Naruto: Awesome or Opossum?

[Mercen-X]

Is Naruto great? Surely some believe so.

However, apparently there is a large number of people who feel differently. People who feel that Naruto should die as a series (or in some cases even his character.)

So let's discuss this rationally, shall we?

[Bahamut2000X]

Naruto is a fairly good series, it has it's faults but then again so does everything. The English version is crap, but the Japanese one is much much better, although it sucked hard core during the filler arcs and Shippuden has taken a bit of a plunge by their attempts to make sure the anime never catches up to eh manga again.

But as far as the characters and story goes it's got a fairly decent one. It's has a plethora of characters and actually takes the time to develop them. It has gotten a little old in some cases though, but it still remains a pretty good series.

Most people who hate Naruto more so just hate what it's associated with and the fan base that surrounds it, much like Halo and FFVII.

[Flying Mullet]

Awesome Opossum.

[Cloudane]

As you may guess from my Jiraiya avatar and title, I love it and watch the sub.

I would say it's brilliant, and the proof is that it's so popular and successful. The reason I love it is pretty much the same as why I like FF - it has this brilliant way of drawing you into the characters (I'll address the cliché thing in a moment) and making you care about them and using extensive amounts of emotion. I think there was hardly a single episode in Part 1 where I didn't at least feel a lump in my throat. It's written beautifully

It's not to everyone's tastes, and that's fair enough. To each his own.

Many of the younger generation in particular don't like it because it can go for several episodes at a time without a battle. For me, the battles are a means to an end, not the end itself, the story is where it's at. A lot of anime fans however are only interested in fighting and lose interest at the story bits. Short attention spans etc. I'm not saying everyone who dislikes it does for that reason though... it's just one of the more prevalent reasons I've seen.

Addressing a quote from the 'hate ff7' thread, assuming momiji doesn't mind...

As for the characters, there's the stereotypical Naruto

Personally I've never known a character quite like Naruto, though to be fair I haven't seen masses of anime. I actually started out thinking "why the hell did they pick this guy as the leading role, he's the noisiest shoutiest 'hero' I've ever seen and really rather annoying". I didn't like him. Then you hear all his back-story of all the villagers hating him for what's inside him etc and understand why he is that way and watch his character develop and mature over the years. It's one of the main attractions for me.

In Shippuuden he's quite different... much more mature, a highly skilled ninja and more befitting a main character - yet they were very careful to keep that cheeky, occasionally tactless and slightly noisy streak in him so that he's still Naruto. Character development at its best.

Then there's Sasuke, the typical angry character because he has a chip on his shoulder.

Yeah, I have to admit I don't like the character of Sasuke. He's an annoying selfish little **** (and a hypocrite... he's annoyed because his brother murdered his family so to try and gain power to avenge them he tries to murder his best friend. Riiight.) He doesn't deserve friends like Naruto trying to "save him from the darkness". But I think we're supposed to feel that way... it's all about Naruto's determination and incredible sense of friendship.

Then there's Sakura, whose name is a cliché in and of itself, personality aside. Rock Lee-- typical screw-up with impossible standards for himself. And so on and so forth.

True, many of the other characters are clichés. But hang on... think about it, how many different personalities can you actually come up with that are interesting enough to be included in a story? There's bound to be a bit of repetition between different anime series or games. Heck this is a Final Fantasy forum, we all know about clichés like Selphie/Rikku/Yuffie/Penelo and Cloud/Squall/etc.

There are not many more story-worthy personalities anyone can possibly come up with, IMO. Naruto fans already know what it's like when a character doesn't have a particularly interesting personality (her name's Tenten, even the animators forgot to put her in one of the endings!)

Second of all, where the hell IS the storyline? A good percentage of the series is filler. And what I suppose I saw of the storyline was dull and predictable.

Yes, I'll have to agree with the filler thing. Naruto is the most filler-filled anime ever made, and well documented as such (it went through a whole 2 years of non-stop filler after all the Part 1 material was used up). The storyline is spread very thinly, but it is there. It's about jinchuuriki's trying to get along in life and the reasons they were made that way, to try and sum it up. It's more of an ongoing story than one with a beginning middle and end, IMO, but it depends where Kishimoto decides to take it.

