How FFXIII & FFVersusXIII aim to remain in FFXII's critical shadow

[Silvercry]

As an aside, am I the only one who isn’t impressed by the graphics shown in the trailers? Not because they aren’t good - they are - but because awesome graphics are pretty much the Standard these days. With gaming consoles as powerful as they are (yes, even the Wii) there is no longer any excuse for a game not to look simply freaking amazing. Amazing has become the new average. I'm dying to find out how XIII and Vs. XIII actually play. What are battles like? How important is NPC interaction? Is there non-linear storytelling? Is exploration encouraged in a open world (ie, FF XII?) or am I forced down "pretty hallway" of zones (ie: FF X or KH?)? Will they use the capacity of blu-ray disks to do more than throw some pretty graphics and voice acting at me? How about branching story line points, complete with fleshed out consequences that actually change the way the rest of the game plays out (think Mass Effect only much, much better). These are the things I wonder about when I think of FF XIII. Not how great it looks. That's pretty much a given.

[Hazzard]

As an aside, am I the only one who isn’t impressed by the graphics shown in the trailers?

I think you're the only one...:rolleyes2

[Pure Strife]

Big mature story about empires at war that touches on modern day and historical issues surrounding international conflict? No thanks, couldn't care less.

If I want real life, I'll go outside. If I want empires at war, I'll read a history book. If I want in depth, (debatably) well thought out, technical music I'll go and see what Dream Theater are doing nowadays.

I have a life, a job, friends, a girlfriend, and all the stresses that come along with that. When I sit down to zone out I want to be a badass, sullen hero. I want explosions. I want over the top battle animations where someone flies around with a sword and rains comets on someone. I want cheesy 80's style speed metal playing over everything. I want daft stories, and attractive women in minimal amounts of clothing.

Real life is great, but I like my Final Fantasy to be just that - total outrageous fantasy. Where the characters actually get proper development. No matter how cheesy it is. Unlike XII. So the more like the PS1 era games this is (in story, I liked FFXII's gameplay) this is, the happier I'll be.

[VeloZer0]

Wow, that was very well put. Though I do find it easier to get involved in a more in depth story I completely agree with the gist of your point.

[Markus. D]

It always amazes me how some people are so eager to condemn something that they barely even know about...
Please leave us common fools to enjoy the cliches of every Final fantasy that wasn't created by Matsuno.

For the win~ in other words.

[Mr Cactuar]

Matsuno Yasuno's FFXII is when Final Fantasy grew up--boldly evident in it's art direction, but most conspicuously in it's narrative. It was a narrative flushed with florid, even occasionally literate, dialogue, a story arc concerned with political intrigue and worldly repercussions rather than the vanity of a girl-boy-girl love triangle, and a manner of characterization and direction that placed greater value in nuances of expressiveness rather than the gauche, teenage bravado and superficiality of Tidus, Cloud, Squall, or any of their similar spawn. A Final Fantasy without Matsuno (FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, or FFXII) is akin to a Jerry Bruckheimer production but with a Dawson's Creek ethos slathered in, very thickly.

Wow. It never ceases to amaze me how the people that love FFXII are so shallow when it comes to their 'narrative'. I;m not going to begin writing about all the problems with FFXII story-wise but I will say this. Just because it is a story about 2 big warring nations, and filled with shallow political intrigue, it does not make it 'mature'. The FFVII compilation and its character development and deep story, amazing characters FFX with its great chracter development, turning Tidus from a whiny boy into a man willing to accept his fate, its story of a corrupt religion, FFVI and its great characters, the insane Kefka, Kingdom Hearts and its 'childish' nature still but a mature story nonetheless teaching good morales, these are 'mature' stories. I cannot see how anyone can truly believe FFXII to be so 'mature' when nothing is properly explained to you and everything is squandered and in my opinion made to look 'mature'.

