Is VII really the best???

[Lawr]

FFVII is my Favourite but not the best, i dont consider any Final Fantasy the best because they are all brilliant in their own way.

I wonder why they're all called Final Fantasy...

[Armisael]

I think it is. It had such a huge impact on the gaming world and nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!

Personally, i wasn't moved the slightest. Maybe a little bit because of the music. It was more of a relaxing feeling though.

As for VII being the best, i don't know. I like it a lot, but i think i prefer VIII and IX.

[Bolivar]

nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!

That just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.

i guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."

I think it's one of the best. IMO it's a 3-way tie between the PSX titles although sometimes I feel IX is disqualified for being a tribute game rather than a new entry.

[,,,]

pfft, no.

My objective opinion is that it's the 2nd worst FF, a not completely horrible and without merit, yet mediocre game that inexplicably overshadows 7 (at least) superior FFs.

My unobjective opinion is that I resent the fanpersons who made this happen, hate the game with a fiery passion on account of that, and want to pimp-slap anyone who actually thinks this is the best game or that sephiroth was anything going for him whatsoever.

I also wasn't the least bit moved by the death, but that's mostly because I didn't think I'd ever get to play the game (did not know about emulators) and read all the spoilers on it. Never used her in my party when I didn't have to, never grew attached, and knew it was coming from the start. Kinda hard to be moved under those conditions.

[PuPu]

nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!

That just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.

i guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."

And how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?

Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics and pixels. Why not reduce everything else in the game to that as well then?

And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.

[Goldenboko]

nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!

That just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.

i guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."

And how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?

Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics.

Those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.

Correction PRAYING like a defenseless idiot, another reason to never pray :P

[Captain Maxx Power]

Your views?

I enjoyed the story and length of 8 more.

To say that Final Fantasy 7 was a insignificant step in Role-Playing Games would be like saying the discovery of DNA was an insignificant step in biology...well, maybe not that far, but you get what I mean. Before FF7 no one had seen this kind of RPG before in terms of artistic direction and setting (baring obscure, non-mainstream titles). FF7 was hugely successful partly because of it being part of the franchise (in Japan at least), but also because of how different it was. That FF7 sold as well as it did overseas despite the relatively unknown presence of the FF franchise in general in the consciousness of gamers must mean something, as does it's popularity. You don't become popular by sucking. However stupid the majority may sometimes be, most of the time they have a point, also taking into account that the average gamer is a lot pickier compared to a high-street music jockey.

In terms of it's merits and flaws it's obvious that it suffered from simplistic graphics (specifically character models), bad translation (PSX USA version) and a boatload of niggling bugs that really should have been stamped out (overflowing Vincent's Death Penalty, MDefense not counting towards your final total etc. etc.). In some ways its quite a sloppily made package. This can be attributed to a combination of not understanding the hardware and a speed to ship the game (but let's not forget Square have a history of lacking oversight in terms of their battle systems - FF6's infamous MBlock% bug anyone?). However what stands out for many is the storyline, which at the time of its release was the most unique selling point. Whilst previous RPG titles had delved into the idea of character development and arcing storylines, arguably FF7 contributed the most (in it's generation) towards pushing the medium along. It took cues primarily from the likes of film and television, two medium that have honed their visual narrative skills, and applied it to a complex and borderline metaphysical script (the nature of the self, cycle of life, dealing with rejection and depression - pretty heavy stuff).

As for what I think, FF7 to me is, along with all of the other FF's, a stand-out RPG no matter which way you look at it. To brush off its positive qualities outright due to its popularity is ridiculous. While I admit that the sheer popularity associated with the game can border on the insane (I see the compilation of FF7 to be grossly unnecessary creatively speaking), it doesn't put me off being subjective to it as its own product. As it happens it stands very well as its own product.

And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.

I think you misinterpreted the scene, and indeed the character of Aeris. She is less a person and more a symbol, specifically a symbol of the arcane and mystical. There are several attributes she possesses that separate her from the other party members; she's an ancient, she can communicate with the planet/dead, she has no real fear of death due to her knowledge of how life works, and most importantly her eventual role is that of a magical conduit through which the salvation of the earth, namely Holy, may be brought about. That no one else alive can do this makes her very important indeed. Its a gradual transition, and one so underplayed that many players miss it, and the game cleverly misdirects you by focusing on the apparently romantic entanglement between Cloud and herself. Post-death of course she takes her place as this mystical force, and solidifies this role in the animated film Advent Children. As for the scene itself, as I said before she has no real fear of death. Most likely she is more than aware of her untimely demise. Note she doesn't react to Sephiroth falling from the ceiling. Not a wince, not a single movement until the blade is driven into her. With all due respect, the power of this scene couldn't be recreated as effectively in a sprite-based environment. Comparing it to previous death scenes in the franchise and attempting to justify their superiority in terms of artistic direction is madness. Scripting and character development aside, the strength of the death scene of Aeris comes partly from the way in which it's play out, from the camera angles that show the death to the slow fades that lead to the Holy materia dropping into the water. Frankly this is something the pre-FF7 Final Fantasies would not have been capable of doing.