Shippuuden is very slow unfortunately. Everyone hated the years of filler at the end of Part 1, so the anime producers became absolutely paranoid about making sure it doesn't happen again... the end result is that they make almost every episode crawl by at snail's pace, with episodes like a week or two back which consisted of one conversation and a hell of a lot of staring and mood effects.

I think it would be better for them to run the series in bursts once or twice a year (like the BBC do with things like Doctor Who) rather than trying to do 52 episodes a year. The fans would whine about having to wait, but it works for Doctor Who! It makes it feel more worthwhile when it starts running again, and there wouldn't be a need to fret about catching up to the manga and inject tons of filler.

And sorry, the reason it became so popular because it's violent yet kid-friendly enough to be shown during the times children are most likely to watch it. And it's generally the battle scenes that draw them to it. This is because-- like sex, violence sells as well, despite an uninteresting story and lack of interesting characters.

Complete opposite of what I was saying earlier Frankly I think if people are looking for battle scenes they should look elsewhere, especially when you get to Shippuuden. I find the story and characters quite fascinating, and right now they're concentrating on those far more than they are on battles (which is driving the "action" fans absolutely nuts)

Most people who hate Naruto more so just hate what it's associated with and the fan base that surrounds it, much like Halo and FFVII.

Aye, I do believe this to be the case. The likes of Naruto and FFVII tend to attract very dedicated fans who can end up obsessing over it a bit, bringing elements of it into everyday life (oh I don't know... suddenly deciding that Ramen is the best food on the Earth is a popular one) and this tends to come across as a bit retarded and annoys some people. This kind of "fanboyism" tends to rub people up the wrong way. Hence the term 'narutard' (which I do admit to being myself on occasion. I try not to be a "fanboy" in the annoying sense, but I'm a hardened fan of both Naruto and FFVII.)

[Avarice-ness]

I don't mind the manga, as for the anime, no thanks.

[Vermachtnis]

I find it a little fun to watch. As for the anime vs manga I'm up to the fillers and I don't find them too bad so far. And the manga is okay except it seems like the arther is a Sasuke fanboy xD.

[Cloudane]

I don't read the manga (so any manga spoilers in tags please, if people wouldn't mind).

Reading it as black-and-white sketches with no voices or moving music or anything like that has never really appealed to me as the best way to experience such a story. The things that the "Sadness and Sorrow" music did for it for example...

I can see why those who do read the manga dislike the anime though, as by the time you've already seen the storyline and the character development and everything else that's awesome about Naruto, all that's left is the reproduction of the art, the animation, the pacing and the music. Usually, there are at least 2 of them sucking at once - the last 2 especially with Shippuuden.

[Avarice-ness]

I don't read the manga (so any manga spoilers in tags please, if people wouldn't mind).

Reading it as black-and-white sketches with no voices or moving music or anything like that has never really appealed to me as the best way to experience such a story. The things that the "Sadness and Sorrow" music did for it for example...

I can see why those who do read the manga dislike the anime though, as by the time you've already seen the storyline and the character development and everything else that's awesome about Naruto, all that's left is the reproduction of the art, the animation, the pacing and the music. Usually, there are at least 2 of them sucking at once - the last 2 especially with Shippuuden.

I -love- the OST to Naruto, Toshiro Masuda is an awesome composer, but I'd be much happier watching Naruto with music -ONLY-. There's been times where I'd try to watch it and then try to turn the volume down in hopes it'd shut them up and make the music louder. I can't really stand the voices english or japanese, so for me listening to the OST's and reading the manga is the best thing for me.

[Namelessfengir]

I -love- the OST to Naruto, Toshiro Masuda is an awesome composer, but I'd be much happier watching Naruto with music -ONLY-. There's been times where I'd try to watch it and then try to turn the volume down in hopes it'd shut them up and make the music louder.

fox used to do that during one piece low voices and normal music

i really like the series but ive only seen the first 100 episodes subbed (buddy had 7 dvds with about 15 episodes each so i copied them all to tape) so ive seen up to one filler segment where they are guarding some footrace.

i havent seen the english version and have no real desire to do so

my fav character is hinata and only like the naruhina pairing just so she could get more airtime

[Roto13]

Goddamn Narutards.

