Square-Enix's Remakes and Spins-off VS Final Fantasy Fandom.

[Takara]

This is nothing new; ever since the company released its first real sequel to a Final Fantasy title, Final Fantasy X-2, fans have been divided. Some are glad for the universe of their favourite installment being expanded, while others decry that whenever S-E releases a new remake or spin-off, there is a perversion of the original title. This is especially true when elements that have been canon, sometimes for as much of a decade, are retconned by the new material.

Now, while I understand that S-E is a company, and that companies must create new stuff to continue to make money to create even more stuff and pay their employees, are they being fair to their fanbase? The company may legally own the franchise on paper, but after sharing these titles with the public for twenty years now, can we even say Final Fantasy belongs ONLY to Square-Enix? Especially when it is often the fans, as opposed to Square-Enix' marketting department, that have been keeping the interest in the older titles alive by building websites like this one, writing fanfiction, drawing fanarts, et cetera. Do the fans even have the right to be upset when the creative minds of S-E does something new?

What are your thoughts?

[Bolivar]

I think the american fanbase has been divided since VII. Considering alot of people buy and enjoy the remakes and spinoffs, it's kind of weird to assume the fanbase is being somehow cheated. It hasn't stopped new and fun games from being made, either.

[Rostum]

Crisis Core was absolutely awesome.

[Wolf Kanno]

For the most part, I feel the series belongs to SE and they are allowed to do as they damn well please with it. Granted I don't always agree with them and in the case of sequels and spin-offs (in terms of the main FF series. Non-FF titles like Front Mission, Mana series, and Chrono series need more love) , I am strongly opposed to them. But some people want to see their favorite characters again... no matter how badly the company rapes and pillages their name...

But the thing is, if you don't like it... Don't buy it. SE keeps churning out bad sequels and spin-offs cause someone keeps buying them. I've only dealt with the Compilation cause my friends are hopeless VII fanboys, so I borrow what I can and X-2 was a Christmas gift... I haven't played Revenant Wings or TA2 so I can't make any judgement on them.

Its odd this topic comes up since I recently finished Crisis Core and must say its a horrible disaster that tarnishes the original game. In fact, with the exception of Last Order, I don't think anything good has come from the Compilation.

[Big D]

If someone's gonna say that fantasy sequels inherently suck, they'd need to bear in mind that The Lord of the Rings was originally requested, and intended, as a sequel to The Hobbit.

The Final Fantasy sequels are what we make of them. And what Square-Enix makes of them. A chance to expand a story, continue it, or even examine it from a whole new perspective. A sequel has the potential to go well, or go badly - but overall, I'd say there's a marginally higher chance of it going badly, since there's the built-in tendency to rely on the popularity of the previous work. It's not often a sequel needs an entirely new cast and new world, after all, so there's less 'creativity' going into it by default.

[hhr1dluv]

Wow Wolf Kanno, I think you're the first person I've seen who loathes Crisis Core. I haven't played it yet, but I'm interested in what has displeased you so much. It's supposed to better than some in the main series. Apparently.

As for sequels, Square Enix has complete control over its own properties. I've learned that owners tend to ruin their own works given enough time, and often care little about what fans think (::cough::JK Rowling::cough:. As long as the product still sells, all is hunky-dory.

To be fair though, I think the only thing FF-wise that seems to be universally disliked is Dirge of Cerberus. I think that's the only one I've disliked.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wow Wolf Kanno, I think you're the first person I've seen who loathes Crisis Core. I haven't played it yet, but I'm interested in what has displeased you so much. It's supposed to better than some in the main series. Apparently.

I'm also one of the few people who truly hates KHII story (though I love CoM) as well as FFX, so I'm automatically an odd duck on these forums. Crisis Core is not entirely a bad game but it unecessarily messes with canon (all so it can tie in its throw away villain :rolleyes2 ) In fact, if CC didn't have Genesis and tried its best to be "epic" then it would have been a great game storywise. I love Zack but CC was not what I wanted for him. There are other issues but this is not the place to discuss them. CC was just disappointing to me but I'm certain most VII fanboys will treat it like the Holy Grail.

