I think that Squall and Seifer are equal in strength. From a gameplay perspective, Seifer is much stronger than Squall.
I think that Squall and Seifer are equal in strength. From a gameplay perspective, Seifer is much stronger than Squall.
I believe in the power of humanity.
After completing the game multiple times, I infer that both characters' strengths have attained an equilibrium. I have reached the conclusion that Squall and Seifer are equally feeble in comparison to the mold that all heroes of modern folklore attempt to fit. The aforementioned mold is none other than that of Carlos "Chuck" Norris. With a simple stroke of his fiery red beard and a moderatly fierce gaze, Sir Norris would simultaneously implode Squall's and Seifer's heads, fill their respiratory systems with sulfur and francium, and force their ascending, transverse, descending and sigmoid colons to spontaneously combust. Then the deity Norris would exhale slightly, yawn, quaintly smirk, wink his left eye, then think to himself, "Hmph, kids." He would then scoop up the fleshy mound of remains and grind them up by placing it between his hands and rubbing them together like Mr. Miyagi does when he fixes Daniel Larusso's leg in The Karate Kid. He then places the ample pile of bone, muscle and entrails on a radiator he tore out of a Peterbilt and roasts it over a fire he built using only water (I didn't believe it either until I witnessed it myself). The result was the first Burger King restaurant. Have it your way? I think not! Have it the Norris way.
Last edited by the lynch clone; 03-26-2008 at 08:15 PM.
I think Seifer is stronger. He was just a strong as Squall in fights usually, and he had the handicap of being hot headed and not being able to think clearly.
Imagine how Seifer would fight with a level head and some discipline!
Squall.
I think the game (and indeed all FF's) needs more duels between hero and villain
...Geddit?
well i think seifer was stronger at the start, but then squall got alot more stronger as the story unfolded.
Made by ME
I agree with that, i also think Squall and Seifer are a lot like Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker, Seifer is more aggressive and strong! But Squall has as much quality and he controls it better.Originally Posted by Katsuna
Just to point out, the only legitimate win Squall has over Seifer one-on-one, in the boss fight at the end of Disk 1, Seifer was out-of-practice.
Well, based on his Odin pwning I'd say Seifer!
I mean, Squall was all like WTF. He obviously didn't think it was remotely possible for Odin to be defeated, so he probably couldn't have done it himself. Seifer could and did.
well seifer still lost, and ofcourse squall wld b like "Wtf" any1 wld if someone just stops a summon.
Made by ME
As far as in-party stats go, Seifer has the edge.
Head-to-head, it varies, though Squall won most of the in-game battles, whether by himself, or with assistance (only one time did an in-game battle between the two end up being indecisive, and that was the battle in the opening sequence).
But looking at it from a much deeper perspective, advantage Squall. I may be stating the obvious with regards to the game's storyline, but I'm doing so to put into perspective as to why Squall is ultimately stronger than Seifer. This is taking into account several factors, including not only head-to-head battles, but other factors as well (that possibly resulted in the outcome of those head-to-head battles), such as discipline, maturity, leadership skills, mental state, and the like.
Seifer has been known to be a showboater. He always sought glory, and eventually, it became his downfall. He was in charge of Balamb Garden's Disciplinary Committee, and it is no coincidence that the other two members of that committee were the only two friends he had; Fujin and Raijin. Now, the purpose of the Disciplinary Committee is to enforce the rules of Garden, but various actions by Seifer in his role as head of the Disciplinary Committee basically tell me that he just flaunts himself with his authority as if he owns the damn Garden, and as if he answers to no one at all, an attitude that will repeat itself in the Field Exam and carry grave consequences. He was named the leader of his squad during the field exam, but his pride enabled him to ignore direct orders to secure the Town Square in Dollet, simply in the name of wanting to be the big hero, and in fact abandoned his own squad. As a result, he failed the Field Exam (thus, failing to become a full-fledged SeeD), while the remainder of his squad (Squall included) passed with flying colors and made SeeD (Zell even passed, despite his own fiery nature). All the pride Seifer had in himself was shattered in an instant, and it did not take long for resentment and envy to creep in, as Seifer escaped from Garden's disciplinary room (a great irony, as he was the head of the Disciplinary Committee) and go vigilante on the very mission his Field Exam squad was sent to. His own mental weakness allowed him to be seduced by the evil influence of the Ultimecia-possessed Edea, and even believed himself to be a Sorceress Knight (in reality, he was more of a Sorceress' enforcer than a Knight, as he had no clue what the true purpose of a Sorceress Knight was). He even went as far as sacrificing his own ex-girlfriend by attempting to Junction her to the reawakened Sorceress Adel (though he was under the influence of Ultimecia, which was made possible due to his weakened mental state). As for his friends, Fujin and Raijin? Well, they eventually left Garden to follow him after Seifer sided with the Ultimecia-possessed Edea, but as soon as they were defeated in Balamb by Squall and Zell, they began to question whether or not Seifer was himself. They stayed by his side for the time-being, but right before the final battle between Squall and Seifer, Fujin and Raijin finally came to terms with the fact that Seifer is no longer the close friend they once knew, and severed ties with him.