While FFXII eschewed the teenage melodrama and ungainly storytelling of recent and past Final Fantasies, it also melded the best in western and Japanese RPGs and did away with long outmoded mainstays and annoyances in both: no more random battles or time wasting end-battle EXP/gil summary screens; seamless integration of exploration and battle modes creating an amplified sense of immersion; a choice to micro- or macro-manage battles allowing for leisurely or frantic fighting via the Gambit system; the creative synthesis of single player RPG and MMORPG mechanics; a 3D camera control allowing for full view of Ivalice's grandeur, again adding to the immense sense of immersion; a strong female lead (Ashe is inarguably the lead) who is neither feeble nor whiny nor a submissive stereotype; locales (especially the metropolises) that felt alive with the denizens and not a static contrivance of NPCs. The innovations, evolution, and discarded conventions are considerable. FFXII is not without its faults, even though it's one of only six games to get a perfect rating in Famitsu (not that Famitsu still holds value for everyone), but it does represent the first time Final Fantasy can be considered entertainment for more than mostly kids and teenagers. Along with games like FF Tactics, Ico, Bioshock, and Half Life 2, FFXII is one of those rare times where a video game has a story to tell that won't make you blush too much. It's not on par with finer cinema or literature, very far from it, but at least it displays an ambition to get there someday.

For the gameplay areas I have this to say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the 'great gambit system and great battle system' is horribly flawed with how goddamn easy it makes things. I want some sort of challenge when I play a game, and I only died once in the entire game, when I attacked one of those sand dinosaurs. Judge Bergan almost killed me too, but that was about it. A monster in the field never came close to killing me because I was always fighting 1 monster at a time and this was all without using a quickening, let along a quickening chain, once. That would have made it even easier then it already was. The license board was ok, despite have no real reason for being there.

How is Ashe a great lead? She had to be told what to do all the time and could never make up her own mind. She is definitely a submissive character.

Those who dislike FFXII are likely to enjoy FFXIII. It's a return to the maturity level before Matsuo came in; a return to the cliches of a vapid but sullen hero with an elemental name (Lightning meet Cloud) and a farcically huge sword, zippered sportswear and asexual garments, and--because of the staff involved--a story that might rival FF7-10 in it's attempt to perfectly mirror a Ben Affleck summer blockbuster with inconsequential love interest and inconsequential ass kicking of inconsequential baddies who are equally as vapid as the hero and his love interest.

Again, I fail to see how having flying airships battling eachother and a bunch of warlords in massive, unrealistic, suits of armour makes the game more mature. We have been told already that Lightning is not the protaganist of FFXIII and that that is not her real name in the game, it is a code name. Also if you truly understood FFVII and FFX then you would know that what you have just said is completely incorrect. What you have said sounds like a very childish take on FFVII-FFX, that you have missed important things, and that opinion is often the fanboy/fangirl that people dislike (OMGS ITS CLOUD AND TIDUS OMFG).

And yet inspite all that, I am completely hyped for FFXIII. FFXII's art director, Kamikokuyrou Isamu, is XIII's art director and as the trailer's have revealed, Isamu's breathtaking baroque aesthetic seems to have tempered the plastic, futuristic-sacharinity and over-simplicity of everything that Nomura Tetsuya touches--ostensibly the character designs are still very Nomura. The worlds the trailer briefly unveils looks like something I wish to immerse myself in. The music sounds as captivating, though not as ornate, as Sakimoto's FFXII score. So while my expectations for the direction, story, dialogue, and voice acting remain low, the art direction, music, and gameplay adequately retains my considerable interest and excitement.

Tetsuya Nomura is a fantastic character designer, FFXII's score is decent, but forgotten due to no Uematsu or known battle theme and I generally agree and disagree with this statement.

As for FFVersusXIII, the music in the trailer while competent does sound a bit like a poor man's opera--watered down for an audience that doesn't know of Bellini or Puccini. The game itself looks dreadfully Nomura. If FFXII is an indictment of the maturity level of previous Final Fantasies and FFXIII a tearing down of the maturity level FFXII had achieved, FFVersusXIII looks to abolish all adult ambitions by winning the hearts of the demographic not quite old enough to get a driver's license--or those who enjoyed Kingdom Hearts. I don't know if I have the patience for a main character more sullen than a Prozac-popper on Medicare and so exceedingly self-absorbed he wears all black cause he thinks it's slimming.

