double post!
You're the one talking crap, not me. All of your posts are solely your opinions without facts. Stop being arrogant and admit that you were wrong for saying that FFIX cannot be the best Final Fantasy.This is why I love the internet. You guys type out a full page worth of rebuttal and try to sound as intelligent as possible but you're really saying nothing to actually counter what I said. Like I said, a whole lot of nothing!
No. Just no.Baseless crap? I'm sorry that a person such as myself with a broader perspective and likely more experience in the series has angered a couple fan-boys that are so dedicated to a single game.
You have no idea how much Final Fantasy Ive played. You've no idea how much knowledge on Final Fantasys I have. Just to get things clear, I love FFVII, VIII and all the other FFs Ive played, but they are inferrior in most ways to FFIX in my opinion.
Idiot, Im a left wing evolutionist who uses evidence in my posts. Unlike you. All you're contributing is the repetition that FFIX isnt very good in certain aspects without saying why. You dont use facts, you just repeat statements that are false without addressing our replies.This is like the Mac vs. PC argument and I'm Linux. I never said FFIX was a bad game; I pointed out why it wasn't the best. If you hopeless romantic's could get over yourselves you'd notice I'm not exactly flaming the game. I could pull a near or equal list of flaws from just about any RPG really but that's not what this is about. I'm telling you flat out that Final Fantasy IX is very distant from being the absolute best of the Final Fantasy series and you have yet to actually correct me. You've answered facts with beliefs. You remind me of a traditional creationist almost.
And you're dodging the fact that sales figures are not correlated to quality. You dont judge a game based upon sales figures unless you're an imbecile. Oh wait, that explains a lot.When I question it's sales, you fail to respond but simply show me good reviews. Whoop de doo. It's a good game of course it got good reviews. 5 million copies sold? I hope so, it was a good game. But you're dodging the fact it still sold less than it's predecessors.
You toss aside the reviews as if they mean nothing, but I think that the reviewers know far more about games in general than you. You ignored the fact that two series pillars - two people who founded and made Final Fantasy what it is both call FFIX the best Final Fantasy ever. Yet you still seem to think that your opinion is the sole, correct, factual opinion despite what Sakaguchi and Uematsu say. Dont you think you're being a trifle arrogant?
Also, FFIX has the best music IMO.
I guess I was too subtle for you. My whole point is that every great game has cliches to some extent. You're calling FFIX out for them despite the fact that FFVII and VIII are full of them as well. Flawed logic my friend.When I point out it's nonthreatening and general cartoon-ish characters you bawk at the opposite for being too cliche' / recycled when you're really defending a game which was built on recycled ideas and the like. Hypocrisy that I know you didn't intend but managed.
I called it rubbish because it is rubbish. The chocobo quests are very rewarding giving powerful weapons such as Ragnorak which has the powerful ability shock. Defeating Hades is rewarding allowing you to see extra ending scenes and summon a new Ediolon.When I point out the lack of rewarding / good side-quests you call it rubbish. What sort of argument is that?
Mognet was entertaining but short (btw, its admit, not submit). Tetra Master I enjoyed - its my personal taste. Personally, I though Triple Triad was boring. And then you forget about the amazingly awesome Chocobo Hot and Cold side quest which you conveniently didnt mention. Compare that to FFVIII - what good sidequests did that have? The chocobos in FFVIII were unaccessible!There's a reason the game is as short as it is. Redundant, short, rather unrewarding side-quests. You cannot debate that without pure fallacy. The Tetra game was severely criticized and was a poor unrewarding attempt to mimic Triple Triad. Mognet, as you submit, was pretty bad. There's a couple optional bosses with little reward and there's the few ultimate weapons. Yay? I will one at a time go through at least 3 other FF games with both better, longer and more rewarding side-quests.
You seem to be focussing on sidequests, but those are not what makes FF great. What makes them great is a deep and involving storyline. I felt that FFIX had that for the aforementioned reasons. It deals with deep issues has interesting and varied characters and moods and generally gives an all round experience that few games can compete with.
Ehhhh...that whole post says absolutely nothing of value. Its just asserting your opinion without an ounce of evidence. I know Squall has annoying traits, as does Rinoa, but what really is terrible is the shoddy developement of their love. One minute Squall is saying that she's a loser, the next he's crying his heart out over her. Its poor, cliched character developement that seems forced and fake.When I point out characters you tell me I am confusing design with personality. You sir are confusing personality with design. I find their design juvenile most of all. Pardon the confusion. Personality I am not so much hawking on though I would award personality superiority to other FF games. Pay attention because I am not saying FFIX is weak in this aspect but it is not BEST. This is where your blind love for the game is angering and misguiding you. I'm not sure of your age and I'll try to be as little prejudiced as I can but as someone who was in my teens playing FFVIII and now in my 20's I can much better appreciate both the character and design of Rinoa and Squall. Personally I loved their story. It's common knowledge and criticism that Squall had some annoying traits but once again I'm not proposing he is the BEST main character. I don't believe it at all but Zidane and Garnet don't fit that bill either.