[PuPu]

And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.

I think you misinterpreted the scene, and indeed the character of Aeris. She is less a person and more a symbol, specifically a symbol of the arcane and mystical. There are several attributes she possesses that separate her from the other party members; she's an ancient, she can communicate with the planet/dead, she has no real fear of death due to her knowledge of how life works, and most importantly her eventual role is that of a magical conduit through which the salvation of the earth, namely Holy, may be brought about. That no one else alive can do this makes her very important indeed. Its a gradual transition, and one so underplayed that many players miss it, and the game cleverly misdirects you by focusing on the apparently romantic entanglement between Cloud and herself. Post-death of course she takes her place as this mystical force, and solidifies this role in the animated film Advent Children. As for the scene itself, as I said before she has no real fear of death. Most likely she is more than aware of her untimely demise. Note she doesn't react to Sephiroth falling from the ceiling. Not a wince, not a single movement until the blade is driven into her. With all due respect, the power of this scene couldn't be recreated as effectively in a sprite-based environment. Comparing it to previous death scenes in the franchise and attempting to justify their superiority in terms of artistic direction is madness. Scripting and character development aside, the strength of the death scene of Aeris comes partly from the way in which it's play out, from the camera angles that show the death to the slow fades that lead to the Holy materia dropping into the water. Frankly this is something the pre-FF7 Final Fantasies would not have been capable of doing.

I won't argue that Aeris was the only one who could summon Holy or that she had a special connection with the planet. But I don't agree that she knew Sephy would kill her, since Cloud and the rest didn't see him coming either. And I think what she did was idiotic because of the fact that she decided to go alone for some reason, instead of just telling to the group that she needed to go to the City of the Ancients. And if the group went along, she would have been able to summon Holy and most likely been alive at the same time.

And as for the camera angles showing her death, this seems no different than showing animations such as screen flashing, explosions, fading away, etc. to strengthen someone or something's death. And I don't believe how well it was animated determines how strong the death was.

[Aralith]

Well, my personal opinion of VII is that it is very good. I would probably call it my favorite. The storyline was emotional and thought-provoking. The characters were all 3-dimensional (that is, artistically 3-D not graphicaly), believable, and highly developed. Though rather polygonal and hard edged now, the graphics then were unbelievable. The cinemas in that game can still rival some of the graphics of todays games. Not many, but some. That, at least, is my opinion of it.

[Bolivar]

nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!

That just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.

i guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."

And how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?

Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics and pixels. Why not reduce everything else in the game to that as well then?

And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.

You suggested it's possible when you described how hard you were laughing at how someone liked Aeris' death. Which sounds like a pretty childish thing to do. No offense, but FFVII always seems to bring out the worst in what are traditionally good posters.

To say that Final Fantasy 7 was a insignificant step in Role-Playing Games would be like saying the discovery of DNA was an insignificant step in biology...well, maybe not that far, but you get what I mean. Before FF7 no one had seen this kind of RPG before in terms of artistic direction and setting (baring obscure, non-mainstream titles). FF7 was hugely successful partly because of it being part of the franchise (in Japan at least), but also because of how different it was. That FF7 sold as well as it did overseas despite the relatively unknown presence of the FF franchise in general in the consciousness of gamers must mean something, as does it's popularity. You don't become popular by sucking. However stupid the majority may sometimes be, most of the time they have a point, also taking into account that the average gamer is a lot pickier compared to a high-street music jockey.

In terms of it's merits and flaws it's obvious that it suffered from simplistic graphics (specifically character models), bad translation (PSX USA version) and a boatload of niggling bugs that really should have been stamped out (overflowing Vincent's Death Penalty, MDefense not counting towards your final total etc. etc.). In some ways its quite a sloppily made package. This can be attributed to a combination of not understanding the hardware and a speed to ship the game (but let's not forget Square have a history of lacking oversight in terms of their battle systems - FF6's infamous MBlock% bug anyone?). However what stands out for many is the storyline, which at the time of its release was the most unique selling point. Whilst previous RPG titles had delved into the idea of character development and arcing storylines, arguably FF7 contributed the most (in it's generation) towards pushing the medium along. It took cues primarily from the likes of film and television, two medium that have honed their visual narrative skills, and applied it to a complex and borderline metaphysical script (the nature of the self, cycle of life, dealing with rejection and depression - pretty heavy stuff).

