Kefka > Sephy

[The Crystal]

Guess I should of reworded by what I meant by hate fest. As with just about any FFVII related argument it generally turns sour, so I wanted to spare this thread from veering off topic down that road which would undoubtedly turn into just mindless bickering over who thought who was their favorite etc.

If you wanted to spare this thread of becoming a "hate fest" between FFVI and FFVII's fanbase, why the hell you named it "Kefka > Sephiroth"?!?! I mean, come on!

As for my reasons for disliking Sephiroth? I think I had some valid reasons especially since I was mostly comparing him to Kefka. Honestly I don't think he's a terrible villain, better then some of the crap ones Square has come up with (Yu-Yevon, Seymour, Ultimecia, but that's another topic altogether) but I personally believe he is over rated and isn't nearly as good a villain as Kefka.

From what I read, your reasons for prefering Kefka over Sephiroth, is that the first accomplished more than the later. But when you listed their accomplishments, you forgot many things Seph did, and you listed everything Kefka did. Your comparison was unfair.

Thought about the facts bit? What facts did I get wrong? He burned a village...correct. He killed a flower girl...correct. You see Jenova or Sephiroth and generally the other wasn't far behind...correct. (And personally I think that fact alone warrants the momma's boy joke, but that's just me >.>) I hardly see how I didn't get the facts straight. As for the later things you listed Sephiroth doing a lot of that is merely opinion on atrocity. Personally I think Shinra did more evil acts over all then Sephiroth, just by comparison, I mean they oppressed people, and were the root cause for all of Sephiroths hate.

Like I said before, the problem is that your comparison between Kefka and Sephiroth was unfair.
I can easily say that Sephiroth is a better villain because of all the people he killed in the Shinra building, and Shinra ship, while Kefka killed General Leo. But that's wrong, because killing Leo is not the only thing he did.

Oh, and everything I listed about Sephiroth is canon. Everything. If you disagree with something, than show me what it is, and we can talk about it.

I would correct you on his not killing anyone in FFVI as he quite clearly did and that has tangible evidence to back it up. As for making a thread, sure go right ahead I could care less if you hated Kefka and went on why you disliked him so long as you can be civil about it and actually give a reason why as opposed to the majority of people out there who can't give valid reasons for anything, they just don't like it 'cause' and try and make that into an argument.

And if I give a wrong reason for hating him, like "he only killed one person"? Is the same thing as stating "Sephiroth only killed a flower girl and burned a village". That's what you did here.

Perhaps I wasn't being the most tactful in my first comment on Sephiroth (though as I said above I did pretty much give a list of some of his evil deeds) but regardless I didn't think someone would get so upset about a joke comment in a light hearted thread about a joke movie. >.>

I'm not upset, I'm only remembering you that Sephiroth did much more than burning a village and killing a girl.

[Eiko Guy]

"200 episodes and you havent even gotten togther. Mybe you should hang out with your gay brother"

Genius.

[Larahl]

I thought it was hilarious.

"This place reeks from virginity."
Awesomesuace. XD

[NeoCracker]

To "The Crystal"

First, I haven't played VII in a while, but wasn't Jenova basically crippled when Sephiroth dominated it? If thats the case, its not really much of an accomplishment. Its not better then stabbing a guy in a coma and going "I owned you!"

Second, he did hold back Holy and summon meteor. Meteor, however, failed. You get this game leading up to sephiroths aquisition of Meteor, and it fails.

Third, I don't really think Weapon was part of Sephiroths plan. Sure, it caused Chaos in the outside world, but what did that really do for him?

The big thing is, While Sephiroth did alot, none of it was spectacular, and the only 2 things he did that were worth much was holding off Holy, and achiving the black Materia.

Compare that to Kefka, whose plans succeeded time and time again, until his last one to destroy the world.

So Sephiroth tried to accomplish things, but in the end failed at most of them.

[Big D]

Second, he did hold back Holy and summon meteor. Meteor, however, failed. You get this game leading up to sephiroths aquisition of Meteor, and it fails.

Meteor wasn't a complete failure - Holy was unleashed too late, so Upper Midgar was basically devastated, and Kalm was damaged too. Thanks to Sephiroth's violence, Shinra was utterly wiped out (though Avalanche certainly helped), leaving the world without government.

Sephiroth was also well on his way to becoming a truly godlike being when he was stopped. His goal was to absorb the Planet's energy, becoming powerful beyond compare and eventually bonding with the Planet as a supreme being... he came awfully close to achieving that.

[NeoCracker]

Second, he did hold back Holy and summon meteor. Meteor, however, failed. You get this game leading up to sephiroths aquisition of Meteor, and it fails.