And you're the one still confusing design and personality. The design of a character does not make up the core part of the game. You see, unlike you, Im not shallow. I dont go 'Oooh that guys got a tail...thats not real...therefore that makes the game worse!'. That attidude is ridiculous. Especially seeing as its Final Fantasy.
Liar. I said you probably rushed through it. Big difference.Finally, when I say it's short you tell me I rushed through it. Big assumption.
Obviously I realise it requires more disc space, but to tell you the truth, I dont believe you. Each time I play through FFIX it takes around 70 hours. I think my statistics are more reliable than yours. Comparing that to other FFs, it's about the same - no matter what you think.You also say it doesn't take you much longer when you play through. Through and through I capped 50 hours into the game. A grand portion is also attributed to long conversation, cut-scene's and the like. Like I said the game was VERY good in terms of graphical presentation and environment. Add that to the clock. Expanding on that, you argue that somehow being 4-discs long attributes some sort of testament to it's length. I say once again: great graphical presentation and new age (at the time) RPG graphics makes for a LOT more disc space than we are used to so your argument here is entirely invalid right to the top of this paragraph.
I added the 4 disc point as an extra, and not as my key point. Way to go by ignoring the rest of my points and focussing on one tiny bit as if its the crux of my argument.
Hahaaa, you're funny. Its not the fact that you dont think its the best game in the series that annoys me. There are many reasons why people believe it to be the case. What really pisses me off about people like you is that you ignore other people's points and state false arguments. Just like I havnt tried imposing on anyone that FFIX is irrefutably the best game in the series, dont try imposing on me the reverse. It just makes you sound like an idiot.So I'll leave you with that. Try not to explode or break anything in your room. Final Fantasy IX is a great game. I boldly state it is not the best in it's series and with patience and calmness await rebuttal that makes sense rather than just mask length and wit as true argument.
FYI, I did notice that you ignored many of my previous points. Maybe if you learnt how to quote properly youd be able to address them all? Again, as with my previous post I've used facts to back up my arguments for the most part. Compare that with your posts and you'll realise that yours are severly lacking them. Try using direct comparisons instead of vague writings.
Oh, and your attempt to label me as unintelligent was poorly done. If you must know, my exam marks were one of the top in the country. And Im 16.
What Id now like to hear is an admittal that Im not out of my mind for believing that FFIX is the best game ever. I wonder whether you'll have the courage and sense to admit that. You try and sound reasonable except you make some very extreme comments. Maybe you are unable to cope with the concept of variance.
Finally, Ill leave you with this quote from FFIX. I think, in essence, it applies to you.
"Foolish. Picking fights with strangers in a place like this... I used to know someone like that. He was a loser... He refused to find beneficial ways to use his power. Instead, he'd seek out people to fight..." -Amarant Coral, FFIX
Ill leave you to remember who he was referring to.
Bolivar, I think you're wrong. FFXII is just a one off project from the FFT team. Matsuno and co. have left now and FFXIII is being made by Toriyama and Kitase and FFvXIII is being made by Nomura and Hashimoto. The styles of the new games will suit that of those who are making it - and thus the style will be very different from FFXII (in all probability). FFXII doesnt reflect the new direction that the series is heading in in an accurate or reliable way.On topic, I think its been the opposite with XII to me. When I first beat it i thought it was seriously lacking but enjoyed it alot the second time, after learning to accept it for what it is - the newest installment in the new direction FF is taking. Looking back it is a great game and i look forward to playing it again
Last edited by Vivisteiner; 11-20-2007 at 08:49 PM.
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
yo know ppl,theres now reason to kill anyone over this.lets get a third party opinion in this okay?final fantasy 9 is one of my favorites,10 being this #1.it's a great game,i spent 121 hours my first playthrough.i have played(and i own)every FF exept 3 and 11 and the one that came out 2007.i have been around FF since i was born and i have been playing since i was 3,and im 17 years old.FFlX is one of the best,but not THE best.every game has its flaws and every person has there opinions.to you,vivistiener,its your fav.game so of course you will say its the best,i undertsnad.just like i would say FFX is the best,because its my favorite.well,FFX isnt the best either,its just a matter of opinion.
I am a final fantasy fanatic,and i take pride on that.ff lX is among the best.top 3 i'd say,along with X and tactics.but to go as far and say that it is the best just out of opinion is wrong.lets make a poll shall we?
(SPOILER)waha made you highlight
Opinion wars are funny.
Hehe, they are funny.
