aaah i see lol. And then Beatrix was a bitch for a bit before being nice lol! all makes sense now! lol
aaah i see lol. And then Beatrix was a bitch for a bit before being nice lol! all makes sense now! lol
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Who? Who has actually stated "the only reason I liked FFVII is because I thought Sephiroth looked cool"? When I made a thread asking why people liked it, the #1 reason was STORY.
This is an attempt to explain why people cannot possibly have a different opinion than you do for legitimate reasons. The inability to relate to different people and perspectives is a clear indicator of underdevelopment as a human being.
Way to ignore the intention of my post there.
It was a response to this.
I was saying that's hardly a good reason to judge what games better.
And as far as people liking the game for stupid reasons like Sephiroth looking cool and his sword, there aren't that many floating around this site.
But other sites I've seen many people admit that, in addition to personal experience thats why a lot of people like the game.
No one ever said people can't like it for different reasons.
I'm simply saying Sales isn't really the greatest judge of what game is better.
I always thought that IX's sales were down because the PS2 had just come out? I wonder, did the same sort of thing affect XII's sales?
Also, was/is there a sort of rivalry between Steiner and Beatrix? It must be weird having two separate captains for two separate factions of knights or whatever.
From what I did play of IX, I remember really enjoying clanking around as Steiner at the very beginning, looking for the other knights. Actually, something I liked a lot about IX is how you take control of so many different characters right from the beginning. You're Zidane, Vivi, and Steiner while you're still doing intro stuff. I always appreciate multiple perspectives in games. FFX was a bit disappointing, since you only get to play as Tidus and then as Yuna briefly.
I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VII: DoC, VII: CC, VIII, X, X-2, XII, KH, KH:CoM, Re:CoM, KHII, CT
Lord I've been avoiding this thread for ages... (I'm also ignoring your slams to VI Bolivar) IX was at one time my 2nd favorite main line FF. A second playthrough and the addition of a few other FF titles, it has dropped to my fourth possibly fifth favorite slot. Course, I'm due for another playthrough but I'm going in order so I need to finish VII (playing right now) and VIII first.
Overall I feel IX is a superb game and its my favorite of the PSX generation. This does not mean I don't believe its flawless. I will agree that the battle system is slower than previous installments (though I disagree with you Bolivar about VII being fast... its average at best IMO) but to its defence, the ealier games didn't have either loading times or a fourth party member eating up processing power. I still feel IV is the slowest of the ATB systems though. Though I really never cared for the skill system. Of anything, it lacks originalty outside of the Trance system but I felt it was a well polished and tweaked version of the battle system. Not a drastic change, but I feel it plays quite smoothly especially considering it doesn't use a "clone" system like the previous installments
Its design I like to think of as "dark fairy" tale cause to be honest, cartoony mean something looks cute and that only applies to Vivi and he's cute in a rather gothic way. I personally enjoy the art style but alot of people either don't understand it or appreciate it. Fact is, outside its peculiar art style IX is the darkest game in the series. The subject matter of IX is much darker than the likes of X, VII and even VI and it does have the highest body count (they didn't mean it literally shown Bolivar) with every major capital wiped out hell the opening of the game shows the faint memory of Garnet watching her homeland and people destroyed, by her future lover no less. Hell most of the planet is unihabitable to begin with at the start of the game. Its like VI opening up in the Ruined World.
We're talking about a game where artificail souls are made to become weapons and the discussion of what constitutes as human (or as close to human as you get in the IX world) or just naturally alive. IX takes on a philisophical debate that most won't go down. VII had the "cycle of life" theme which was good though a little too hippie for my taste. VIII fails to touch on a myriad of controversial subjects like war and child soldiers (closest we get is a monologue from Squall before the Edea assassination mission) IX touches on what Life is, expressed by the fact that each character represents a path one takes to bring meaning to their lives. Quina is physical indulgence, Freya seeks love, Steiner is duty, Amarant is pride(psychological indulgence), Eiko seeks companionship, Garnet seeks personal freedom, Zidane is utilitarianism, and Vivi is the seeker of a path. The meaning of Life theme in IX is expressed rather well through the personal stories of each of its characters.
Not since FFV has an entire cast of characters been important or have a real reason to be there from either a story standpoint or an alligorical one. IX lacks some originality but most FFs do, but I do feel the original elements in IX are well crafted and wonderful.
