortunate position of being in the "flashy" generation (where cool graphics became more important that was FF was really all about, the story) and also the first of that generation, which makes its graphics a laughingstock compared to all later games in the series. It does hold the rather useless title of the most revolutionary FF game, but does not get anywhere near being the best because it contained far too many bugs, glitches, typoes, suffered from a broken ability system (Materia), was far too easy, had a protagonist and villain who, like the game itself, are insanely overrated, and a litter of spin-offs.
This is a signature.
That's just a terrible question to ask, d00d. Already there's three pages of replies that I'd prefer not to inflict upon myself. It mightn't be the best at all (10 or 12 probably is in terms of size, graphics and just about anything that might make a game replayable) but it is my favourite.
7 is most likely most popular in PAL territories for obvious reasons (It was our first; Mystic Quest had the FF title removed). It's a scary thought that the worst of its fanchildren probably come from my own country.
If you could point out where I said you laughed at her death, I would appreciate that. I said you laughing "hard" at someone giving props to a game scene is a pretty childish thing to do. And it is.I didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.
And just because you don't understand a character's motives doesn't mean that he/she is an idiot.
Alright, I misunderstood you the first time.If you could point out where I said you laughed at her death, I would appreciate that. I said you laughing "hard" at someone giving props to a game scene is a pretty childish thing to do. And it is.I didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.
I'm not laughing at the fact that people might have liked Aeris' death. I'm not saying that it's wrong for people to like certain things such whether it be the game of FF7, or Aeris' death. What I thought was funny was the exaggeration, and you can't tell me that it wasn't an exaggeration. I'm sorry if what I did offended you in any way.
Though the thing I really didn't understand was why you quoted one of my posts and changed the subject to how I was acting childish. Are you just trying to prove some kind of point by saying that I'm childish? Or are you just trying to avoid my original question?
And just because you think certain lines of a game are unimportant, "little blocks saying brief texts" does not make it so either.And just because you don't understand a character's motives doesn't mean that he/she is an idiot.
Last edited by PuPu; 08-22-2007 at 05:51 PM.
This thread is showing off one of the biggest problems the FFVII forum (along with a few others) gets.
People need to realize that not everyone will like the same thing as them. This thread is clearly going to look for opinions, which, is going to be very bad for debating. And we are going to get bitchfights because of it (such as Bolivar v. PuPu), and said fights shall never end.
My opinion will be no, I may exaggerate here and there, but it will stay no.
Those who say yes, will also exaggerate, but their opinions will stay yes.
And if you continue to try and make jabs each other, we're going to get what already has started, "You're being Childish." "You're making bad posts because you want to hate the game."
Point in short, stop arguing, a thread that asks for opinions is not a good place for debates.
Boko is right. Look Bolivar, I think you are a really great debater and often makes great posts. However, this argument is getting us nowhere. And I believe that you are right; this debate has brought out the worst in both of us. Let's agree to just end this right here before it gets out of hand.
Alright, I have a theory. I've had this theory for a while and the more I read this board, the more I think I'm probably right.
I believe I have determined what kind of people love FFVII and what kind of people hate it.
It has been theorized many times by many people that the people who love it do because it was their "first." Close. It correlates with age a bit, but you're missing the mark.
It isn't that it had to be the very first, it's just that they had to have been young (teens) when they first played it.
If you played the game first as a teenager you saw the protagonist and thought "wow, he's so cool. He's a badass rebel loner who acts like he doesn't need friends and doesn't want any. He's so deep.... he's just like me." The angsty teenager identifies with Cloud, and so they love the game. If you're a non-angsty teenager when you play it you might not like the game as much, but lets face it, if you're a teenager and playing video games-- especially RPGs-- in the 90s, chances are you leaned at least a little toward angsty.
If you were like me and played the game for the first time as an adult, identifying with cloud was considerably harder. "ooooh, Mr. 'I'm a badass with no sense of humor, no friends, and trying to look tough when I'm a scared little boy. Look at me, I have the personality of a stump!' *eyeroll* Get over yourself you cliche teen angst weakling." And so you hate the guy you're supposed to be role-playing, making it pretty hard to get into the game.
I am almost positive that if I had been 14 when I first played FFVII I would've absolutely loved it and it would be among my favorites today. I know my old self well enough to know I would've had a man crush on cloud. "oooh, we get each other! We're kindred spirits!" Ugh. Luckily I've grown up, but I did so without ever playing VII, without identifying with cloud, and therefore without having fond memories of getting lost in his role.
I agree that we get too sidetracked in these threads from actually holding good discussions, although they do permeate in almost all of them.
But when people start saying outlandishly false things to supplement/justify their hatred for something, i am going to call them out on it. I don't go into the the NES/SNES forums making inflammatory and baseless comments to instigate "bitchfights" as boko puts it, so why do the FFVI fans? Maybe it's because rather than getting caught up in some kind of grudge I enjoy the older games just as much as the newer ones and have just as much to say about them.
Why can't we all just get along?
There where no "outlandishly false things" in his statement. He stated "It wasn't the best death, and FFVII didn't do it for me." He used exageration just as you did right in your own statement by saying " I don't go into the the NES/SNES... so why do the FFVI fans?". They don't, they state their opinions, sometimes with an edge of sarcasm, but we all do. And all of the fans of the game can't take that. When it comes down to it, the ONLY reason that the NES and SNES forums don't get as many (they do get some) of these negitive, sarcastic comments, is because less PSX fans have played them. Stop trying to continue this argument now.I agree that we get too sidetracked in these threads from actually holding good discussions, although they do permeate in almost all of them.
But when people start saying outlandishly false things to supplement/justify their hatred for something, i am going to call them out on it. I don't go into the the NES/SNES forums making inflammatory and baseless comments to instigate "bitchfights" as boko puts it, so why do the FFVI fans? Maybe it's because rather than getting caught up in some kind of grudge I enjoy the older games just as much as the newer ones and have just as much to say about them.
Why can't we all just get along?
I still stand by my reasons as to why I didn't like FF7. But I can agree that the way I said them might have seemed a bit harsh, since saying "FF7 is the worst because..." and "I think FF7 is the worst because..." are quite different. Unfortunately, I sounded more like the former than the latter, which probably made myself sound like a rabid hater to many people.
Bolivar- I'm assuming you are talking about calling me out when I talked about Aeris. I'm not trying to start another argument, just to make things clear by saying that I didn't hate the scene. I just didn't think it was appropriate to exaggerate it as the best death in video games. It would be like saying "Sephiroth is the best villain in all video games."
FFVII has the best story (or at least it's superior to FFVIII's), but it is not the best game overall. But neither is FFVIII, so...
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