Why a lot of fans don't like this game *SPOILERS*

[VorpalCyberWolf]

All this talk makes me remember when I put rubberbands over O and the shoulder buttons in FFVII to constantly run away from battles so I could reach 2222 battles run away from and use lucky 7s on myself with Chocobuckle. Persheesh, where were gambits then? (Take home point: I feel the gambit system would have been more widely accepted if it had been implemented before. To me, it just feels like a more solid version of the Auto-Haste, Auto-Potion, Auto-Item, Auto-Regen, Final Attack-Revive skills and combinations that you have been able to use in other games.)

I admit a couple of the characters didn't get as well developed as they should, but thats not as uncommon as some may think, some characters never get as much screentime as they deserve.

I enjoyed the story just as much as I enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics, and I have to say I enjoy that game a lot. The fact that there were no random battled helped with that. I also liked the fact that it returns to the world of Ivalice, making for a better linked series than say, FFX-2 or Dirge of Cerberus...

I also agree that the music is fantastic, it's a wonderful score added to the resume of Hitoshi Sakimoto, I especially love the flare and stylizing he gave some of the Uematsu songs (Like Clash On The Big Bridge) he leaves the soul intact but the arrangement isvery effective.

[Roogle]

It's not the first time we've had a relatively pointless character as the lead. Tidus springs to mind here. I guess the "dumb/newbie" type of lead character is important, as they tend to ask the kind of questions you ask as a player.

I think that is a tempting trap for the story and character designers. It works better in Final Fantasy X than in Final Fantasy XII because Tidus interacted with the party more than Vaan interacted with the party; additionally, Tidus and Yuna became involved in a relationship, and Vaan and Ashe were nothing more than companions on the battlefield. I remember seeing various events in Final Fantasy XII that had Vaan, of all party members, in the sequence of events, yet he still felt like an outsider that shouldn't be there.

[Cloudane]

Yeah, that's true. I've already whinged that the characters never seemed to talk to each other or have that "happy little family" thing that the others tend to have

[Renatus]

1. Music

Answer: Sure, the music was weaker than Nobuo's. But I liked many other themes in it. Not up to Nobuo's high standard, but still decent enough.

2. Random battles

Answer: Random battles are less enjoyable to the battle system of FFXII IMO. Sure, they're fun as well, but the fluidity is just not the same. Im sure a lot of people will agree with me. FFXII's battle system is the best in any Final Fantasy.


4. Im not even gonna copy that down.

Answer: There is something called intelligence. And if you follow a story carefully enough, you'll understand it. Maybe not completely first time, but if you replay it, more and more of the pieces fit. And, as I know all too well, the story does make perfect sense. Sure, the character developement is lacking, but what is really interesting is the politics. The individual wills of the key figures in Archadia, Rozarria and Dalmasca and how they clash. You can pick these up with subtle references without them being spelt out to you like in FFX. (Dont get me wrong, I love that game). Although I do wish there had been a few extra cutscenes just to add a few extra elements to the story. Anyway, I thought the story was good.
.

The story is pretty simple, and was a little disappointing.

[Renatus]

Oh god, they've taken away something that's been plaguing RPG's games since the SNES era and further back. Damn you square for trying to do something different! For taking a stale random battle turned based system and changing it into an exciting battle system. YOU HAVE DONE WRONG. >=(

If anyone points out anything wasn't correct in that post, possibly the "since the SNES era", I don't give a crap, randomly guessing.

The battle system is pretty lame, not exciting.

[Raebus]

I think its exciting, your opinion does not change what I think and never will.

[Roxxas]

Final Fantasy 12 is one of the best in the series and alot of the main flaws imo can be gotten around easy.

1. For music just take all the old final fantasy battle/boss themes/whatever throw it together and put it on loop. I personally didn't like the atomospheric music and this works for me.
2. The plot is actually amazingly deep however its not all shoved in your face like other final fantasies. Talk to every npc you can see and I mean EVERYONE. Alot of them have interesting stories about there lives or add to the plot.
3. Never open a single chest until you get a guide on all the chests in the game and a diamond armlet. God the chest system is terrible but this makes it better.
4. If you really need your love story go read some of the terrible fan fiction that seems to be oozing out of the internets all over the place. Sure they are terrible love stories but then again so were most final fantasy love stories and no one seems to complain so it should be all good.
5. Most fights are easy so for a challenge on boss fights I jacked the speed up to max and chose the option where the fighting keeps going even when you look through the menu and played with one hand. And no gambits either you pansy.
6. Uhh don't know what to say about the battle system complaints. I thought it was a huge improvement. I guess if you really want random battles so bad you can close your eyes and slam the analog stick with your head until you hear battle noises.

