Why a lot of fans don't like this game *SPOILERS*

[Wolf Kanno]

*ignoring the IX vs. XII debate...*

Though I'm tired of this debate, I feel for the most part its actually been pretty good so I'll add my :twocents:

Music: Though I would agree that the soundtrack doesn't offer the sheer volume of memorable tracks like Uematsu's good soundtracks. I honestly feel the soundtrack is quite good and easily compliments the scenes. Maybe not in an emotional sense like Uematsu but at least in a immersive way. I never found the music to be distracting or boring. In fact most of my negative comments only happen when I stop playing the game and reflect back on it. But I do the same thing with the soundtracks of alot of games. Its truly rare that I remember a game soundtrack so I don't think much about it or let it ruin my gaming experience.

I also disagree with battle themes being intrical, since the few memorable tracks listed were situational tracks like "Battle on the Bridge". Until the Black Mages remixes, I never thought highly of any of the normal boss and battle themes in the series. Only specialty tracks like "Battle on the Bridge", "Man with the Gun", and the cool final boss themes were ever memorable. In fact, "Still More Fighting" is the only normal boss theme in any of the FFs I actually like. XII does have it's share of specialty boss themes that are memorable so for my personal taste it actually suits me.

Love Story: Good riddance, most of them felt tacked on or are horribly done. If you want good romance, I wouldn't look to FF to deliver it to you. I never felt it was a defining feature in the series but rather an annoying cliche I have to stomache through. Course this may have to do with the fact that my favorite FF's either don't have a love story or its just a side story that never overshadows the main plot. If you are going to have a love story in a story that isn't a love story, it should be in the background and not the main focus but this is just my opinion. Oddly enough, I am a hopeless romantic but FFs way of dealing with love always seemed shallow to me...

Random Battles: I like the battle system for the most part. I only miss random battles due to nostalgia sakes but not because I feel it lessens the gaming experience because I need them. The battle system was well done for the most part and though I feel it could be better in certain places (varying animations, more detailed gambit options, better spell visuals, and just greater variety overall) I feel its a wonderful starting platform for something greater. I would love to see the ADB system expanded upon and tinkered with. I think it could truly become something revolutionary. Also I would like to mention that I completely agree with BG-57 on the fact that treasure chests shouldn't be random drops

Plot and Characters: Lord knows I don't want to get into this one. Though I agree that a better expansion on the cast is welcomed, I feel the cast is quite strong and interesting for the most part. Its plot is not as deep as the standards put up by the teams previous works (Tactics and Vagrant Story) but I still feel its enjoyable and new to the main line of the series which never really properly dealt with stories about politics and social classes. It was a welcomed change IMHO.

The major flaw I find in the story is the pacing. I'll agree that the dungeons (or just getting to the dungeons) can get so long and tedious at times that the player begins to forget why they are there to begin with. Its not a big deal as long as your consistent, but if you have a nasty job or school or both; you can't exactly dedicate every free moment with playing. The game really could have used a story journal so you can read up on what has happened and check up on your characters personal situations (a la FFT).

These are just my opinions though...

[Vivisteiner]

There have been some intelligent posts after Empower's that I think have really said all that I want to say. Let me add my two cents as well.

^ See this is the reason I didn't reply once again. Your entire rebuttal was ridiculous and you're somehow calling mine opinion when it's really not. The only part I gave what is purely opinion on is what I actually liked about the game.

You didnt give me a single example of a fact you used. The reason?
Because you didnt use any facts. In the end, all your posts boil down to are your own personal opinions, which I disagree strongly with.

Then you said my problem is: I think you're factually wrong - yet you say this from a point of where you are forcing that you are inarguably correct. It makes sense to me I guess; I knew I wasn't arguing with an adult by any means especially after your last tirade where you blast that despite your age you are superior blah blah and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Who's using and abusing opinion now?

What Im trying to illustrate is that you fail to understand the simple concept that there is no one correct opinion. I said you're factually wrong for believing that no sane person can believe that FFIX is the best game ever, because you are wrong. That is a fact, because me and many others believe that to be the case and we are all sane, intelligent individuals. Say what you want, your opinions on my intelligence are baseless and without merit.