Though concerning its love story... I didn't like it. It was a little too cliche for my taste. I never really felt like Garnet and Zidane had real conflict and the romance was pretty sappy. Sorry Sakeguchi, but IX still proves you can't write love stories (don't worry though, Nojima write and even more cliched and terrible love story in the game that follows
BTW Bolivar, someday you will have to lend me your golden copy of VII bestowed upon you by the gods. I'm halfway through the near perfect 1st Disc (before I get to the bad part of the game, namely the 2nd and 3rd Discs) and I still feel that VII, in terms of quality and depth, feels like a well polished 16-bit RPG (Like FFVI and CT) in a 32-bit package. I'm still waiting for this "Revolution" you speak of.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
Most definitely. At the beginning of the game. That rivalry sort of peters out when Steiner joins Zidane though, which is very early on.Also, was/is there a sort of rivalry between Steiner and Beatrix?
Wouldnt totally agree with that. Zidane has too much empathy to be truly utilitarianistic IMO. What he did at the end of the game, going to save Kuja seemes like a decision from the heart rather than one from the head. I also disagree with your opinions on the love story etc.Zidane is utilitarianism,
But that was a very nice post.
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
In hindsight, I think compassion is a better path to represent Zidane actually. You're right, Zidane is somewhat selfish.
I fight with most people on these forums concerning love stories cause I feel most of them are pretty generic and there for the sake of being there. But that doesn't mean we can't agree to disagree, right?
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
^Im right your wrong. Im God and your not. And there is nothing you can do about it!
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
Thats fine, I'm considered to be the Devil anyway...^Im right your wrong. Im God and your not. And there is nothing you can do about it!
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
I want to know what really started that rivalry. Didn't he like take out her eye or something?
You will always be less powerful than me.Thats fine, I'm considered to be the Devil anyway...^Im right your wrong. Im God and your not. And there is nothing you can do about it!
They never say that Steiner took her eye out. I doubt he did since I assume Beatrix lost her eye whilst fighting enemies of Alexandria. I think the rivalry just stems from the two of them both wanting their army of knights to be the most powerful in Alexandria.I want to know what really started that rivalry. Didn't he like take out her eye or something?
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
There’s worlds of difference between a single dark moment and a continuous line of deaths.Finally, I just want to say that your standards for defining a child's movie/game are ungrounded. PLENTY of dark moments happen in Disney movies, Bambi's mother dies, and that was pretty damn sad.
A single dark moment in a children-style movie or game would be Simba’s pop biting it. Or Littlefoot’s mother.
FFIX does not just have a few deaths...it has untold numbers of death and two practical genocides. First the living Burmecians all fled to Cleyra and that place was promptly wiped from the face of the planet. We know a few survived but not many.
Then we know every single Black Mage will die and judging by their numbers, we’re talking hundreds if not thousands. I view it as genocide as they’re made to die by their very design but I guess it can be disputed if it actually was.
Then there’s all the other regular people who were killed throughout the game. Add that to the original people of Terra who all died with Pandemonium. Wait, that’s 3 genocides. Wait, is it genocide when you kill all the souls of a race? Well, I guess it should count.
This is not a children’s movie I’m afraid. And if it is, someone please fetch this poor lad a therapist. He’ll need one.
Well, it's been quite a while since I've played VII and VIII, and so my opinion may not be the most accurate there is. However, I would just like to post it here.
I concentrate a lot on character development and plotline when I'm playing RPGs. Although VII was rather enjoyable, I didn't exactly like having to tolerate Cloud's ongoing lamentations about his uselessness and Sephiroth's rather annoying clones. I was rather glad that Aerith/Aeris died, as I found her rather annoying. In fact, I found character development had slacked off in this game.
As for VIII, I also found that enjoyable. The system was different to the previous Final Fantasy instalments, and the new names for magic excited me even more. However, character development was still lacking somewhat, as most characters were, although different, rather simplistic in personality. I also felt that Ultimecia was just thrown in as a villian, and I do admit that the romance between Squall and Rinoa was a little rushed.
With Final Fantasy IX, I guess the only problem with its popularity is the fact that it was released just before the PS2 came out. Although I don't mind the odd steampunk and futuristic feel of video games, I felt that IX was better reflecting the original FF's feel. Then again, I am a rather avid fan of the theme of fantasy, so my say may be rather exaggerated.
I was immensely pleased with character development; it was complex yet understandable and more realistic than VIII's. I myself am rather fond of Quina, Steiner and Vivi; Quina had the undivided curiousity that a younger daredevil might have, Steiner was loyal to the end (although I haven't really met any tremendously loyal people these days) and Vivi was just...Vivi, with the naivety of a nine-year-old. To me, a majority of the characters acted their age, which I found was just spectacular. Yes, the graphics may have protrayed the characters slightly younger than they should, but I wouldn't call it chibi.