[Araciel]

Japan sucks.

[Cloudane]

Mature and intelligent posts there, lads :rolleyes2

[Momiji]

As you may guess from my Jiraiya avatar and title, I love it and watch the sub.

I would say it's brilliant, and the proof is that it's so popular and successful. The reason I love it is pretty much the same as why I like FF - it has this brilliant way of drawing you into the characters (I'll address the cliché thing in a moment) and making you care about them and using extensive amounts of emotion. I think there was hardly a single episode in Part 1 where I didn't at least feel a lump in my throat. It's written beautifully

It's not to everyone's tastes, and that's fair enough. To each his own.

Many of the younger generation in particular don't like it because it can go for several episodes at a time without a battle. For me, the battles are a means to an end, not the end itself, the story is where it's at. A lot of anime fans however are only interested in fighting and lose interest at the story bits. Short attention spans etc. I'm not saying everyone who dislikes it does for that reason though... it's just one of the more prevalent reasons I've seen.

Addressing a quote from the 'hate ff7' thread, assuming momiji doesn't mind...

As for the characters, there's the stereotypical Naruto

Personally I've never known a character quite like Naruto, though to be fair I haven't seen masses of anime. I actually started out thinking "why the hell did they pick this guy as the leading role, he's the noisiest shoutiest 'hero' I've ever seen and really rather annoying". I didn't like him. Then you hear all his back-story of all the villagers hating him for what's inside him etc and understand why he is that way and watch his character develop and mature over the years. It's one of the main attractions for me.

In Shippuuden he's quite different... much more mature, a highly skilled ninja and more befitting a main character - yet they were very careful to keep that cheeky, occasionally tactless and slightly noisy streak in him so that he's still Naruto. Character development at its best.

Then there's Sasuke, the typical angry character because he has a chip on his shoulder.

Yeah, I have to admit I don't like the character of Sasuke. He's an annoying selfish little **** (and a hypocrite... he's annoyed because his brother murdered his family so to try and gain power to avenge them he tries to murder his best friend. Riiight.) He doesn't deserve friends like Naruto trying to "save him from the darkness". But I think we're supposed to feel that way... it's all about Naruto's determination and incredible sense of friendship.

Then there's Sakura, whose name is a cliché in and of itself, personality aside. Rock Lee-- typical screw-up with impossible standards for himself. And so on and so forth.

True, many of the other characters are clichés. But hang on... think about it, how many different personalities can you actually come up with that are interesting enough to be included in a story? There's bound to be a bit of repetition between different anime series or games. Heck this is a Final Fantasy forum, we all know about clichés like Selphie/Rikku/Yuffie/Penelo and Cloud/Squall/etc.

There are not many more story-worthy personalities anyone can possibly come up with, IMO. Naruto fans already know what it's like when a character doesn't have a particularly interesting personality (her name's Tenten, even the animators forgot to put her in one of the endings!)

Second of all, where the hell IS the storyline? A good percentage of the series is filler. And what I suppose I saw of the storyline was dull and predictable.

Yes, I'll have to agree with the filler thing. Naruto is the most filler-filled anime ever made, and well documented as such (it went through a whole 2 years of non-stop filler after all the Part 1 material was used up). The storyline is spread very thinly, but it is there. It's about jinchuuriki's trying to get along in life and the reasons they were made that way, to try and sum it up. It's more of an ongoing story than one with a beginning middle and end, IMO, but it depends where Kishimoto decides to take it.

Shippuuden is very slow unfortunately. Everyone hated the years of filler at the end of Part 1, so the anime producers became absolutely paranoid about making sure it doesn't happen again... the end result is that they make almost every episode crawl by at snail's pace, with episodes like a week or two back which consisted of one conversation and a hell of a lot of staring and mood effects.

