Revolution...

[Wolf Kanno]

So I've been watching the new FFXIII trailers, reading up on TA and CC and playing through the older FFs alot lately.

I've been thinking about the future of the series while I read different commentaries about how SE has lost its touch and the series may finally be falling into a downhill spiral due to the alarming number of remakes quick cash sequels and spin-offs that SE is producing. Granted SE has been accused of milking the franchise for years but lately it seems more open about it. I'm starting to feel SE may need to do a remake of VII just to remove the tarnish the Compilation has done to its good name. Though I don't completely agree with such statements I do feel SE has been going a little too far with some things...

But besides that, I feel with PS2 era that the fan community has been more fractured and splintered than before and we all seek different direction from the series. So where do you want the series to head and what avenues of interactive media and storytelling do you wish to explore?

Basically play director and creator but understand you must choose things you wish build upon. So its not like "what I want FFXIV to be" but more like "what I want FFXIV-XVI to be like". I'm curious to know what fans want and expect from the series in the future. I only ask that you be specific or at least have well thought out answers. A comment like "I like where its going now" won't cut it cause I would ask you to define where you feel its headed. Like an annoying english teacher I'm expecting an essay style answer not an irrelevant shout out...

[Avarice-ness]

I agree with the people who say SE has lost it's touch and FF is finally going down hill.

Personally, I don't believe that SE made any of the spin-off's for the fans, I believe that all of the spin-off's were made in a dire attempt to make more money and little milk the franchise for all it's worth, saddly due to milking the franchise, it's causing problems in the eyes of the fans down the road.

I believe when they make 3 final fantasy XIII's at a time, that SE's lost it's touch with itself and reality completely. Just 6 years ago, SE would spend -years- on ONE game, putting in all the heart they could into one game. Well now, the years and heart isn't put into one game, but three games all while at the same time creating spin offs for other games.

I personally feel that final fantasy's lost it's heart, the thing that made the games loveable and catchy. And I don't see SE even caring that the heart of the game is missing, seeing as after spin-off, mobile phone games, and movies they still continue to do the same thing.

SE is showing what evil companies really are, money grubbing people who will do anything to gain money and that includes driving a once prosperous franchise into a hole.

[Rostum]

I agree with the people who say SE has lost it's touch and FF is finally going down hill.

If anything, Final Fantasy has just began to climax into something huge. When you look at it, it's gaining more popularity over the whole world with bigger production values and fans.

Personally, I don't believe that SE made any of the spin-off's for the fans, I believe that all of the spin-off's were made in a dire attempt to make more money and little milk the franchise for all it's worth, saddly due to milking the franchise, it's causing problems in the eyes of the fans down the road.

While SE acts like any typical business would, through interviews and behind the scenes it is very evident that the people working on the games and movies are very passionate about what they do. It has only shown in a couple of games that they slapped it together just to get the sales going (Only one I can think of at the moment is Dirge of Cerberus).

I believe when they make 3 final fantasy XIII's at a time, that SE's lost it's touch with itself and reality completely. Just 6 years ago, SE would spend -years- on ONE game, putting in all the heart they could into one game. Well now, the years and heart isn't put into one game, but three games all while at the same time creating spin-off's for other games.

That's because six years ago, technology was different and Squaresoft was a much smaller company. With the availability of better and bigger facilities, as well as an increase in technology and employees, Square-Enix are able to allocate a number of teams for different projects. You do realise it's not just one team working on all of the Final Fantasy XIII games, right?

I personally feel that final fantasy's lost it's heart, the thing that made the games loveable and catchy. And I don't see SE even caring that the heart of the game is missing, seeing as after spin-off, mobile phone games, and movies they still continue to do the same thing.

I don't think you have any ground base for that kind of argument. Last I checked, Final Fantasy still follows the same formula as the older ones. Sure there are members who have left and some newer faces giving a different style to the franchise, but I don't see it losing it's heart at all.