Problems arise in sequels and prequels when the intellectual property itself was created to be stand alone. Then when the other stories are made, they feel they need to have the stories just as wild and epic even though in order to create more tension we have to add to the mythos. Sometimes it works most of the time it doesn't, but mostly cause the new elements feel tacked on or just completely foreign. Other issues appear when the added material starts changing the original canon. For instance, according to the Compilation, there are four different versions of the Nibelheim incedent where Sephiroth goes crazy. Even more amusing is that even the Compilations Ultimania guide points this out and never states which is canon...

For the FF series, though many of them could easily have prequels and a few sequels, most were made with a looming sense of finality. My favorite of the main series is VI and I don't believe its possible to create an epic sequel from it. On the other hand, XII was written in such a way where the player only caught a glimpse of the world. It could easily have sequels or prequels.

[Obsidian]

In the case of X-2, FF fans have always been accustomed to having a numbered FF game tell a complete and rounded-off story that does not lend itself to a sequel. In addition to breaking that tradition, X-2 was also a girl-power fest that simply did not... speak to a wide fanbase.

VII has become laden with sequels and prequels simply because its rabid fanbase has done nothing but grow for over a decade. I think VII told a very satisfying story on its own and feel that all of the new games/movies we have been seeing of VII over the past few years are completely unessecary. I recently played through VII again and watched Advent Children immediately afterwards, and the addition of that movie's storyline to VII's cosmos was just silly and unrewarding. Pretty, but ultimately superfluous. :rolleyes2

[The Crystal]

This is nothing new; ever since the company released its first real sequel to a Final Fantasy title, Final Fantasy X-2, fans have been divided.

The first real sequel to a Final Fantasy was the sequel of FFV, released as an OVA.

Some are glad for the universe of their favourite installment being expanded, while others decry that whenever S-E releases a new remake or spin-off, there is a perversion of the original title. This is especially true when elements that have been canon, sometimes for as much of a decade, are retconned by the new material.

I'm part of the first group. If something is good, why stop it?

Now, while I understand that S-E is a company, and that companies must create new stuff to continue to make money to create even more stuff and pay their employees, are they being fair to their fanbase?

I think they are. The fact people are buying the games, means they are still interested.
So, nothing more fair than giving to the fans what they want.

The company may legally own the franchise on paper, but after sharing these titles with the public for twenty years now, can we even say Final Fantasy belongs ONLY to Square-Enix?

Yes. They created it and it belongs to them.

Especially when it is often the fans, as opposed to Square-Enix' marketting department, that have been keeping the interest in the older titles alive by building websites like this one, writing fanfiction, drawing fanarts, et cetera.

And S-E have been kipping the interest in the older titles, by remaking them to new platforms.

Do the fans even have the right to be upset when the creative minds of S-E does something new?

Of course they have. But the real question is: If it upsets the fans, why they continue to buy the games?

What are your thoughts?

My thought is that S-E is giving what the fans wants. If that wasn't the case, S-E would have to stop making the games, simply because no one would be buying them.

[Gilghamut]

I'm fine with SE making spin-offs, or sequels, of their games, I really like to see more of some of the numbered games' characters and world and so I will most likely take a look at whatever is released. I played X-2 and while it's somewhat of a fun game, I thought the ending wasn't as good as X, so I (taking a similar idea to Seymour's advice to the group in X) 'pretend' it doesn't exist (as canonical).

I really wouldn't mind seeing a new console game that takes place in either the world of FFVII, FFIX, or FFXII with different characters and a new story that doesn't have anything to do with the previously mentioned games.

[mose-schrute]

People are going to buy the games. If you don't think you'll like it, don't buy it. It's that simple. Enough people are going to buy it to keep sales up. I wonder why this is somewhat hard for people to understand. You won't have something ruined for you if you don't play it. A lot of people really want change, there's a new generation of gamers coming and they are more into action games and will say "Whoa! I'm getting into random battles! I don't know what to do!". This makes it seem like the older fans of FF are being left behind so perhaps these sequels and prequels are what SE THINKS is going to make us happy and what better game to do this with than FFVII, it's kind of the "official FF" game in a way. The one you see talked about most (in places other than this forum). I think that we as the older fans are getting selfish with what SE does. They are obviously doing something right if people still buy their games.

P.S. I am not a big fan of FFVII and Cloud isn't my hero.