Again, what is wrong with Nomura? Also no-one is making you play any of these games so why can't other people enjoy it, and these sort of games, and not you? People have different tastes. I have a drivers license, I enjoyed Kingdom Hearts, does that make me a bad person? Does this make me have bad taste in games? I enjoyed what you call mature games such as Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Half Life and Bioshock, and I agree that they are also 'mature' games, but this does not stop the FFVII and FFX from being mature.

I like the look of FFXIII, it looks absolutely insane, and I 'enjoyed' FFXII. While I was in the end, not thrilled with it, I cannot say that I don't believe it wasn't $100 well spent.

[Roto13]

Tetsuya Nomura is a fantastic character designer

No. Just... no.

[Vivisteiner]

^Hey! Thats my phrase.


Mr Cactuar, I sort of agree with your maturity arguments, apart from Kingdom Hearts. Your argument lost some of its credibility in my eyes when you added that to the list. Anyway, I dont think all stories should be that mature. While FFX was less mature, it was still fun.

(Forgets laughing scene...god, it burns)


And I thought FFXII's gameplay was best. I mean, I completed FFVII, FFVIII and FFX only dying around twice on average. At least in FFXII I died quite a few times.


About Nomura, I think he ranges from very good to why-doesn't-SE-just-get-a-new-smurfing-character-designer-instead-of-that-boring-unoriginal-piece-of-turd.

[Mr Cactuar]

^Hey! Thats my phrase.


Mr Cactuar, I sort of agree with your maturity arguments, apart from Kingdom Hearts. Your argument lost some of its credibility in my eyes when you added that to the list. Anyway, I dont think all stories should be that mature. While FFX was less mature, it was still fun.

(Forgets laughing scene...god, it burns)


And I thought FFXII's gameplay was best. I mean, I completed FFVII, FFVIII and FFX only dying around twice on average. At least in FFXII I died quite a few times.


About Nomura, I think he ranges from very good to why-doesn't-SE-just-get-a-new-smurfing-character-designer-instead-of-that-boring-unoriginal-piece-of-turd.

What I meant about Kingdom Hearts was that it can definitely be observed as a kids game, but older, maturer people can like the game as well, but not in the same way as an older, maturer person would like Super Mario 64.

And if you're trying to tell me that this






Are better then this:





Then I have no idea how you could.

Sure, lately Nomura has been kinda stupid designs, the character we see in the Versus trailer is a sign of this, but I still like them, and you still buy the games :-|

[Roto13]

Nomura sucks. Hard.

"Hmm, how am I going to make this main character stand out? I know! I'll make him really effeminate! And give him way too many belts! And a necklace we can make real-life replicas of and sell for hundreds of dollars! I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE EVER!"

[Mr Cactuar]

The 'tripod' pic is a pic of Auron.

Curse you tripod, curse you...

[SoulTaker*]

Sorry im gonna have to go with Nomura. Im a History major and im minoring in English lit. I enjoy Politics and a good book but I struggled through FFXII's storyline. I hardly consider FF7, 8 and 10 vapid or childish. If all you noticed were the love stories then you didnt pay attention basically.

As for the character designs, Nomura still kicks ass. XII's designs were ok, but Nomura still has the cool factor. Granted the main character in versus looks like a rough draft of Cloud, but the others look excellent.

[lovedovey]

Granted the main character in versus looks like a rough draft of Cloud, but the others look excellent.

Same could be said of Lightning. (image from another site; not my own)

[Mr Cactuar]

They've already said that they got her design off Cloud, and basically said that she was a female version of Cloud.

Whats your point?

About Nomura, I think he ranges from very good to why-doesn't-SE-just-get-a-new-smurfing-character-designer-instead-of-that-boring-unoriginal-piece-of-turd

Lol, I agree with this statement. There are some of his characters that are not original-ish, but they wouldn't be the same characters if they didn't look like that would they?

(disregard Organisation XIII)

[Omni-Odin]

I'm super-psyched for these games!!!

Also, I think Lightning kind of looks like the girl from the Departed with blond hair. I don't know if it's just me or what.


Google Image Result for http://www.nndb.com/people/744/000122378/vera-farmiga-1-sized.jpg

That's her picture if you haven't seen her.