In stark contrast, Squall was as antisocial as they came, and his stoic nature was a problem even for Quistis, who at one point knew him better than anyone else at Garden (though that can be attributed to the fact that she had a crush on him). He didn't give a flying smurf about glory or anything of the like. And while Seifer basically flaunted himself as Squad Leader during the Field Mission, Squall's decision-making (despite being under unlawful orders) enabled him to pass the Field Exam with ease. And while Seifer loved being a leader simply to flaunt himself, Squall had no desire at all to be a leader. In fact, Squall was basically forced into a leadership role. And although the first couple of SeeD missions under Squall's leadership resulted in failure, his role in quelling the Norg/Cid power struggle and saving Balamb Garden from the Galbadian missile attack ultimately showed his immediate crew, and ultimately all of Balamb Garden, why he was forced into a leadership role to begin with; he was the one person his acquaintances could count on the most to pull through for them when they were in tough situations. In essence, he was a natural-born leader, whether he liked it or not, a fact that Squall would eventually come to terms with. Headmaster Cid saw this, and placed the entire Garden in Squall's hands. Squall's abilities as a leader were ultimately put to the test in the Battle of the Gardens, as well as Seifer's. While it seemed that Seifer initially had the upper hand, Squall's resolve enabled him to repel the Galbadian assault, and eventually lead his own SeeDs into Galbadia Garden, and eventually took it upon himself to defeat Seifer and put an end to Ultimecia's control over the Matron that once took care of him and his friends during his childhood. However, breaking Ultimecia's control over his one-time Matron came with a price; Squall would nearly lose something dear to him, and the saddest part about that is, he never knew how dear to him it was until it happened. That something dear to him was Rinoa. It was her falling into a coma that made Squall realize that not only did Rinoa successfully manage to slowly but surely crack and shatter his cold exterior (a feat even Quistis failed to accomplish) since they met (despite initial friction between the two), but it made him realize that perhaps he did need someone in his life after all. It also made him realize that the one person he fell in love with was right under his nose, and was completely oblivious to the fact that he fell in love to begin with until he almost lost her. Someone such as Seifer would've just snapped and gone completely insane in that situation, but not someone like Squall. His resolve to get her back out of this state never waivered, but would find out that it was now her that was possessed by Ultimecia, and when Ultimecia left Rinoa to die after she used her to release Adel, Squall still managed to save Rinoa from certain death in space. Squall would learn that the love that was right under his nose but did not realize until her coma was now a Sorceress, and given the tainted history of Sorceresses (possibly tainted solely because of Adel's dictatorship), any ordinary man would have left in fear...not Squall. Unlike Seifer, Squall would learn the true purpose of the Sorceress Knight, and thus vowed to be as such, and I quote, "even if she ends up as the world's enemy". To this end, he has three times rescued Rinoa since she became a Sorceress, once in the aforementioned outer space incident, once from Esthar's Sorceress Memorial (despite Squall surrendering Rinoa to Esthar authorities on the grounds that it was her own decision), and finally from Adel's clutches after Seifer and Ultimecia's attempted junction stunt (though the first two happened before Squall's vow to be her Knight was made in the game's script).
In summary, it is clear that Squall is the stronger of the two. Squall's leadership has been more efficient than Seifer's throughout the course of the game. Squall's initial antisocial attitude and apathy for personal accolades has ultimately made him more mature, more focused, more disciplined, and has strengthened his resolve (which was eventually strengthened even further when Rinoa entered his life), while Seifer's arrogance, pride, and lack of focus & discipline has led him down a destructive path that ultimately became his undoing.
One ironic twist in all of this is the fact that Squall did not want to be a hero, but ended up being one anyway, while Seifer enjoyed the very idea of being a hero and the pride that came with it, but hit rock bottom in the end.
Another ironic twist in all of this is that the once stoic and antisocial Squall earned the respect of his closest acquaintances and accepted them as friends, earned the respect of the entire student body, faculty, and staff of Balamb Garden, and had finally made room in his once-sealed heart for a special someone in his life in the form of Rinoa (despite initial resistance on Squall's part), while the showboating Seifer's closest friends for a long time eventually severed ties with him, but the ending does show Seifer fishing with his friends that had earlier severed ties with him, which probably indicates that he had returned to his old self after the whole Ultimecia ordeal and whatnot; this probably tells me that Seifer realized what had happened to him and had finally come to terms with the fact that he simply wasn't cut out to be the big hero that he always dreamed of being.
Last edited by Bloodline666; 04-01-2008 at 12:56 PM.
Even at the start then Squall just over took him. I still think Seifer was a strong character throughout the game but Squall was always one step ahead physically and mentally.
If I was like Cloud I don't think I would have taken that test.
Changed to stop Jessweeee♪ from going insane. Is that better?
Having just played through the Dollet scenario, I've found Seifer to be the more powerful of the two whilst at the level and without any magic junctions. However, Squall does have a better limit break, I believe.
Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear magazine.
One thing people tend to forget in that "Squall grew stronger mentally than Seifer did" was that Squall had the luxury of improving emotionally.
Seifer? He was mentally manipulated and abused from near the start of the game to pretty much the end of the game. Not only that, he has to constantly fight and get beaten by the woman he used to love... I don't see anyone's mental state improving under these circumstances.
You can argue it was Seifer's own fault but the same could easily have happened to Squall. Ultimecia-Edea played on Seifer's emotional weakness and had she wanted to, she could have easily done the same to Squall. Instead of vanity and pride and dreams, she could use his fear of commitment, his self-imposed detachment from human contact and used that.
Squall and Seifer both started the game with massive holes in their egos. Squall just got lucky enough to fill it in while Seifer did not.
Basically the way I see it
they start the game even, but then they develop differently throughout the game. Because of the way they developed, Squall ends up better than Seifer in tactics, strategy, and leadership. Seifer ends up stronger in pure strength. The simple fact is, if they switched places, and experienced what the other did, they'd be reversed.
Take two dogs, treat one nice all the time, and train it. Versus taking the other one and beating it all the time. One will be a people person, and "think" more and have more talents. The other will be brutal and strong. That's basically how these two were.
THE JACKEL
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That is a very apt analogy. I agree 100%.
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