As for the movies, they were quality. With Advent Children, it is very high quality CGI work there, and anyone who says differently obviously don't know what's involved and have never looked into the industry. It was an extremely fresh and new way for Square-Enix to express another way to tell a story, and a very good experience for Visual Works (the people who work on the in-game pre-rendered cut scenes for Square-Enix games).

They are experimenting in different mediums, and I don't see why people have a big problem with this. They still have plenty available in the standard medium.

SE is showing what evil companies really are, money grubbing people who will do anything to gain money and that includes driving a once prosperous franchise into a hole.

We knew companies were evil money grubbing people way before Square-Enix. It's typical for every business of every industry. But it's not hindering Final Fantasy, it is allowing Final Fantasy to be expanded into the whole world and newer mediums that are changing our whole lives. If anything, the Final Fantasy franchise has only but expanded and gained greater interest by fans.

[Karellen]

Honestly, I don't really have a problem with what SE is doing now. Final Fantasy XII is one of the best games in the series (and possibly the best RPGs on the PS2) and if they can continue making games of that quality every so often, I can generally forgive them for also turning out crap like Dawn of Mana and Dirge of Cerberus. Ultimately, every developer has been stumbling somewhat lately, some a lot more then others. All in all, I would still say that SE is still one of the top JRPG developers in the industry at the moment. How long that stays true will depend on how good FFXIII, Last Remnant, Dragon Quest IX and White Knight Chronicles are.

So I wouldn't change anything significant, I guess. Or at least, nothing that wouldn't be pandering to my own personal tastes.

[Ouch!]

Square Enix is a much larger company than Squaresoft was and has significantly more resources (such as complete development teams) at its disposal. The overlap on the teams of FFXIII and FFXIII Versus, as Omecle pointed out, is minimal. SE still puts a great deal of effort into each original Final Fantasy title (I mean, they've been putting a lot of effort into FFXIII and Versus for a good long time now), and I think the argument that they're putting less effort into each game is skewed by the fact that the company can now afford to focus on multiple titles at once. It's not economical for SE to employ excess people on a single project, so why not put those other people to making another game of their own?

That said, I think for the most part many of the spin-off games have been fairly bogus. Quite honestly, Crisis Core appears like it's the only good spin-off that SE has ever produced. The spin-offs and sequels aside, I think remaking the series is a good idea, although I don't think it's particularly necessary to have re-releases of FFI and II on three different platforms. The DS remakes are, in my opinion, particularly worthwhile projects, as they'll bring the games to newer generations, which can rarely be a bad thing. As it doesn't look like they've bastardized either FFIII or FFIV in the remakes, I don't think there's reason to complain in regards to such projects.

I'm going to throw out a particularly novel idea here: don't play the spin-offs and sequels if you don't like them. If you want each Final Fantasy to be a stand alone adventure, just play them as they come and ignore the franchise that spawns afterwards. I have no problem doing this.

Quite honestly, what I want in a Final Fantasy game, I don't expect ever to see again. I think we're almost due for another throwback title, like FFIX, but I don't really think that will ever be the case. I see FFIX more as a farewell than a revisiting. I've liked each Final Fantasy title, some more than others, and I don't really think they're losing anything as a whole. Each Final Fantasy has improved upon the last and changed in various ways. They have unifying elements, but the series has shown a huge progression with each game. FFVI is just as different from FFI as FFXII is from FFVI. People seem to ignore this for the sake of elitism and a ridiculous obsession with the "old school" games.

[Jessweeee♪]

I think they're gonna end the series with a BANG!

[Bolivar]

I might be thinking that SE has lost its touch, too, if I were to completely ignore the list of titles they've produced over the last few years.