I think it would be better for them to run the series in bursts once or twice a year (like the BBC do with things like Doctor Who) rather than trying to do 52 episodes a year. The fans would whine about having to wait, but it works for Doctor Who! It makes it feel more worthwhile when it starts running again, and there wouldn't be a need to fret about catching up to the manga and inject tons of filler.

And sorry, the reason it became so popular because it's violent yet kid-friendly enough to be shown during the times children are most likely to watch it. And it's generally the battle scenes that draw them to it. This is because-- like sex, violence sells as well, despite an uninteresting story and lack of interesting characters.

Complete opposite of what I was saying earlier Frankly I think if people are looking for battle scenes they should look elsewhere, especially when you get to Shippuuden. I find the story and characters quite fascinating, and right now they're concentrating on those far more than they are on battles (which is driving the "action" fans absolutely nuts)

Most people who hate Naruto more so just hate what it's associated with and the fan base that surrounds it, much like Halo and FFVII.

Aye, I do believe this to be the case. The likes of Naruto and FFVII tend to attract very dedicated fans who can end up obsessing over it a bit, bringing elements of it into everyday life (oh I don't know... suddenly deciding that Ramen is the best food on the Earth is a popular one) and this tends to come across as a bit retarded and annoys some people. This kind of "fanboyism" tends to rub people up the wrong way. Hence the term 'narutard' (which I do admit to being myself on occasion. I try not to be a "fanboy" in the annoying sense, but I'm a hardened fan of both Naruto and FFVII.)

Of course I don't mind, as long as we can keep the discussion at a level of 'above Narutard', unlike Mr. Sephitachi in the FFVII thread.

I'll put it this way. I've never been a fan of shounen anime, and Naruto is no exception. My dislike is further extended because of the filler, the characters, and the poor dialogue in the US dub (I really won't be bothered to watch the sub if I don't like the concept of the anime, period). Now, if all the unnecessary filler was taken out and put into novel form (not manga), I'm sure I would not mind reading it. I'd rather use my imagination for some of the concepts of the series, to be honest.

As for the characters, I suppose you're right. However, my opinions of the characters remain the same.

And it's fine that you like it, it's just that the 'Naruto>ALL!!!!!!1111one' mindset of the majority of the Narutards drives me insane. And I do respect the fact that you can calmly explain your reasoning despite my hot-headed comments in the FFVII thread. And I'm sure not everyone has my 'magical girlfriend'/moe/romantic comedy (and the occasional shoujo) anime fixation that I have. Basically, what I'm trying to say is: Like what you like, but don't be a closed-minded fool about it and don't shove it down my throat.

And honestly, like what Bahamut2000X was saying, it's the fanbase that annoys me more than the anime (Don't get me wrong, I still hate the anime as well). For example, it's so irritating to see the hopeless Narutards walking around stores and such wearing those silly headbands. Put it this way: would you like to see Chobits fans wearing Persocom ears publicly, or Moon Phase fans wearing neko mimi headbands publicly? Of course not. (Note: Chobits and Moon Phase are my favorite anime series.)

OOC:	Ramen is freaking amazing, and my opinions have never been persuaded by Naruto.

But I guess it's best said this way: I'll like what I like, you like what you like, keep it at that.

[Goldenboko]

I don't think its great, and I don't think its awful. I can find it interesting at times, but there's also times where I just want to punch it in the face. Although, That whole Sasuke V. Naruto match when he was running away was a plethora of crap. Way too many flashbacks I was already sick of Sasuke's flashbacks by then anyway, and really way to random. It was basically, "I have the godly skills," "Ha, now I have teh godly skills," "No I have teh godly skillorz for _________ reason." Instead of making a good close fight they came up with this bull every three seconds to drastically change the tide of the battle.


Other then then I find it mediocre.

EDIT: Although them calling themselves Ninja, and using "Ninjustu" (isn't that how they spell it?) is really bullcrap.

[blackmage_nuke]

Fillers and shippuden anime suck

Manga is pretty cool

I like all the characters.

(SPOILER)And Sasuke isnt a hypocrite, he doesnt try to kill Naruto. Thats a big part of it.
If your basing this off the first few minutes of the shippuden anime then theres a mild surprise coming. (i dont know where the anime is up to right now but its in the manga)