Like I said, I have no further response on the subject of whether FFIX is not the best FF or not. You are clearly a devoted fanboy with an FFIX name, FFIX signature using FFIX quotes and defending your love to the death. I was a teenager and knew everything 5 years ago too.

And your point is?

The reason Im a fan of FFIX is because I think its an amazing game, in a similar way to fans of Shakepeare believing him to be an amazing writer. Your paragraph is essentially a pointless waste of space. Maybe its just an attempt to show off about how observant you are.

The fact is nothing will come from this argument because it's a fact a person like yourself could not ever admit any sort of defeat much less consider an opposing view be it opinion or fact. You're a young, ignorant person that through the safety of the internet exhibits a very juvenile sort of self-boasting of intelligence and the 2nd definition of bravado.

I beg to differ. In actual fact I think its quite the reverse.

Say what you want, your words are meaningless and baseless. I think the very fact that you can label someone after only speaking to that someone only a couple of times says a lot of things about your personality. And to cap it all you dont even have any evidence to support your claims yet you make gross assumptions and ridiculous statements - you certainly wouldnt make a good scientist.

By the way if you're less than flattered about my seemingly presumptuous take on your character, don't be. I've spent years studying people and it will be my 9-5 job to know and understand them very well. So far you've proven me almost psychic but I'll leave the self flattery to you.

I've already pointed out the hippocracy and irony of your statements. Here's another example to add to the list.

Not to mention that you're actually shockingly wrong to the point of ludicracy. Truth be told, if someone fires you in the next few years I certainly wont be suprised.

[ff is da best]

this thread cracks me up

[Laddy]

While FFXII is a very enjoyable game, I was disappointed with its completely different turn from the series we know and love.

[Bolivar]

On topic, I think its been the opposite with XII to me. When I first beat it i thought it was seriously lacking but enjoyed it alot the second time, after learning to accept it for what it is - the newest installment in the new direction FF is taking. Looking back it is a great game and i look forward to playing it again

Bolivar, I think you're wrong. FFXII is just a one off project from the FFT team. Matsuno and co. have left now and FFXIII is being made by Toriyama and Kitase and FFvXIII is being made by Nomura and Hashimoto. The styles of the new games will suit that of those who are making it - and thus the style will be very different from FFXII (in all probability). FFXII doesnt reflect the new direction that the series is heading in in an accurate or reliable way.

I think you're confusing direction of the series with the direction of the next installment.

First of all, it's a little inaccurate to categorize FFXII as a "one off project from the FFT team." Many of the staff members of XII are veterans from FFX, such as the scenario writer, and several lead graphic and programming designers. Also, the executive producer of the project last made his appearance in the series as Director for FFII.

Not only that, but I'm not sure why you claim "Matsuno & Co." have left Squeenix - Matsuno seems to be the only one gone. The composer is freelance, and he recently assisted with Revenant Wings, so I'm sure he's going to contribute to more SE projects down the road. Also, the co-director, who received a bump up to director, seems to have popped up quite alot at the conferences for the game, talking about things like "when we make a Final Fantasy..." so I'm sure we'll be hearing more things from him down the line. Then there's Ito, who worked on the majority of FF's and will undoubtedly serve on more down the line. I think you get the point.

What I meant by new direction of FF, is that all the new installments seem to be very distinct from each other, as opposed to the first 9 which are in alot of ways fundamentally the same thing. Also, with FFXI and XII having very similar battle systems, it makes you wonder if this is the new direction FF is taking? Only time will tell, but I believe you are extremely mistaken for thinking that none of the contributors to XII will have any further influence on the series following XIII.

[Vivisteiner]

First of all, it's a little inaccurate to categorize FFXII as a "one off project from the FFT team." Many of the staff members of XII are veterans from FFX, such as the scenario writer, and several lead graphic and programming designers. Also, the executive producer of the project last made his appearance in the series as Director for FFII.