[gjoerulv]

Actually I think the music is good. No NU material though. For gaming music overall it got a pretty high standard. The English voice-acting where leagues beyond what FFX managed to perform (talking English version).

The story isn't typical FF story or any other game story for that matter. It's more like a documentary on what happened in that age. The only time i was really disappointed was when they suddenly pulled out that Bahamut sky-ship thing. I felt like that came from nowhere. That and that there perhaps where too few cut scenes compared to playtime. That there wasn't much love doesn't bother me one bit.

As for the battle system I think it's one of the best Square ever pulled. The only itchy part is that everyone can learn everything, and that for some reasons most of the key gambits took quite some time to obtain, which is really just annoying. The esper system wasn't any good either. But random treasures is perhaps the most annoying. If you're just breezing through the game you wouldn't care, but if you try to obtain everything it's a major pain in the ass.
All those things above are fixed in the International version. Damn I want to play that.

The thing 'bout magic not being as effective as it should be is somewhat true. But that goes for most FFs.

[hhr1dluv]

I was one of those people who disliked FFXII. The first time I played it, I stopped when I first arrived at Eruyt Village because I felt no desire to continue. Yet, I gave the game another try...and I really love it. It might even be one of my favorites (although, I think I have to play ALL the FFs before I come up with opinions, my opinions keep changing dramatically as I play more of them).

Really, this game is AMAZINGLY deep for those who care to look. The bestiary and the NPCs (as others have said) provide a wealth of information about Ivalice. As for the lack of a love story, that's another thing that can be satisfied by talking to NPCs... I'll admit, you don't really see relationships growing in this game (unless you like Balthier/Ashe ::shrugs). Rather, many of the couples are already established before the game begins. At that point, you just kind of see what the NPCs say about the couples and you watch how the pairs interact with each other and that's cute enough for me.

Music-wise...well, I like the music. So, that's not a bother for me. Uematsu's scores, especially as the series progressed, were always filled with songs that I loved and songs that were forgettable. It's the same thing for me with the FFXII soundtrack.

Battle system-wise: this game has my favorite system.

Overall, as others have said, I believe the game's main flaw is in its pacing. But, I don't really think that's a big deal. Somehow, it feels less jarring to have loads of battles and side quests jammed in throughout the title than to have ALL the extra stuff stuffed in at the end (FFX).

[Wolf Kanno]

For the characters and their "non-conformity to being a big happy family" I feel its just silly to believe a party has to be close-knit and I found it quite amusing to watch the party have this "professional distance".

Basch is a soldier his duty is to protect Lady Ashe, not to be a big brother figure to Vaan and Penelo. Lady Ashe is of royal decent, she shouldn't even be consulting with a national traitor, two criminals and low-class orphans. Course our Sky Pirates are wanted criminals and have their own personal agenda's for being there. The Kids are tagging along cause lets be serious, if you had the choice between joining a ragtag group of adventureres to save a kingdom or stay home where you can eke out a living in the slums, which would you choose?

I think what many fans fail to see is that XII is steeped in a sense of realism and Ivalice is built around the social-political world of Europe in the Middle Ages. Yes the party shared an intimate adventure together but you need to understand they also have social constraints that they still abide by do to being raised in such an enviroment. Its made the most clearly in the ending to the game. Its not so simple but every party member did stake something from the experience if you look carefully.

Fran, Vaan, and Penelo exist as symbols so there role is important to the story. Vaan, exists as a realistic form of the "coming of age" stories. He starts the story by hoping to avenge his kingdom and despises the Archadians. By meeting the party and seeing the world, Vaan realizes that the world isn't as black and white as he first imagined. He grows and realizes that his original perspective is wrong and learns to have a more realistic bearing on the world. This pretty much occurs about a 1/4 of the way into the story.

Now here is where the story takes an interesting turn. Vaan doesn't have some grand "epiphany" that makes him capable of handling the burden of saving the world. Instead he falls into the background and remains still somewhat innocent. He continues to grow though not in grand leaps and bounds like most stories foolishly make you believe is possible. In the beginning of the story, Vaan is a foolish idealistic kid, at the end he's still an idealistic youth with foolish intentions at times but he's definetly wiser. He didn't mature into an adult like other protagonist you see and I respect Matsuno for taking such a realistic view of this.

Penelo is important cause of her relationship with Larsa. This relationship shows that the hope of reconciliation between Dalmasca and Archades is possible. There is a few pivotal exchanges between Basch and Lady Ashe that stress this point.

Fran, I feel could have been expanded on more but, she ties in more to the backstory of the Viera leaving the Wood to see the world. A symbol of the sacrifice needed sometime to achieve freedom. Her role is more important to the story if you talk with the NPCs (Omg, NPCs that actually further the plot beyond telling you where to go next?! What a concept...) concerning this plot thread. It has no resolution but then again, when does a change in cultular(sp?) values ever have an end in the real world?