I'm definately in the same league as Omecle and Ouch! on this one. Revenant Wings was surprisingly innovative and entertaining and Crisis Core has received great reviews, with story sequences that reinforce the original title. Dragon Quest VIII and Final Fantasy XII are undoubtedly my top 2 favorite games over the last few years, and I've spent more time on each of them than any other RPG. XII goes as far as to get better and better the more I play it. I enjoyed the hell out of FFIII DS, and everyone in the forum is saying IV is even better. FFVI and Tactics received updated translations that have been praised across the boards. FFTA2 and the DQ-DS remakes promise that I'll be spending alot of time on my DS in the future. The revealed music, plot, and gameplay of The Last Remnant does the same for my PS3.

Only a disgruntled elitist on an internet forum could possibly think SE is losing its touch.

[NeoCracker]

Square is still going strong. Screw FF XIII, I'm far more excited for all the changes that are in FF IV DS, and now likley V and VI DS. (Really I just hope for these if IV turns out good.)

Also, Last Remnants anyone? Now that game looks like pure win.

Finally, don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to FF XIII and all, but those others are higher on the priority list.

[Big D]

But besides that, I feel with PS2 era that the fan community has been more fractured and splintered than before and we all seek different direction from the series.

I think it's relevant that the PS2 era largely coincided with the height of internet forum usage and other online interaction between fans. Since most people use the internet (and especially forums) just to complain about things and abuse other fans, it makes sense that the fandom would feel more fragmented and discontent. It doesn't necessarily mean that things at S-E are really going downhill; it's just that we've got the means to make more of a fuss over every little thing that's not exactly to our liking.

[Tabris]

I do not think that SE is going downhill. X and XII are - in my opinion - the best FF-games so far. Maybe they are going slightly over the top with the VII-compilation, but I see nothing wrong in creating quality games, novels or movies that are prequels, sequels or something similar to an already existing FF.

My personal favourite is X, and I would love a novel, another game (in addition to X-2) and/or a movie that shows us more of the history and the characters of Spira. So I see nothing wrong with that, as long as it is done with the same quality as the main FF-games.

[Wolf Kanno]

I guess I'll add my :twocents:

For the most part I don't think SE is doing bad, granted its heading towards a few directions I don't care for but part of innovation is accepting change and new ways of thinking. XII has restored my faith in the series as well as the III DS and IV DS which I'm looking forward to as well as A2. If their is a blemish on the series I would have said its the constant ports but many of them have been handled beautifully. Hell, I'm even starting to warm up to the XIII project even though I refuse to jump into the hype bandwagon for it.

Though I do feel if SE has made a few wrong moves, its in the Compilation of VII. Having Before Crisis placed on a cell phone market thats only strong in Japan and the constant change to the games canon has probably been the real reason why part of the FF community as well as the critique community feel SE may have sold out. Not to mention SE's heavy reliance on the DQ/FF brand names. Part of this is as been stated because SE is a larger company and can now have multiple projects to utilize the brand names better. Of course my other feeling for SE's negative attention in the media is probably due to its success. Ever since Square started making a name for themselves, a backlash has been felt where people want to see the company fail. I seriously feel people made a bigger deal out of Spirits Within than it should have...

If I want SE to change in the future it would be three things:

1. Lack of original IPs. Granted this falls into an entirely different debate about the industry as a whole and its understandable. Its a mionor complaint at best, besides I do like the fact that SE is experimenting more with different genres. Though Dirge of Cerberus was ill recieved, at least SE had the guts to try something new. Chain of Memories, Sword of Mana, and Revenant Wings are also good signs that at least from a gameplay standpoint; SE is open to new things and constantly trying to push boundaries.

For the most part I'm happy they continue to innovate but I do wish they could do it without feeling the need to put DQ or FF in the title. I seriously feel Versus and Agito would get a much better reception critiquely if they didn't have the FF moniker on them.

2. Less emulation more immersion. Once again something I feel the whole industry needs and luckily it does appear the SE is walking this route though I'm a little disappointed that they seem to be late to the party. Basically this concerns the gaming communities emulation of the movie industry which I feel needs to finally end. This is mostly due to the fact that I feel games have a better framework for creating wonderful storytelling and experiences than movies and its due to the genres interactivity with the story.

