Mafia V: Official game thread (Day 7 - Game Over. Town Win!)

[[M] Mom – Host]

Bahamut:


Please don't take the death blurbs as evidence of anything. They're just supposed to be something that makes the game a little bit more fun. "Terra died, sux2bher" isn't as exciting.

OOC:	As an out-loud musing, I get the feeling that this game is too filled with special roles. While I can imagine the thinking behind it, it makes a game too complicated, especially if there are several different groups with their own agenda because it gives the townies a disadvantage

It's just an experiment, really, because a lot of people don't like Vanilla Town and refuse to play properly if that's what they get. But don't worry about the townsfolk being disadvantaged. We've tried to give all factions, be they town, mafia, or anything else a decent slice of power. We hope the game is balanced and it was something we heavily considered. Maybe it'll turn out we were wrong, and I'll be disappointed if we were, but we've definitely tried.

[[M] Caprica]

Rinoa

This my suspicions for Freya, Faris, Auron and Terra.

I encourage people to go back and read this post, as Cyan provides a lot of input on certain things. Cyan was a Mason, and a Mason knows who the other Masons are. For this reason I don't think any of the above people are her fellow Masons. I think this is the best piece of information to go on at this time. Please provide another if you see it.

Terra is now dead. Faris voted yesterday and hasn't raised much suspicion from me. Auron posts just to vote for Vivi, but at least he posted recently. Freya has only made one post, to vote for Vivi. She is not being helpful, and is my current number 1 suspect. It's hard to come up with a lot of evidence for this, but that's the point. If mafia never post then we will never find the evidence to lynch them. If town doesn't post then lynching them is most likely no big loss. The only way it would be a loss is if the person was a doctor trying to lay low, but even then they should at least vote.

My vote will go to Freya until she posts. Once she posts I will retract my vote if she provides a good argument.

##Vote: Freya

EDIT: Well there goes my theory that Edge was James Bond with Extreme Jawache.

[[M] Felix]

Quina:


Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

[[M] Trevor - Gay Dad]

Fran:

In the first round Fran, Quina and Lulu all voted for the person lynched.

The first time I voted, it was cause Ingus was acting way funny. I'm sure you'd recall this since YOU VOTED FOR HIM AS WELL.

The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.

In round two they all voted for the same person again... They couldn't all change their votes however because that's just too suspicious.

Nice. So since I kept my vote with someone who I didn't think was playing well, it makes me suspicious. If I had changed my vote, I would have been suspicious too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh?

Now that Lulu is dead that leaves Fran and Quina. Of the two Fran is the one that's "doing the most damage" as it were.

You're trying to argue that I was teamed up with the Lovers, but you seem to be overlooking the fundamentals of the role. Lovers = two people. I am positive that we killed all the Lovers in this game. It was like a mini-faction. Two people, both with power roles. As long as the protective Lover was alive, the killing role was safe. Without the killing role, the protective Lover had no use. Once the Protective Lover was gone, Killing Lover was open to being killed, which he was.

If there were more than 2 lovers in the game, they would be called polygamists or something. Trust me, it makes sense that there are only two Lovers. Or else, if it was built like a regular Mafia group, why would they need to specify that only ONE of them can have a kill power? Makes no sense. Makes PERFECT sense if there are only two Lovers.

So, since there are only two Lovers, your attempts at connecting two more people to that group is pretty faulty.

God your quote was a mess... [part of post omitted] I also suspect you so much it's unreal. If I had a concrete reason to vote for you right now I would, but at the moment your incessant double talk makes it nye on impossible to follow what you're saying/doing.

Ok, so I can't vote for someone based on ridiculously convoluted "makes no sense" post a la Ramza, but YOU can be suspicious of the same thing in Edgar? No. It doesn't work that way. You can't try and lynch someone for behavior that you yourself are exhibiting.

[[M] Dave – Stepdad]

Barret:

The first time I voted, it was cause Ingus was acting way funny. I'm sure you'd recall this since YOU VOTED FOR HIM AS WELL.

