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Thread: Rinoa is Ultemicia

  1. #91
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serapy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    Actually if you really wanna get into fanboyism, Final Fantasy was named as such because at the time Square was going out of business and they assumed it would be their last project, thus they named it "Final Fantasy" as in "Our Final Fantasy". That still doesn't mean there isn't a direct storyline. Fantasy is also a genre of writing which has a storyline, but exists in a realm that it is impossible for the actions to have occurred in real life (thus making it different from fiction and needing its on genre). It doesn't mean, here's some stuff, now twist the storyline however you please.
    Exactly. Fantasy = incomparable to real life = leads to many things, especially when it comes to time travel. FF8 just made it more mysterious than the other FF games.
    No your missing the point. Fantasy's have storylines. Storylines must be followed, and your disregarding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serapy View Post
    As for the that second part, that is pure speculation and is never even hinted.
    Squall and his party have travelled across generations (alot of years ahead of the present time) to fight Ultimecia. This is one of the future events.

    Years years years ago, the Great Hyne was born and then created Sorceresses. This is one of the past events.

    Statistically (based on years and sorceresses), chances of TC happening for the first time (the one we saw from the game) are quite slim.
    Time Compression has never happened in the game. People can't live in a fully time compressed world. The game states it. Ultimecia tried to, but could only do it with Ellone (the game never states there is another Ellone in the past so saying there is one would be a whole new theory, theories can't exist of other theories), since no sorceress had ever had Ellone no Sorceress could even attempt Time Compression.

    Again start using dialogue from the actual storyline, not theories upon thoeries.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by champagne supernova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Serapy View Post
    Statistically (based on years and sorceresses), chances of TC happening for the first time (the one we saw from the game) are quite slim.
    There is not enough information in Final Fantasy VIII to bring inferential statistics into this discussion.
    The game did state some information about Hyne. The human race must have started since when, thousands of years ago? Take that into consideration and it would make sense.

    Anyway, when Ultimecia needed to cast Time Compression, she needed to cast it in 3 places in time. She was only able to reach the point furthest in the past through the use of Ellone. As the game states that the Junction Machine Ellone cannot go far enough back in time for the purpose of time compression, and that there is only one recorded person who can go back in time (Ellone), it is unlikely that any other sorceress could cast time compression.
    1,000 years and Ellone just happen to be the first person to have this "mysterious" power? I don't know but it doesn't seem right. I'm going to try to explain why and how Ultimecia chose Ellone:

    Matron gained powers off Ultimecia.

    Squall and his friends were given birth, including Ellone and then came to the orphanage and being looked after by Matron.

    Matron gains knowledge about these individuals, including Ellone.

    ((At this point, if Ellone knew that she has the special ability, then maybe that would explain why she left the orphanage mostly because of Matron having Ultimecia's powers.))

    Later in the game, Matron was possessed by Ultimecia. Ultimecia reads her mind and all of sudden, she finds this special information about Ellone. That's when Ultimecia found out about Ellone and began looking for her.

    What I'm saying is that if Ultimecia can find someone like Ellone, then the past Sorceresses with the equal powers as Ulti can do too.
    And anyway, let's assume time compression had occured before. If it had, all events and people would be compressed into one unit of time. This means that there could be no movement through time by these people. Because thee could be no movement in time, this means that none of the events in Final Fantasy VIII could have occured. So, this assumption is found false under evidence, and must be rejected. Therefore, time compression has not EVER happened.
    Events would not have occured? Time Compression doesn't get rid of any event, it just simply combine everything into one (according to Dr Odine). The game didn't explictly state what would happen if Ultimecia successed her plan. And I don't think TC is permanent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko
    Time Compression has never happened in the game. People can't live in a fully time compressed world. The game states it. Ultimecia tried to, but could only do it with Ellone (the game never states there is another Ellone in the past so saying there is one would be a whole new theory, theories can't exist of other theories), since no sorceress had ever had Ellone no Sorceress could even attempt Time Compression.

    Again start using dialogue from the actual storyline, not theories upon thoeries.
    Ultimecia did start Time Compression during near the end of the game. There are some evidences to support this: the FMV of TC demonstrated a tunnel of Time Compression which means that it has just began (also when you view the file name, it has a word of TC), the time loop and Squall and his party went into TC via JME so that they can travel to the future to fight Ultimecia (non-compressed time).

    In the end, when Ultimecia become defeated. She began uncompressing time so that she can go back to the past and pass her powers onto Edea. At that exact point, what do you think what would happen if Ultimecia rejected giving her powers to any body?
    This impact has created a time loop and it will repeat, mostly due to the Time Compression.

  3. #93
    Gold is the new black Goldenboko's Avatar
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    Sure, it may seem un-statistical for only one person to have this power, but the game never hinted there was a race of them, therefore any conjecture that there was is complete speculation and another theory of its own.