Basically we need to have less 80% story cutscenes and 20% game and more of a fusion of the two where neither is apparent. KH2, MGS3, and RE4 all all wonderful examples with the storytelling and gameplay perfectly fused together. Its one of the reason why I have high hopes for XIII battle system as it may lay the groundwork for the eradication of FMV cutscenes. Bsically I feel the game industry should find its own path and stop with this silly notion that movies are better...

3: A better balance between making a game challenging and accessible. Once again something the cast majority of the industry is guilty of (except you Capcom *hugs*). Like my previous point though, I feel SE is more guilty of this than other companies. Basically we need the main game to become more challenging. I know its difficult to do when you have to put accessibility into account but I feel its getting a little out of hand. I just wish they would take a lesson from Star Ocean 2 where unlocking the uber difficult dungeon with the insanely powerful bosses made the final boss one of the most powerful SOB in the game. Something along those lines would make me happy but alas I don't see this one coming true I'm afraid...

Overall these are changes I would like to see and though SE is partially responsible for leading the industry down a few paths, I also see they are taking certain measures to make changes for the better. Part of my own personal issues with last generation of SE offerings stems probably from the turmoil of Sakeguchi and other high profile members leaving. As well as the merger and the general lack of a direction for the company. All this ending with the only person I feel who could lead SE in a wonderful direction leaving the company as well. Though I don't care for the idea of sequels for the main FF branch it did at least lead to SE listening to its fans more and brought us some really well polished ports and remakes. I can't say I'm thrilled with the direction XIII is taking (why three games again?) but I'm slowly starting to accept it.

Overall, I'm optimistic for the future cause I feel the gaming community has matured and changed in a way that won't allow the industry to redo the same old crap; and that the current generation of systems can allow the industry to experiment more and find their own path to explore as well as a new form of creative expression.

[Ouch!]

The similarities among the FFXIII titles are limited to a common mythology that connects the stories in a general manner. FFXIII and FFXIII Versus will be standalone titles. I think people are just assuming that because they're both called FFXIII that they're going to be as closely linked as FFVII and FFVII: DoC or FFX and FFX-2. What's so hard about viewing them as separate entities like FFX and FFXII? Looks like they're just about as similar as those two (i.e. not very).

Agito doesn't exist. I choose to ignore any cell phone titles.

[Wolf Kanno]

The similarities among the FFXIII titles are limited to a common mythology that connects the stories in a general manner. FFXIII and FFXIII Versus will be standalone titles. I think people are just assuming that because they're both called FFXIII that they're going to be as closely linked as FFVII and FFVII: DoC or FFX and FFX-2. What's so hard about viewing them as separate entities like FFX and FFXII? Looks like they're just about as similar as those two (i.e. not very).

Agito doesn't exist. I choose to ignore any cell phone titles.

Its not so much the fact I feel the three games are connected, of anything, since they are all so very different I'm dumbfounded as to why they would all share the XIII moniker. Like a few people said before on other threads, why not just call them FFXIII, XIV, and XV or make Versus and Agito stand alone titles seperate from the FF series? Granted I feel it will become quite apparent when all the titles are finally released...

[Ouch!]

It's because they share the common mythology involving the crystals, hence the name of the project: Fabula Nova Crystallis. They're also all coming out at relatively the same time. Given that the games are only called "Final Fantasy" so that they sell better, I don't really see how the number assigned to them is in any way relevant.

Really, what's the different between naming it FFXIII Versus or FFXIV? Both titles are just there for brand identity and making money. I don't see why the latter would be inherently better or more acceptable to people who have the opinion that companies using brand recognition to make money is evil.

Really, every company makes video games to make money. Anyone who thinks they make their games for the benefit of the fans is deluding himself. Any company that is more in touch with their fan base is merely that way because they view that approach as a good business decision.

[NeoCracker]

Well of course they do it to make money, but why can't it be for both?

I mean I for one one to write game stories not only to make money, but so that people can enjoy my works. To say they only do it for money is kinda silly.