[Elias_the_Belias]

i recently restarted ffX. in the first very battle i unterstood that it wasn't a ff game.FFXII is more realistic as a story (not an ancient evil power woke up to destroy the world and vannish all people and living beings). the world is much bigger (it will take you a lot of time to explore it entirely) the towns and people are better designed.i was walking with Tidus in Luca and i saw the difference(he was like running in slow motion). if you think fighting 1 monter is boring then run to gather 10 monsters (i don't think that is boring). who needs love??? it's very difficult to make a game intresting without love and a super powerfull ancient evil monster to destroy. FFXII is VERY intresting without any of those above. i love FFs. The first i played was FFVIII then FFX and now FFXII. i think FFXII is a step forward and i hope the next series will be in this style.The only think i miss from the previous series is the Card Mini-Game. it was fantastic. i hope i will see that again in the coming games with more cards. oh and more usefull espers (aeons, summons, guardian forces as you like). Espers are useless. the only moment you 'll need an esper is to open the door to giruvegan. lol. aeons in the other hand was the best way to get an advantage in a battle (powerfull , character don't take damage, beautiful ...).MUSIC: i didn't buy FFXII to listen to music. i bought it to play it. the music is a positive addition but i will not die if it's not good.I hope only for the best. FF for ever

[Roogle]

For the characters and their "non-conformity to being a big happy family" I feel its just silly to believe a party has to be close-knit and I found it quite amusing to watch the party have this "professional distance".

I agree. This type of interaction was a lot different than characters from the other games.

I thought that it was a refreshing change, but I think that it should have been expanded upon even if there was nothing to expand it. I hated climbing Pharos for dozens of floors with no interaction from the party members whatsoever, as it made me feel like they were characters in a game rather than characters in a story.

[Roxxas]

For the characters and their "non-conformity to being a big happy family" I feel its just silly to believe a party has to be close-knit and I found it quite amusing to watch the party have this "professional distance".

I agree. This type of interaction was a lot different than characters from the other games.

I thought that it was a refreshing change, but I think that it should have been expanded upon even if there was nothing to expand it. I hated climbing Pharos for dozens of floors with no interaction from the party members whatsoever, as it made me feel like they were characters in a game rather than characters in a story.

I kind of think the silence at Pharos was intended to enhance the the interactions when they DID come. The dramatic build up if you will. I know the whole time I was climbing the tower I was thinking omg omg when is something gonna happen then BAM plot exploding outta everywhere. It felt sort of fitting.

[Dr. Acula]

I agree with the "professional distance" thing, that makes a lot of sense. I still wish the characters interacted just a little more though, so as to expand that.

[Egami]

After finishing X for a second time a couple of weeks ago I decided to start FF XII again. When I first played the game in 2006 I had a 70+ hour file but lost the memory card before finishing the game. Discouraged I simply shelved the game and didn’t bother to start again until recently. I am playing it right now and I am at Giruvegan so far…I am having as much a blast as I had the first time around.

SPOILERS may lie ahead…

Music
The OP asks which songs are memorable from FFXII. I think that quite a few of the tracks are amazing and memorable. I have the soundtrack and the Esper Battle, Boss Battle, Loop Demo and Battle for Freedom are ones I have listened to regularly for more than a year. In fact, just as the first time I played it, almost every time that I start up the game now, I let it run the intro before loading just to hear the song. I love it. As I am writing this post, the theme from Tchita Uplands is stuck in my head, it is very catchy and so are many of the other songs such as the theme of the Mosphoran Highwaste, which is awesome too.

Overall I think the soundtrack is superb and complements the game rather nicely. Granted, not all tracks are memorable or even good, but such is the case for every other FF.

Ran<st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>m Battles
Some have complained about the lack of ran<st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>m battles but I think that this is one of the main things which make FF XII such an engrossing and enjoyable game. The battle system of FF XII is amazing and to my mind, the best thing to happen to the series. No more shaking screen and taking you out of the field into a “boxed” combat ring and then back again into the field after a transition, victory dance and dialogue box. Seriously, what fun is watching the same victory dance and listening to the same music every time you end a battle for over 40-60 hours? It gets tiresome after a while and is very time consuming. I find that it also detracts from the experience and makes one lose interest in exploring the area. This system is also very static; your characters as well as the enemies are fixed in the same position, effectively limiting your free<st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>m when it comes to battling enemies and limiting the possibilities of planning strategies to fight them.

I think that FF XII <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>es away with all the issues of the previous system by preserving all of its best elements and none of its flaws and also by adding some online RPG elements as well. Now exploring and fighting are seamless, you are as free to move around when you are fighting as you are when you are exploring. You can now see the enemies and decide to engage them or if the enemy is too strong, seek a different route or prepare yourself first. While fighting, the ability to move behind the enemy and pincer them is nice as it allows you to evade some of their attacks. Moving away from them a bit is also useful, for example, a monster that readies to cast Thundaga in the party leader will hit all allies in range but if you move the character away from your allies it won’t hit them.