As for what I think, FF7 to me is, along with all of the other FF's, a stand-out RPG no matter which way you look at it. To brush off its positive qualities outright due to its popularity is ridiculous. While I admit that the sheer popularity associated with the game can border on the insane (I see the compilation of FF7 to be grossly unnecessary creatively speaking), it doesn't put me off being subjective to it as its own product. As it happens it stands very well as its own product.


Originally Bespoken by PuPu
And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.
I think you misinterpreted the scene, and indeed the character of Aeris. She is less a person and more a symbol, specifically a symbol of the arcane and mystical. There are several attributes she possesses that separate her from the other party members; she's an ancient, she can communicate with the planet/dead, she has no real fear of death due to her knowledge of how life works, and most importantly her eventual role is that of a magical conduit through which the salvation of the earth, namely Holy, may be brought about. That no one else alive can do this makes her very important indeed. Its a gradual transition, and one so underplayed that many players miss it, and the game cleverly misdirects you by focusing on the apparently romantic entanglement between Cloud and herself. Post-death of course she takes her place as this mystical force, and solidifies this role in the animated film Advent Children. As for the scene itself, as I said before she has no real fear of death. Most likely she is more than aware of her untimely demise. Note she doesn't react to Sephiroth falling from the ceiling. Not a wince, not a single movement until the blade is driven into her. With all due respect, the power of this scene couldn't be recreated as effectively in a sprite-based environment. Comparing it to previous death scenes in the franchise and attempting to justify their superiority in terms of artistic direction is madness. Scripting and character development aside, the strength of the death scene of Aeris comes partly from the way in which it's play out, from the camera angles that show the death to the slow fades that lead to the Holy materia dropping into the water. Frankly this is something the pre-FF7 Final Fantasies would not have been capable of doing.

Very well put, and I think it outlines how some of us who think FFVII is a contendor or a clear shot winner of the "Best FF Title" actually do accept this game for its faults as well as its strengths. 7 is an obviously incomplete game, due to how rushed it was, but as Uematsu says, that's the one thing all FF's have in common, they're all incomplete.

Also, I realize and fully support the notion that better technology does not necessarily make a better game. It's what you do with that which does, and with this game Square was able to go above and beyond its previous games. Like Maxx Power said, the simple fact that there were different shots allowed the team to convey ideas and emotions in ways unattainable with previous hardware. The first 60 seconds of the game alone is something that would have been impossible on the Super Famicom/Nintendo.

II and V are among my favorite entries in the series, but I find it very hard to find a single category in which the previous installments were better than this one. Thus why I believe VI is easily the most overrated game in the series.

[PuPu]

You suggested it's possible when you described how hard you were laughing at how someone liked Aeris' death. Which sounds like a pretty childish thing to do. No offense, but FFVII always seems to bring out the worst in what are traditionally good posters.

I didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.

[Proxy]

FFVII is my Favourite but not the best, i dont consider any Final Fantasy the best because they are all brilliant in their own way.

The best what? Game? FF? Definitely the best Final Fantasy title, and would definitely be a contender for best game.

There.
Thank you. You two win this thread and the internet for having a brain.
ILU2!

[Lawr]

FFVII is my Favourite but not the best, i dont consider any Final Fantasy the best because they are all brilliant in their own way.

The best what? Game? FF? Definitely the best Final Fantasy title, and would definitely be a contender for best game.

There.
Thank you. You two win this thread and the internet for having a brain.
ILU2!

*cough*You're crazy!*cough*

[d£v!l'$ ph0£n!x]

ff7 is overated but brilliant nontheless. i preferred X though, that's probably my favourite . . . or maybe XIII .. ..

[aquatius]

It is the most overrated FF ever. Many people I have seen like it because it was their first FF they ever played. And the fact that it is so overrated makes people fail to see that it is actually the worst FF ever made.

Why is it the worst? Well, it was supposed thought to be a "revolutionary" game by many people, since it was the first ever FF in 3D. Though it just didn't give what was expected. The graphics were poor and they could have done a better job in my opinion, since FF8 came with much more improved graphics later. There's also the usage of four characters went down to three, which is ironic since FF7 was so much easier than other FF's before it. Not to mention Sephiroth was such a mediocre villain. Basically, I'm saying it is bad because it was supposed to be a huge change in FF, but I didn't think it really improved much.

The people who I hate more than the rabid fanboys/girls are the people who have to say that just because it is popular, it must be really, really bad.