[Crossblades]

At first, I was somewhat against the idea of SE making sequels and spinoffs. But then I warmed up to it, and I dont really mind now. It makes the series a bit more unique. When you think about it, almost all series(whether it be video games, movies, or even anime)has sequels and spinoffs. One series that comes to mind is Gundam. If I'm not mistaken, almost half the series are sequels.

[Bolivar]

This is nothing new; ever since the company released its first real sequel to a Final Fantasy title, Final Fantasy X-2, fans have been divided.

The first real sequel to a Final Fantasy was the sequel of FFV, released as an OVA.

Some are glad for the universe of their favourite installment being expanded, while others decry that whenever S-E releases a new remake or spin-off, there is a perversion of the original title. This is especially true when elements that have been canon, sometimes for as much of a decade, are retconned by the new material.

I'm part of the first group. If something is good, why stop it?

Now, while I understand that S-E is a company, and that companies must create new stuff to continue to make money to create even more stuff and pay their employees, are they being fair to their fanbase?

I think they are. The fact people are buying the games, means they are still interested.
So, nothing more fair than giving to the fans what they want.

The company may legally own the franchise on paper, but after sharing these titles with the public for twenty years now, can we even say Final Fantasy belongs ONLY to Square-Enix?

Yes. They created it and it belongs to them.

Especially when it is often the fans, as opposed to Square-Enix' marketting department, that have been keeping the interest in the older titles alive by building websites like this one, writing fanfiction, drawing fanarts, et cetera.

And S-E have been kipping the interest in the older titles, by remaking them to new platforms.

Do the fans even have the right to be upset when the creative minds of S-E does something new?

Of course they have. But the real question is: If it upsets the fans, why they continue to buy the games?

What are your thoughts?

My thought is that S-E is giving what the fans wants. If that wasn't the case, S-E would have to stop making the games, simply because no one would be buying them.

to the point, and hits the nail on the head.

[Forsaken Lover]

Well, as you said, the fanbase is divided. People with brains on one side and people who’d buy toenail clippings if Square offered them.

The fanboy logic is inherently “Square Good. Game Good. Fire Bad”. Using this caveman mentality, we’ve gotten Ehrgeiz. That should end the thread right there but it won’t.
“Square owns the product they can do whatever they want” is the same kind of thinking that also led to Godfather Part III and of course Jaws: The Revenge.

There’s really no point in asking a board full of people with this kinda brain function, or lack thereof, do they think sequels are a bad idea. OF COURSE THEY’RE NOT! Square made them.! The fact Square makes them SHOWS they are good. BURN THE HERETICS!

If they make it, fanboys will buy. I can see it now....a sequel to Field of Dreams. Everyone would come to the theater to see it because it would be made by Universal Studios. Of course the plot would be if you make a ping pong table you can get all the great ping pong champions to come play and it would be directed by Uwe Boll...
But it be good by dammit! Why? Well...there’s actually no reason when you use your brain. But if you turn off that pesky little annoyance you can see why it’s good.
Answer: Because it wouldn’t have been made if it wasn’t good and people didn’t want it.

And what of the fanbase? The people who actually care about the games? Pft. They don't matter. Square's execs, the people who care about money, matter! To hell with the people who spend days upon days doing work and thinking and almost obsessing over these games! Their acute knowledge and attention to detail means jack!
Ah...reminds me of Karen Traviss. She writes SW stories. She openly admits she doesn't read other SW material to learn stuff about the very universe she's supposed to be writing about.
But OF COURSE she's more important and better than the real SW fans!

To summarize my rant, it’s the fanbase vs. fanboys & Square-Enix. It’s the sad truth that, with like Advent Children and now Versus XIII, people just don’t hardly care anymore. Back around IX and X, a new FF title was the talk of the net. Now...thanks to the spin-offs and sequels, most hardly give a .

Oh and yes fanboys, I did not say everyone. I made a general statement and thus correcting me by saying “well, I look forward to it!” doesn’t matter to me.

Also, FFX-2 was at least a passable game. Much better than Advent Children or Dirge of Cerberus. Well, it’s to be expected. FFX’s plot was way superior to VII’s in...well...every way.

P.S.
Also the remake of Oceans Eleven and its two sequels... Really. I not only put nails in the coffin, I blew it up with a rocket launcher with those examples.

[mose-schrute]

I like how people are talking about XIII and it's not even close to coming out yet. Maybe you should wait until it's out to bash it.