But you changed your vote by the end. Vote switching is a common Mafia tactic since they have to co-ordinate their votes to be effective.

The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.

You voted for someone just because they were annoying you? That's the most ridiculous reason for voting for anyone in this game I've ever heard. How can you possibly expect anyone to accept such an explanation? That's an obvious lame excuse.

Nice. So since I kept my vote with someone who I didn't think was playing well, it makes me suspicious. If I had changed my vote, I would have been suspicious too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh?

If you had a legitimate reason for voting then you wouldn't be under suspicion right now. "Because he was annoying" just doesn't cut it in this game.

You're trying to argue that I was teamed up with the Lovers, but you seem to be overlooking the fundamentals of the role. Lovers = two people. I am positive that we killed all the Lovers in this game. It was like a mini-faction. Two people, both with power roles. As long as the protective Lover was alive, the killing role was safe. Without the killing role, the protective Lover had no use. Once the Protective Lover was gone, Killing Lover was open to being killed, which he was.

Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot. Also, just because they are lovers doesn't mean they're not still Mafia. Lovers can be both Townie and Mafia people, they just work together. They were Mafia as indicated by their red titles. Ergo, their partnership is irrelevant to the factions within this game since, as part of the Mafia, their roles would have been two-fold; To work with the Mafia and to work with each other.

So, since there are only two Lovers, your attempts at connecting two more people to that group is pretty faulty.

See above.

Ok, so I can't vote for someone based on ridiculously convoluted "makes no sense" post a la Ramza, but YOU can be suspicious of the same thing in Edgar? No. It doesn't work that way. You can't try and lynch someone for behavior that you yourself are exhibiting.

I said the complete opposite; that Edgar's erratic behaviours meant I couldn't vote for him. He has said and done certain things in the past that make me suspicious, but his overall plan of action is all over the place. This may be a ruse, or a special role. Regardless, everytime I think there's a reason to lynch him something comes up for me to think otherwise. Hence I'm voting for the people who I believe are most likely to be Mafia based on voting patterns, which in this case is you.

Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

See above.

[[M] Al - Biker Dad]

Edge:

Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):

Well, Quina's off my suspect list. For now.

I think Lulu's suspicion is unfounded, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's Mafia; she may have just interpreted some of Edgar's posts incorrectly in the interim between the two quotes mentioned previously.

Now then, with Quina no longer being a prime suspect of mine, and my opinion on Lulu, the current prime suspect, being readily available above, who do I suspect now? Apologies for the overuse of "suspect". My thoughts on that is that it may be because you are guilty too.

Then he pointed his finger towards Cyan (a confirmed innocent person) as well as me (unconfirmed innocent person). That's why I'm thinking that those people on this list he went after are possibly innocent:

Vivi - Voted for Edge, the only person not yet to post in this thread. Mafia voting for a random known non-Mafia? Or, a sneaky plan by Vivi as a Mafia to vote for one of his fellow Mafia, who hadn't posted, just as a seemingly random vote to draw attention away from both of them?

Edge - See Vivi, but obviously no evidence as of yet. Hardly a strong suspect in my eyes, but there's always the possibility.

Cyan - As mentioned by Firion, Cyan started the voting for Rydia with a bunch of evidence that seven of us, not knowing any better, followed nigh-blindly. I was one of them, of course. Now that Rydia has turned out to be an oddly-posting Townie, Cyan's arguments look more suspicious, as Firion pointed out.

So Vivi and Cyan are the big ones for me right now. No vote as of yet, of course.

That would make Lulu and Quina Irvine's partners in crime.

[[M] Gaius]

Edgar:


*Eyes implode*

Alright, I have a few things I'm still questioning about.

I still don't think the Lovers are part of the actual mafia faction. Everytime a mafia role is unvieled (or at least in the previous games), it said "Mafia ______". Last game there was a mafian bomb, but it was made very clear he was on the mafia side. So imo if the Lovers where part of the Mafia, it would've said Mafia Lover (Doctor).