The problem with Empower is that he thinks that Im factually wrong for believing that FFIX's best. He says that FFIX cannot be the best game in any sane person's opinion. Which is complete crap of course.
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
haha its just a game....
calm down peoples
^FFIX is more than just a game. Its a way of life.
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
^ See this is the reason I didn't reply once again. Your entire rebuttal was ridiculous and you're somehow calling mine opinion when it's really not. The only part I gave what is purely opinion on is what I actually liked about the game.Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Then you said my problem is: I think you're factually wrong - yet you say this from a point of where you are forcing that you are inarguably correct. It makes sense to me I guess; I knew I wasn't arguing with an adult by any means especially after your last tirade where you blast that despite your age you are superior blah blah and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Who's using and abusing opinion now?
Like I said, I have no further response on the subject of whether FFIX is not the best FF or not. You are clearly a devoted fanboy with an FFIX name, FFIX signature using FFIX quotes and defending your love to the death. I was a teenager and knew everything 5 years ago too.
The fact is nothing will come from this argument because it's a fact a person like yourself could not ever admit any sort of defeat much less consider an opposing view be it opinion or fact. You're a young, ignorant person that through the safety of the internet exhibits a very juvenile sort of self-boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado.
By the way if you're less than flattered about my seemingly presumptuous take on your character, don't be. I've spent years studying people and it will be my 9-5 job to know and understand them very well. So far you've proven me almost psychic but I'll leave the self flattery to you.
again ...... its a game
FF12 is officially terrible. Anyone who doesn't think so is probably in denial or just stupid.
How's that for an opinion and retrospective analysis?
There is no signature here. Move along.
And Shakespeare just wrote some plays. Doesn't stop people from debating their meaning and merit as literary works.
I'm not going to bother debating FFIX again (though going back to your sales argument one last time; Ico is one of the best games on the PS2, but it sold 50,000 copies. Sales mean nothing, especially when people are making threads in the FFIX forum saying they passed the game up because the main character had a tail^ See this is the reason I didn't reply once again. Your entire rebuttal was ridiculous and you're somehow calling mine opinion when it's really not. The only part I gave what is purely opinion on is what I actually liked about the game.
Then you said my problem is: I think you're factually wrong - yet you say this from a point of where you are forcing that you are inarguably correct. It makes sense to me I guess; I knew I wasn't arguing with an adult by any means especially after your last tirade where you blast that despite your age you are superior blah blah and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Who's using and abusing opinion now?
Like I said, I have no further response on the subject of whether FFIX is not the best FF or not. You are clearly a devoted fanboy with an FFIX name, FFIX signature using FFIX quotes and defending your love to the death. I was a teenager and knew everything 5 years ago too.
The fact is nothing will come from this argument because it's a fact a person like yourself could not ever admit any sort of defeat much less consider an opposing view be it opinion or fact. You're a young, ignorant person that through the safety of the internet exhibits a very juvenile sort of self-boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado.
By the way if you're less than flattered about my seemingly presumptuous take on your character, don't be. I've spent years studying people and it will be my 9-5 job to know and understand them very well. So far you've proven me almost psychic but I'll leave the self flattery to you.), though I am going to back Vivisteiner up on a point here that you are obviously missing in this whole argument which he has tried to convey multiple times.
Everything you've claimed to be a flaw with FFIX is personal opinion, yet you pass it off as fact. You seem under the belief that because you found some reviews and some other people who agree with your take that that somehow means it's a fact. Well I think Titanic was a huge pile of crap, but it won a lot of Oscars and a lot of people seem to like it, yet by your logic, since I know a lot of people who agree with my take on it it must be a fact that it sucks.
You take this high and mighty attitude that you are somehow more mature than anyone arguing in favour of FFIX, despite not being mature enough to realize that everyone has an opinion on a game and they can differ without necessarily being wrong. The same with books, movies, TV shows, etc. And when Vivisteiner tries to explain that point, you resort to name calling by saying he's immature and must be a child. You may try to disguise it in statements that sound halfway intelligent, but you're still being as immature as you claim he is when you do it. You argue that no one is bringing rebuttal with any substance behind it to counter your points, yet you never had any substance behind your points to begin with. You make statements like the game lacked a strong main character or villain, but never say why you thought Zidane and Kuja were weak characters. You say the side-quests aren't rewarding yet offer no reasoning behind this, even after Vivisteiner points out that you get much of the best equipment in the game from some of these sidequests. How does that make them unrewarding?
You see, I can see his problem with your argument; you claimed that what you said about FFIX was indisputable fact, when it obviously can't be. FFIX is a creative work and open to interpretation. Obviously yours differs from mine and Vivisteiners. Unlike you though I can at least accept that you don't like aspects of it (even if I do enjoy arguing about the points you bring up). Perhaps Vivisteiner said some things in the heat of the moment that he shouldn't have, but you've also proven yourself quite capable of the same thing you accuse him of.