Not only that, but I'm not sure why you claim "Matsuno & Co." have left Squeenix - Matsuno seems to be the only one gone. The composer is freelance, and he recently assisted with Revenant Wings, so I'm sure he's going to contribute to more SE projects down the road. Also, the co-director, who received a bump up to director, seems to have popped up quite alot at the conferences for the game, talking about things like "when we make a Final Fantasy..." so I'm sure we'll be hearing more things from him down the line. Then there's Ito, who worked on the majority of FF's and will undoubtedly serve on more down the line. I think you get the point.

You have a point there. But in terms of storyline the games will be very different. Matsuno had his own way of telling a story whereas Nomura's is completely different. Also the character designers are different.

Sakimoto could contribute to more FF music, but thats going to be in a long time from now. Its going to be a long, long time before FFXIV is released.

What I meant by new direction of FF, is that all the new installments seem to be very distinct from each other, as opposed to the first 9 which are in alot of ways fundamentally the same thing. Also, with FFXI and XII having very similar battle systems, it makes you wonder if this is the new direction FF is taking? Only time will tell, but I believe you are extremely mistaken for thinking that none of the contributors to XII will have any further influence on the series following XIII.

Sure there will be many contributors continuing on but it is the lead figures who influence the game the most.
FFXIII
Yoshinori Kitase (game producer)
Motomu Toriyama (game director)
Kazushige Nojima (scenario writer)
Tetsuya Nomura (character designer)
Yoaka Amano (title logo designer)
Nobuo Uematsu (theme song composer)
Masashi Hamauzu (music composer)

FFXII
Yasumi Matsuno (original concept)
Akitoshi Kawazu (executive producer)
Hiroshi Minagawa (director)
Hiroyuki Itō (design director)
Daisuke Watanabe (scenario writer)
Hitoshi Sakimoto (music composer)
Yoaka Amano (image illustrator, title logo designer)
Akihiko Yoshida (character designer)

FFvXIII
Shinji Hashimoto (game producer)
Tetsuya Nomura (game director, character designer)
Yoko Shimomura (composer)
Yoaka Amano (image illustrator, title logo designer)

So I think my point still stands.

I do agree that FFXII contributors will still have influence but expect to see a very different style game. Also, the battling system for both upcoming PS3 games will be considerably different to XII.

However, Im sure they'll keep things that FFXII did well such as sprawling environments and the like.

[Loony BoB]

XIII, XII, XIII? *confused*

EDIT: Oh, vs.

[Vivisteiner]

^Yeah, sorry about that.

I really hate those signs for Yoaka Amano.

[Nifleheim7]

The game really could have used a story journal so you can read up on what has happened and check up on your characters personal situations (a la FFT).

I agree 100% on that.

[Roto13]

Yoshitaka Amano.

Tee hee.

[Bolivar]

Yoshitaka Amano.

Tee hee.

How!? OH wait, i see now that i quoted you...

[Vivisteiner]

^But do you take my point?

[Bolivar]

^But do you take my point?

Oh yeah definately. My meaning of 'direction' was more how the last 3 installments have been very different from the standard tradition that the first 9 had, and we can expect to see more experimentation and diversity in the future. I think what XII brought to the table that we'll definately be seeing is the breaking down of barriers, such as the use of the whole ADB thing.

But yeah, I agree with what you're saying. Every FF has a different creative direction, even the first 4, even with IV being a compilation of the initial trilogy.

[Karellen]

IV is a compilation? IX was a compilation of the first VIII, but I don't remember anything like that ever being said about IV.

As for FFXII and its influence, while FFXIII looks like it's going to have turn based combat and vXIII is going to use the Kingdom Hearts system (or something close to it), it looks like the whole 'real-time' encounters thing have made their way into White Knight Chronicles. So that's something, at least.

[EagleDelta1]

I noticed that music was mentioned as a complaint, the reason Nobou wasn't used was because the game was set in Ivalice and so they used the composer that had done the previous three games(FFT, FFTA, & Vagrant Story) set in the same world to keep continuity with the now named Ivalice Alliance.

I think I already saw this point made, but Matsuno(the Director of All the Ivalice games until FFXII:RW) seems to have a greater interest in politically themed stories where there isn't a clear cut villian all the time, which is very different from the previous main-stream FF directors. Before playing the game I took that into account and enjoyed the game all the more, escpecially all the little references to previous Ivalice games.