Meteor wasn't a complete failure - Holy was unleashed too late, so Upper Midgar was basically devastated, and Kalm was damaged too. Thanks to Sephiroth's violence, Shinra was utterly wiped out (though Avalanche certainly helped), leaving the world without government.

Sephiroth was also well on his way to becoming a truly godlike being when he was stopped. His goal was to absorb the Planet's energy, becoming powerful beyond compare and eventually bonding with the Planet as a supreme being... he came awfully close to achieving that.

Yes, he did become close.

THough I think it is best to reject the destruction of upper Midgar and Shinra as an accomplishment. I mean its not like he cared one way or the other, it wasn't even part of his goal. It's just something that kinda happened along the way.

[The Crystal]

To "The Crystal"

First, I haven't played VII in a while, but wasn't Jenova basically crippled when Sephiroth dominated it? If thats the case, its not really much of an accomplishment. Its not better then stabbing a guy in a coma and going "I owned you!"

Jenova was brain-dead, but she was still alive and her instinctual nature could still influence others.
Ah, and no one could take over Jenova like Sephiroth did. He was basically a half-Jenova/human and the only one with control over her cells because of that.

Second, he did hold back Holy and summon meteor. Meteor, however, failed. You get this game leading up to sephiroths aquisition of Meteor, and it fails.

And? The fact he summoned Meteor and survived is a great accomplishment. Anyone who used the Black Materia would die after doing that, but because of all the Lifestream he absorbed during 5 years before the game started, he had the power to use it and survive.

And my point in stating Meteor, is that... He summoned a giant meteor to destroy the world! Everytime someone looked to the sky, they saw a Meteor approaching them to kill everyone. People say that Kefka wanted to destroy hope... Well, Sephiroth did that.

Third, I don't really think Weapon was part of Sephiroths plan. Sure, it caused Chaos in the outside world, but what did that really do for him?

It made his enemies preoccupied in destroying them, instead of focusing on him. It was a distraction.

The big thing is, While Sephiroth did alot, none of it was spectacular, and the only 2 things he did that were worth much was holding off Holy, and achiving the black Materia.

"While Sephiroth did alot". This is what I wanted to hear. He did much more than burning a village and killing a girl.

You want spectacular feats? How about surpassing death? How about absorbing the source of magic in the world during 5 years? How about killing the most powerful man in the world(Shinra)? How about holding back a spell with power enough to wipe everything from the face of Gaia in seconds, while he controlled the clones(and later, fought the party)? How about creating a barrier that covered all the Northern Crater, and it was so powerful that could protect the Crater from even a city-buster attack(it's revealed in BC that the Junon Cannon have the power to destroy the city of Midgar in a normal shot, but a normal shot wasn't enough to destroy Sephiroth's barrier in FFVII)? How about being the main reason why the Weapons were released, causing chaos and panic in the world? How about creating fear in all the habitants of the planet, by summoning Meteor to crush them? How about causing a technological retrocess in the world(because of Midgar's destruction) while spreading an uncurable disease across the planet, and corrupting the source of magic in the world, to use the entire planet as a space-ship to travel the universe?

And some people say he didn't "mess up the world". :rolleyes2

Compare that to Kefka, whose plans succeeded time and time again, until his last one to destroy the world.

And all Sephiroth's plans in FFVII succeeded until his last one to destroy the world/become a god. So what?

So Sephiroth tried to accomplish things, but in the end failed at most of them.

In FFVII he failed in the last step of his plan, that's all. And he succeeded in AC! His plan to control the Lifestream in FFVII, was accomplished in the movie. He corrupted the Lifestream(with help of Geostigma) and could control it.



Don't get me wrong, I love Kefka. But comparing everything he did, with two things Sephiroth did and forgeting all the others, is a bit unfair.

OBS: I'm not stating Sephiroth is a better villain than Kefka. I think it's ridiculous to argue about that, because it's just opinion. What I'm doing here is showing that Sephiroth did much more than "kill a flower girl". That's all.

[Aerith's Knight]

but he killed her

that was just evil.. EVIL!!!

[ReloadPsi]

I prefer Kefka to all other villains and I don't even like FF6 very much.

[Goldenboko]

I like how this thread has nothing to do with Kefka V. Sephiroth, that was clearly just a joke in the title, but a few people have managed to center the entire thing around it... like always.

[NeoCracker]

To "The Crystal"

First, I haven't played VII in a while, but wasn't Jenova basically crippled when Sephiroth dominated it? If thats the case, its not really much of an accomplishment. Its not better then stabbing a guy in a coma and going "I owned you!"

Jenova was brain-dead, but she was still alive and her instinctual nature could still influence others.
Ah, and no one could take over Jenova like Sephiroth did. He was basically a half-Jenova/human and the only one with control over her cells because of that.