No, it's opinion. Whether a character is "strong" or "weak" cannot be fact, because there is no quantitative scale on which to measure a character's personality. Even psychologists (you know, those people who study the mind and are paid for their opinions) cannot pass their ideas off as undeniable fact.
You can be wrong without him being right, you know. Just because your posts are filled with glorified opinions, backed up with no evidence and an annoying amount of text that isn't arguing the point at all but merely attempting to cast your opponent in a less favorable light, does not at all imply that Vivisteiner is right about all or any of his points about the game. You can both be wrong (although I am not judging Vivisteiner right now, and thus am speaking hypothetically).Then you said my problem is: I think you're factually wrong - yet you say this from a point of where you are forcing that you are inarguably correct. It makes sense to me I guess; I knew I wasn't arguing with an adult by any means especially after your last tirade where you blast that despite your age you are superior blah blah and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Who's using and abusing opinion now?
And you are clearly a self centered twerp who doesn't realize that even fanboys do actually have a right to defend that which they love, especially when the people discrediting it aren't offering any facts to support their views.Like I said, I have no further response on the subject of whether FFIX is not the best FF or not. You are clearly a devoted fanboy with an FFIX name, FFIX signature using FFIX quotes and defending your love to the death. I was a teenager and knew everything 5 years ago too.
Stop trying to make yourself sound smart, because you're terrible at it (I'm using the second definition of terrible there). Let's look at your sentence here: "You're a young, ignorant person that through the saftety of the internet exhibits a very juvenile sort of self-boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado." Let's take some time and analyze this. First, claiming he is young and ignorant is totally incorrect, because, as you yourself pointed out, this is over the internet and, unless you are an extremely capable identity thief, you cannot know his age, or what knowledge he does or does not possess. Second, arguing that he is exhibiting certain behaviour through the safety of the internet is a laughably ridiculous position to take, since you yourself are doing the exact same thing. Of course, you'll probably argue that you're not doing it because the internet offers safety, but for the hundreds of other possible reasons someone might want to post on here. Unfortunately, since you just picked the reason that suited your argument the most and ignored all others, I'm going to do the exact same thing. Any argument you could make to justify your behaviour could also be used by Vivistiener to justify his behaviour, which would mean that in order for you to do so you would have to admit you were wrong, which I doubt you'll do (you'll probably just sit down with a dictionary and thesaurus for five minutes and do your best to denounce my mental acuity. Good luck with that). Then we get to "exhibits a very juvenile sort of self boasting of". Your behaviour has been just as juvenile as his, if not more so, and all your precious work with your dictionary apparently failed to notice that the words "sort of" and "self" are wholly unnecessary and do nothing but increase your word count and make you look like a fool who doesn't actual understand any of the words he is using. Finally, we get to your last phrase "boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado", and this is the part where I actually cracked up. First, it's entirely inconsistent. Put down the dictionary and take an English class. If he is boasting of "A" and "B" that means he is boasting of both "A" and "B". So you're claiming he is boasting of his intelligence and bravado. Since you looked up what the definition of bravado is, you should have had no trouble realizing just how ridiculous that claim is. Also, believe it or not, you don't have to specify which definition of a word you are using. Even if you are doing it for your own reference purposes so that you'll be able to understand what you wrote, you should know that it does nothing but makes you look like an ignorant, pompous git.The fact is nothing will come from this argument because it's a fact a person like yourself could not ever admit any sort of defeat much less consider an opposing view be it opinion or fact. You're a young, ignorant person that through the safety of the internet exhibits a very juvenile sort of self-boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado.
Actually, claiming yourself to be almost psychic is in fact self flattery, so your last sentence is rather self contradictory. Some may argue that I'm indulging in personal attacks and flame wars, but in reality I'm trying to open your mind and help you to realize that hypocrisy and pseduo-wit are not the way to win arguments. Have a nice day.By the way if you're less than flattered about my seemingly presumptuous take on your character, don't be. I've spent years studying people and it will be my 9-5 job to know and understand them very well. So far you've proven me almost psychic but I'll leave the self flattery to you.
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The next person to point out something about a person in this thread gets a warning. Just don't make things personal, please. This isn't directed at any individual in particular, this is to everyone who has made some kind of personal slight towards anyone else in this thread. Stick to talking about the game and if you disagree with someone it isn't a reason to question their integrity, intelligence, etc.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
gyah,no one ever quotes me :-(.if you want to debate FFlX,do it in the FFlX thread please.if you all havent noticed,this is the final fantasy Xll thread.rules exist for a reason.
and to get off the topic of FFlX,what makes you think FFXll is such a crappy game,max power?
(SPOILER)waha made you highlight
i agree with looney bob
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