    I am away that Compression was started, I said "Life can't live in a fully compressed world." The impact didn't create a loop, it actually created a Time Paradox, but that really is a conversation for another thread.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    Sure, it may seem un-statistical for only one person to have this power, but the game never hinted there was a race of them, therefore any conjecture that there was is complete speculation and another theory of its own.
    You are right. I'm guessing that the reason why the history of FF8 didn't state any information about this mysterious power from others (not Ellone) was because that it was quite uncommon. Ellone could be the first person to unravel her power publicly and that's how more people found out about her and her power. If Ultimecia has never targetted Matron in the first place, there's a chance that this Ellone drama thing would have never existed and nobody would have known that such power existed. I'm also guessing that in the past, Sorceresses have possessed specific people but fortunately, these possessed people didn't have any knowledge of anybody who may have the same power, the same one as Ellone, hench the power remained uncommon. Unlikely but who knows?

    I am away that Compression was started, I said "Life can't live in a fully compressed world." The impact didn't create a loop, it actually created a Time Paradox, but that really is a conversation for another thread.
    Just saying that TC did happen in the game, to some degree, anyway.

    I'm not quite sure about Time Paradox because they are not much of a difference towards Time Loop, but... hmm.

  5. #95
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    A Loop has a definite probability. I go back, stop my grandfather from dying, this makes something worse happen, so someone goes forward in time and stops me. A small loop in time is made from a defined origin, but it can exist.

    A Paradox is different because it can't exist. Ex: I get a ball from someone in the past. This is the first time I ever got the ball. I go back, and give him the ball, and thats how he received it for the first time. Where did the ball come from? It has no defined origin and cannot exist.

    Ultimecia giving her powers to Edea doesn't prove anything, other then the developers wanted to add something interesting in, but created a large paradox.

  6. #96
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    Good thing she's not Ultimecia then! Thanks for clearing that up.
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  7. #97
    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboko View Post
    Ultimecia giving her powers to Edea doesn't prove anything, other then the developers wanted to add something interesting in, but created a large paradox.
    Not at all, there isn't an inherent paradox there - Edea was already a sorceress, after all. She received her 'first' powers when she was a child, which could well mean that Ultimecia simply gave her a 'backup' copy of her own powers.

    However, there was new information was created by that piece of time travel, unless one assumes that Edea would have thought up the idea of Garden and SeeD without Ultimecia appearing before her.

  8. #98

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    id realy love to read some you you guys theories on Lost...
    would be rather wacky

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marky Tee View Post
    id realy love to read some you you guys theories on Lost...
    would be rather wacky
    My friend once joked that the writers of Lost get their ideas by looking for the most outlandish, incomprehensible theories on the forums

  10. #100

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    wouldnt even surprise me

  11. #101

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    They actually took one idea from the forums, which was the hell part.
    Some viewers thought the people in lost had already died and arrived in some sort of "hell" or "afterworld" where they got a chance to set things straight, and if they didnt, they'd pay for it.

    This was beeing said in season 1, before you knew they had found the plane with the false bodies...anyway, long story short, lockes dad thinks its hell, and this idea was taken from the community.

    Edit: Not gonna say anything about the whole R=U thing, I personally think its quite possible, at the same time as it isnt, but from my experience, backink up the theory is worse than thinking 9\11 was an inside job. People will just throw skullskullskullskull at you, and say "its stupid" and leave it there.

  12. #102
    ♥ Mayor of Zozo Avarice-ness's Avatar
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    I'd just like to ask..

    Why is there always a R=U thread in the FFVIII forums shortly after someone closing another R=U thread? What's even worse is that this one seems to have coexisted with 2 R=U threads and still hasn't been grabbed.

    Jesus.

    R=/=U

    This theory has been around for years and I'm pretty sure that every method has been taken to prove it. Why do you think that Squeenix basically told everyone R=/=U? Because they're trying to tell everyone to stop.. yet they never do.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avarice-ness View Post
    I'd just Why do you think that Squeenix basically told everyone R=/=U? Because they're trying to tell everyone to stop.. yet they never do.
    Thats been said for ages, yet I have never seen a link or anything to prove it.
    And dont tell me you read it in some skullskullskullskullskullskullskullskull magazine.

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  14. #104
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    lol, there's still threads like this? XD Geez, at least Future Esthar's was more entertaining. >.>

    The evidence has been challenged and counterpointed. R=/=U; deal with it.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crizpy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Avarice-ness View Post
    I'd just Why do you think that Squeenix basically told everyone R=/=U? Because they're trying to tell everyone to stop.. yet they never do.
    Thats been said for ages, yet I have never seen a link or anything to prove it.
    And dont tell me you read it in some skullskullskullskullskullskullskullskull magazine.

    Kindly don't bypass the swear filter. Thanks! ~ Zeromus
    I'm sure the reason you get no links is because no one wants to spend the money on a japanese guide just to translate it and prove it wrong. I don't see why since 1999 that people would lie about the guide saying R=/=U though, but then again, I don't see why people still argue this theory, so to each his own.

    If you'd like to buy it and see for youself, feel free, then please scan the page talking about sorceresses life spans and post it:

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