[[M] Greg - Hot Dad]

Aeris:

Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot.

I would just like to point out that only on the last page was it re-pointed out that the Lovers in this game are not the Lovers from the Mafia flash.

[[M] Al - Biker Dad]

Edge:


Ah, well, if Bahamut clearly specified that the lovers role had nothing to do with the flash version that would mean that the whole thing with the person committing suicide the following night after the other was lynched could be faulty. Irvine could have very well been killed by someone else. The fact that they were also killer and doctor respectively leaves me to believe that it is possible that there is more than a duo of lovers with a different role (like a Lover(Cop) or something.

Which means that they could be a group faction with more than two people. Especially since they were scum. Basically, that would mean that the other scums probably knew about them and vice versa. Lovers could be the name of the mafia in this game. Ofcourse, this all seems like such a stretch, but something seemed puzzling about the fact that Bahamut felt the need to list two roles.

[[M] Felix]

Quina:

Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):

He was also quick to ADD ME to his suspect list. If we were working together, why would he suspect me in the first place?

[[M] Caprica]

Rinoa


I think Fran makes the best argument as to what the Lovers are. That is, a separate faction, each with a power role. The doctor is there to keep the killer alive. I think the Lovers are all gone and there is no more of that faction left. Barret, Bahmut specifically said that the lovers in this game has nothing to do with the Lovers role found in the mafia flash. So it is not safe to assume that if one dies the other must die. In fact, I believe the opposite. I think Irvine was someone else's night kill, and it was just coincidence that he died right after his lover died.

I think trying to connect people to Irvine and Lulu is an unwise move at this point. Barret, let's consider your thoughts that Fran is mafia. Fran is an active poster in this game. This leaves her open to more contradiction, more evidence to convict her. In short, if she is mafia she will be found out eventually. And actually, this is what I believe: There is no way mafia can win this game by being very active, argumentitive posters. That is why I think we should vote out the inactive people, and force the mafia to be active. If we vote out Fran, and she turns up innocent, that will show the mafia that they just need to shut up and let each other pick ourselves apart. However, if we commit ourselves to voting out the inactives, even if some are innocent, it will at least show the mafia that we will not let them hide.

Also, the more active people we have the more fun it is. And that's the point.

Freya has made 1 post. Think about it. Who suspects Freya at this point (besides me)? No one suspects her because she has not said anything that people can disagree with. She hasn't said anything at all! It's the perfect mafia strategy! I'm not limiting myself to her. Auron, Vivi, and some others need to step it up as well.

EDIT: While I typed this a lot of what I said was said by others concerning the Lovers. Sorry for any confusion.

[[M] Trevor - Gay Dad]

Fran:

But you changed your vote by the end. Vote switching is a common Mafia tactic since they have to co-ordinate their votes to be effective.

I never changed my vote. Stop trying to spread misinformation.

The second day, I voted for Ramza cause he was pissing me off with his crazy logic and silly gimmick.

You voted for someone just because they were annoying you? That's the most ridiculous reason for voting for anyone in this game I've ever heard. How can you possibly expect anyone to accept such an explanation? That's an obvious lame excuse.

What part of crazy logic and silly gimmick makes a lynch vote ridiculous and lame to you? If you read through his posts and mine, you'd see that I was getting frustrated at the fact that his ideas and scenarios did NOT make any sense. Not only that, but why would someone try so hard to use a gimmick? Is that not at all suspicious to you? Obvious lame excuse? I beg to differ. It was the 2nd day. Were there any other crazy suspicious people around? The first few days are hard cause there's not much evidence. So I voted for whoever was acting the weirdest, and that was Ramza. Do I still believe he's mafia? Thinking about it, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure a mafia would act the way Ramza's been acting. Which is why Ramza is on the backburner for me now.