Second, he did hold back Holy and summon meteor. Meteor, however, failed. You get this game leading up to sephiroths aquisition of Meteor, and it fails.

And? The fact he summoned Meteor and survived is a great accomplishment. Anyone who used the Black Materia would die after doing that, but because of all the Lifestream he absorbed during 5 years before the game started, he had the power to use it and survive.

And my point in stating Meteor, is that... He summoned a giant meteor to destroy the world! Everytime someone looked to the sky, they saw a Meteor approaching them to kill everyone. People say that Kefka wanted to destroy hope... Well, Sephiroth did that.

Third, I don't really think Weapon was part of Sephiroths plan. Sure, it caused Chaos in the outside world, but what did that really do for him?

It made his enemies preoccupied in destroying them, instead of focusing on him. It was a distraction.

The big thing is, While Sephiroth did alot, none of it was spectacular, and the only 2 things he did that were worth much was holding off Holy, and achiving the black Materia.

"While Sephiroth did alot". This is what I wanted to hear. He did much more than burning a village and killing a girl.

You want spectacular feats? How about surpassing death? How about absorbing the source of magic in the world during 5 years? How about killing the most powerful man in the world(Shinra)? How about holding back a spell with power enough to wipe everything from the face of Gaia in seconds, while he controlled the clones(and later, fought the party)? How about creating a barrier that covered all the Northern Crater, and it was so powerful that could protect the Crater from even a city-buster attack(it's revealed in BC that the Junon Cannon have the power to destroy the city of Midgar in a normal shot, but a normal shot wasn't enough to destroy Sephiroth's barrier in FFVII)? How about being the main reason why the Weapons were released, causing chaos and panic in the world? How about creating fear in all the habitants of the planet, by summoning Meteor to crush them? How about causing a technological retrocess in the world(because of Midgar's destruction) while spreading an uncurable disease across the planet, and corrupting the source of magic in the world, to use the entire planet as a space-ship to travel the universe?

And some people say he didn't "mess up the world". :rolleyes2

Compare that to Kefka, whose plans succeeded time and time again, until his last one to destroy the world.

And all Sephiroth's plans in FFVII succeeded until his last one to destroy the world/become a god. So what?

So Sephiroth tried to accomplish things, but in the end failed at most of them.

In FFVII he failed in the last step of his plan, that's all. And he succeeded in AC! His plan to control the Lifestream in FFVII, was accomplished in the movie. He corrupted the Lifestream(with help of Geostigma) and could control it.



Don't get me wrong, I love Kefka. But comparing everything he did, with two things Sephiroth did and forgeting all the others, is a bit unfair.

OBS: I'm not stating Sephiroth is a better villain than Kefka. I think it's ridiculous to argue about that, because it's just opinion. What I'm doing here is showing that Sephiroth did much more than "kill a flower girl". That's all.

The whole point was, is that Sephiroths accomplishments didn't really seem all the great. Not much he did really stood out compared to others.

And I think most people already know Seph did more than that, they just tend to ignore the rest.

I however, don't, because it's all those other reasons I don't really like him too. However that was hardly the point.

[Heath]

I think that part of the reason why Kefka is so memorable as a villain is that his eccentric attitude to things, his downright insanity and how funny he is makes him stick in peoples minds. Sephiroth, on the other hand, isn't terribly unique as far as villains go. Memorable for his various deeds, but I'd say he's certainly not unique compared to Kefka.

I certainly prefer Kefka to Sephiroth myself. As for why Kefka > Sephiroth, I think most of the points I had in mind have been covered by others in this thread.

[Big D]

Personally, I found Kefka less memorable and unique because of his eccentric attitude. He often resembles little more than a cackling madman. the aimless and pointless type of villain who might be found in a cartoon or one of the lesser Bond films.

[LunarWeaver]

I don't know if the whole Kefka succeeded thing is fair in an "outside of the game" way. Because Square had already done that with FFVI, so there's no way they were gonna repeat it in the next game. Would we really want Sephiroth to destroy the world and have a repeat of the whole situation? That would suck. It would be a lame copy of what they just did and take away from VI's big moment. I'm glad Sephy-popo didn't succeed in his plans. I don't think it makes him less of a villain, he's just different and approaches things differently for the sake of the series remaining interesting.

And since this has somehow turned into a huge Vs. thread, I like Sephiroth better, just for the record. Sorry NeoCracker

[The Crystal]

So many people say they like Kefka because of his evilness or insanity. But in my opinion, what makes Kefka a popular and a "memorable" villain, is that... He is funny. His personality and lines are funny. He makes us laugh. I think this the main reason why he have so many fans.