The gambit system is worth gold in my opinion. By allowing you to set up your characters to perform specific tasks automatically, it allows <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> away with the repetitiveness of the previous system and also makes your characters feel alive and gives you a sense that you truly are traveling with companions instead of a group of characters that <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>n’t <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> anything until you input some command. It also <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>es away with the one at a time form of battle that was the form of the previous system, where only one character could act at a time, something which is very unrealistic and far less exciting than what is the case here.

Once you know an effective way of defeating the foes in the area, you can set up a gambit so that your characters <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> it automatically. For a flying creature that is weak to ice you can set up your characters to automatically cast Blizzaga on it and it will save you the need to select 6 or even 8 times the same command targeting the same creature.

All this makes the task of going through an area to get to a certain location a lot of fun, despite the length of the different areas. It also invites you to explore the vast world of the game. I always like to complete the whole map before moving out to the place I am going to and it <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>esn’t feels boring but quite fun, at least to me.

This brings me to another point, just as the new battle system invites you to explore the world, so too the game lets you explore it. Compared to say, FF X, which is incredibly linear, so much that you are actually prevented from entering any other place until you get the airship, in FF XII you are told you need to go to a given area but you are mostly left on your own to get there. You can decide how to get to that area, via chocobos, airships, gate crystals or even by foot or you can stop for a while and decide to explore other unknown areas. The game <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>esn’t forces you to follow a rigid straight line but gives you the free<st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>m to move at your own peace. I think this is a very positive thing and quite refreshing as well.


Where is the love?
I <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>n’t see a problem with the lack of a central love story and think it was quite a refreshing and much needed change for the series. While there is no in your face love story in FF XII, some relationships such as the one between Ashe and her husband, Gabranth and Drace, and perhaps even Balthier and Fran while subtle an brief were well executed and believable.

This brings me to the characters. The first time I played the game when I bought it, the thing that stood out the most to me was the strong and marked personality that characters such as Balthier, Ashe and Basch have. From Balthier’s witty personality and intriguing background, Ashe’s struggle when it came to the power of the stone was rather touching, especially when she is asked about it and Bash’s loyalty and cool despite his troubled past, I enjoyed then and have enjoyed now every moment when they get some screen time. While Vaan and Penelo <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> not take center stage, I like the way in which they grow up and mature as they explore the world, especially Vaan who gets more confident and determined and overall sounds more like a “sky pirate” everyday. Penelo is perhaps the one with the less exposure of the group but the bits when she takes the stage such as during her conversations with Larsa, while she is being held captive and her exchanges with Vaan at the beginning are memorable. Fran is also very good and always has something useful to say when she speaks. Her background of leaving the forest and her sisters behind yet coming back to meet them after 50 years was quite moving.

The NPCs have interesting and relevant things to say for a change. There is much you learn about the gameplay, locations and the story from them.

Story
While it is true that the pacing of the game, as far as it's story goes, is not it's strongest point, I do find the story of FF XII interesting and involving. While simple, the story is wide in scope and epic. The parties involved both good and bad (if such lines can really be drawn) are all interesting and are developed sufficiently to allow the player to know and understand them and their motivations. I liked in particular the internal conflict there was within the empire and the judges, how some wanted Vayne while others preferred Larsa and the struggle of their father to choose between his role and his sons. The state of the people who lived in Lowtown in Rabanastre and how the soldiers treated the merchants as seen in one of the opening scenes really puts you on the same page with Vaan, who wants to take back what is theirs from the empire and reclaim their free<st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName>m and motivates you to <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> so. The same goes for Ashe, who lost so much to the empire yet is torn between revenge and peace, what would one <st1:PersonName w:st="on">do</st1:PersonName> were one in her shoes? I think that when one looks at the story of FF XII through the viewpoint of each character, it is rather interesting and many sides of the same plot are revealed and it is when taking all those viewpoints together that the story reveals its epic nature. One cannot look at the story apart from the characters or vice versa.


Overall
As should be obvious by now, I like FF XII, no…I love it. With its exciting battle system, engrossing and vast world and memorable characters, it is easily the best FF I have played since FF VI and by the looks of it, it will end up rather close to the top of the list of my favorite RPGs. The only weakness I see in this game is that the flow of the story is a bit slow due to the large amount of exploring/fighting that one has to go between the different scenes. It could have been a bit more balanced in that regard, yet, I think that given how much fun it is to fight and explore and how involved one gets in developing and configuring the characters, that one can easily overlook this minor issue.


Egami