The Location of Dream Zanarkand

[Firo Volondé]

the only person that went to the DZ from Spira was auron. and well he's unsent so dose that have anything to do with going back and forth?

That has everything to do with it, Auron implies shortly after revealing to Tidus that he is unsent that it was only because he died that he could travel to DZ, possibly because unsents have immunity to the toxin. Also, citizens of DZ seem to be able to use Sin as a ferry as well. I would say anyone else who tried that stunt would be badly affected by the toxin or killed by Sin's gravity attack.

Sorry to drag the discussion back, but I'm not convinced by the explanations for DZ people not leaving.

I've wondered this for a little while, but if the people of DZ have their own will to do what they want (which we can clearly see in the game), then why have they never tried to leave their island?

Why do fish stay in the water? It doesn't occur to them to do otherwise. Even with free will, their island is the border of their world. It never occurs to them to leave, it doesn't occur to them that there is anything beyond there. They have their world, and their thoughts are tied to that world.

Look at it this way: most of the time when you dream you aren't aware that you're dreaming. You simply accept the reality and boundaries of the dream without question.

People are not fish and as for dreams the DZ people believe theirs is real so its no different to real life. Jecht did leave and people did notice (Tidus memories show this), even if they mistakenly thought he died.

I think a nearer comparison than the Matrix is the Truman Show.
For a while you can fool people not to leave the "bubble" they are in, but not for ever, and not for 1000 years.

Yevon could have made the citizens of DZ any way he wanted, since he was their creator. Obviously, if they believed they were in the real Zanarkand, they would leave DZ to search for Bevelle, and be too difficult to control while maintaining Sin. His only goal was to keep DZ alive forever; this would be easiest if the citizens didn't wonder about the outside world.

I think (I haven't seen it in ages) that Truman needed a trigger to consider leaving the bubble. That trigger was a workroader he met never met saying "Goodbye Truman". However, Tidus knows that Auron is not a native of DZ, but since he's content to spend the rest of his life in Zanarkand, the trigger obviously has no effect on people in DZ. If the creators of The Truman Show (the show within the movie, not the movie) had been able to mould Truman the way YY moulds the citizens of DZ, he never would have questioned his universe.

[Juggernaut]

During the single elephant-thing ride. (Eleshoo or something) Wakka says something about a city on the water. It was destroyed, apparently. Could that be what we are talking about?

[BG-57]

No, it's just a random drowned city to show how much damage Sin has wrought to Spira over the years. Similar to the deep fissures in the Calm Lands.

As for the dream logic of Zanarkand to be within the dream is not the same as watching the dream from the outside. Of course they think of their existence as 'real', but that doesn't mean they accept the same rules of life in the dream as they would while awake. At any rate DZ did exist in isolation for 1000 years, so to say it couldn't is a moot point.

[abrojtm]

I just figure some sort of summoned magical barrier/thick fog prevents citizens of DZ from leaving and citizens of Spira from finding DZ.

[cally777]

I think a nearer comparison than the Matrix is the Truman Show.
For a while you can fool people not to leave the "bubble" they are in, but not for ever, and not for 1000 years.

Yevon could have made the citizens of DZ any way he wanted, since he was their creator. Obviously, if they believed they were in the real Zanarkand, they would leave DZ to search for Bevelle, and be too difficult to control while maintaining Sin. His only goal was to keep DZ alive forever; this would be easiest if the citizens didn't wonder about the outside world.

I think (I haven't seen it in ages) that Truman needed a trigger to consider leaving the bubble. That trigger was a workroader he met never met saying "Goodbye Truman". However, Tidus knows that Auron is not a native of DZ, but since he's content to spend the rest of his life in Zanarkand, the trigger obviously has no effect on people in DZ. If the creators of The Truman Show (the show within the movie, not the movie) had been able to mould Truman the way YY moulds the citizens of DZ, he never would have questioned his universe.

You're right, he did need a trigger! So what could have triggered Jecht into leaving DZ? Not Auron obviously (though he could have triggered Tidus).

There is another kind of being able to appear in any part of Spira at least to those who can see them (Summoners and DZ people?) The Fayth. The Fayth wanted to end Yu Yevon's control over them. A Fayth talks to Tidus even before Auron does.

So maybe it was the Fayth that guided Jecht through whatever barriers Yu Yevon had set up around DZ (to answer my own question).

. At any rate DZ did exist in isolation for 1000 years, so to say it couldn't is a moot point.

Obviously, but the point is why? If we knew more about how and why Jecht left DZ it would help.

[Tavrobel]

For a while you can fool people not to leave the "bubble" they are in, but not for ever, and not for 1000 years.

Tell that to the Church, because people can be fooled. For many, many years, people used to think that the world was flat, the Sun revolved around the Earth, and that Jesus was white.

The Earth is round (or as close as a giant mass of molten rock can be). The Earth revolves around the Sun in an elliptical orbit, even though "sunset" and "sunrise" are still used to describe the day. He's black. Think about it.

During the single elephant-thing ride. (Eleshoo or something) Wakka says something about a city on the water. It was destroyed, apparently. Could that be what we are talking about?

Random drowned city. Explains the massing of pyreflies in the vicinity of the Moonflow, because the city was built on a swamp/bridge-like construction, and it sank/fell, whatever your justification is. Fandom often treats this area as the city in which Yojimbo was formerly housed.

Obviously, but the point is why? If we knew more about how and why Jecht left DZ it would help.

It was an accident. The game says that he was out in the ocean practicing one day when he got polterpwned. Sin can carry anyone to and from the mainland Spira. Seeing as he is a giant blob of blob, he floats, he swims, he sings, he even solves crimes with Horatio in his spare time.

[cally777]

For a while you can fool people not to leave the "bubble" they are in, but not for ever, and not for 1000 years.

Tell that to the Church, because people can be fooled. For many, many years, people used to think that the world was flat, the Sun revolved around the Earth, and that Jesus was white.

Sure, but that's not quite the same as tellling people its not worth leaving the city. That would be easy to check. It needed some guts/intelligence for someone to work out that the world isn't flat.

Obviously, but the point is why? If we knew more about how and why Jecht left DZ it would help.

It was an accident. The game says that he was out in the ocean practicing one day when he got polterpwned. Sin can carry anyone to and from the mainland Spira. Seeing as he is a giant blob of blob, he floats, he swims, he sings, he even solves crimes with Horatio in his spare time.

Hang on, as I remember it, we only have Tidus account of what people said about his father's disappearance. Unless I missed something, neither Auron, Braska or, most importantly, Jecht, tells exactly how he, Jecht, reached the mainland. It could have been an accident, but then ask yourself, only one accident in 1000 years? Maybe, but I prefer my theory that it was the Fayth.