Actually the Lover role in Mafia is either a pair that win if they're both alive by the end of the game, or one where if one dies so does the other. Since Lulu died and Irvine followed, I would say that gives us the second lot. Also, just because they are lovers doesn't mean they're not still Mafia. Lovers can be both Townie and Mafia people, they just work together. They were Mafia as indicated by their red titles. Ergo, their partnership is irrelevant to the factions within this game since, as part of the Mafia, their roles would have been two-fold; To work with the Mafia and to work with each other.

Like others have pointed out, Lovers in this game is NOT the Lovers talked about in the Mafia role flash. The game moderators specifically told us that. Pay attention. :twak:

And I already explained why Lovers is not a group WITHIN another scum group. Cause if they were, there is no reason to specifically give one Lover the power to kill, because in a scum group ALL members have power to kill.

[[M] Jeff - Single Dad]

Cid


Wow, alot of text, I glanced over what everyone wrote, but I didn't read everything, I am going to put that out right now, so If I said something that has been covered already I am sorry.

First I think that they are right in the assumption that the Lovers are separate from the mafia and that there were probably two of them, that makes sence, though the Lovers could be the name of a cult, but due to Irvines death scean, it wouldn't seem that way.

Even though I would love to say that "I voted for Lulu that makes me innocent," That is not true. -Rinoa, Faris, Cid, Edgar, Firion- We all voted for Lulu, that dose not make us innocent, we voted for a guilty member of the Lovers group, There is a chance that they are still a member of the Mafia and did not have any knowledge of the Lovers, and therefore thought that they were just voting for a townie.

This of course is all just speculation, but I think it is worth thinking about.

[[M] Dave – Stepdad]

Barret:

I never changed my vote. Stop trying to spread misinformation.

You just said you did..............

What part of crazy logic and silly gimmick makes a lynch vote ridiculous and lame to you? If you read through his posts and mine, you'd see that I was getting frustrated at the fact that his ideas and scenarios did NOT make any sense. Not only that, but why would someone try so hard to use a gimmick? Is that not at all suspicious to you? Obvious lame excuse? I beg to differ. It was the 2nd day. Were there any other crazy suspicious people around? The first few days are hard cause there's not much evidence. So I voted for whoever was acting the weirdest, and that was Ramza. Do I still believe he's mafia? Thinking about it, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure a mafia would act the way Ramza's been acting. Which is why Ramza is on the backburner for me now.

Exactly. Decent Mafia players don't draw such obvious attention to themselves. Thusly I believe he might be a special role like a Jester. Either that or he's just not playing the game properly. It's still a bad reason to lynch someone; spotting Mafia should be about spotting inconsistencies in their testimonial and patterns of behaviour, not targetting someone for "acting weird".

Like others have pointed out, Lovers in this game is NOT the Lovers talked about in the Mafia role flash. The game moderators specifically told us that. Pay attention. :twak:

And I already explained why Lovers is not a group WITHIN another scum group. Cause if they were, there is no reason to specifically give one Lover the power to kill, because in a scum group ALL members have power to kill.

OOC:	OK, I refuse to go along with this a second longer until Bahamut clears up exactly what faction the Lovers were working for. I feel it's only fair because the Mafia role names have been in the same red text as the lovers were and people are getting confused

[[M] Al - Biker Dad]

Edge:

Barret: If you're going to lump me in with the Lovers, you're going to have to come up with some explanation as to what the Lovers actually are. I don't go for foursomes.

I will say that after attempting to read through all of these posts and try to come up with some suspects I've found you the most suspicious so far. Irvine (a confirmed guilty person) was quick to take you off of his suspect list and defended Lulu (a confirmed guilty person):

He was also quick to ADD ME to his suspect list. If we were working together, why would he suspect me in the first place?

Possibly to make you appear innocent like he tried to do with Lulu. Then again, he could just have been framing you so that we'd lynch you after his death. But since I'm sure that two out of the three people on his list are innocent it seems the first statement is more likely.