...And that's pretty much my opinion of the things I liked with the three aforementioned games and my comparisons to them. Feel free to correct me.
Last edited by _yeojina_; 04-29-2008 at 06:54 AM.
Let's kick Emerald Weapon's arse with Vincent's Death Penalty in one shot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cXfeCC6_ac
Forsaken Lover, I'm just going to get this out of the way real quick and say this: The Lion King is 1 + 1/2 hours long, Final Fantasy IX is a 35-hour experience. Didn't all the outcasts/hyenas try to slaughter the entire race of lions/lionesses? Well, in addition to Simba's pops, that's one parent's death and one attempted genocide, that might actually be a higher ratio of "dark-scenes : hours", if that's really the way you wanna look at it.
And yo, Kanno, what's up with all the direct references to me in your post? Well, in the spirit of tradition, I'll just say this:
1) Again, compare Ice in FFVII to Ice in FFVIII or IX. Or compare the way your ATB bars move to the way you just kinda sit there with everyone full for the second half of FFVI (what a terrible game...)
2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
3) There was philosophy in the others. While VIII strayed away from the obvious choice of war and child soldiers, it heavily dealt with the question "what is the right way to live?" or "what is the right way to deal with others?", which I think is more substantive in the end, keeping the obvious choices at bay. VII also exposed some serious contradictions in society and posed questions on our relationship to the planet. But that doesn't make you wrong - IX definately had alot of
substantive stuff in there.
4) I agree again that it hasn't been since V that the entire cast of characters actually mattered, and alot. I do have to say this: I feel that out of the entire main series, FFIX has the least amount of flaws out of any Final Fantasy game, or at least is the most well-rounded in the series.
5) I'm glad you see things my way concerning the love story. Too many of the pessimists in your camp happen to overlook this while parading IX around the internet as a triumph over Tetsuya Nomura.
6) Concerning my golden copy of FFVII bestowed upon me by the gods, I lost the second disk, but I'm sure you could get it from anyone who happened to write a review for it in 1997.
7) I actually know exactly what you mean (what's up with all this agreement stuff all-of-a-sudden?) about FFVII feeling like a polished 16-bit RPG. That brings me to yet another honor I like to bestow to it, as it's "The last of the old, and the first of the new". For example, it was the last game to have a blue statistics window all along the bottom of the battle screen. However, the sheer amount of text alone, even in a single line by a character, was very distinct from 16-bit RPGs. "Nobodey lives in the slums because they want to. It's like this train, it can only go where its rails take it" exemplifies how this text revolution was not just quantitative, but qualitative. RPG protagonists simply didn't use metaphors for social commentary. The biggest way in which it shattered 16-bit RPGs were the triggering of events. Beforehand, characters could only walk up to eachother and speak to initiate an interaction. Setzer's Sephiroth-esque leap down to Celes was a huge jump (no pun intended), but in VII you had people poppin up ontop of helicopters, and jumping down to catch ropes to climb up onto airships. On one hand, the dialogue and character development doesn't go as far as later titles, so it does feel like that, but in other ways it did so many things that simply could not have been done on a Super NES. First of the old, last of the new, son....
Anyway I just want to say I'm glad to see that this thread has gone on for 7 pages, that this particular topic is getting the attention that it deserves. Like i've said already, I feel these are the 3 best entries in the series and it's always a tossup as to how I would actually rank them.
I'm off to Groznyj Grad to take care of some unfinished business before I gotta head back to Liberty City tomorrow.
No the heyenas needed the lionesss to hunt food for them. They heyenas didn't do anything until Simba reappeared.
You're my special sparring buddyAnd yo, Kanno, what's up with all the direct references to me in your post? Well, in the spirit of tradition, I'll just say this:
I don't understand what you mean about VI but I do recognize the difference in comparison to later games, I mostly blame it on the SFX department wanting to make things more spectacular looking.1) Again, compare Ice in FFVII to Ice in FFVIII or IX. Or compare the way your ATB bars move to the way you just kinda sit there with everyone full for the second half of FFVI (what a terrible game...)
Cuteness is all in the eye of the beholder... besides it took me till Cleyra to realize what exactly Freya was...2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
Though I feel VIII did have some moral philosophy to it, I just didn't feel like it was as strongly told as VII or IX. Though VII does have some social commentary, it dropped halfway through the story (after Rocket Town its never really touched upon again) I feel the theme of Life and man's relationship to nature was told more strongly. IX touches on a few other themes as well but its the theme of "The Meaning of Life" thats held throughout the storyand the strongest. To me, VIII has a few themes but I never felt it was told as a major focus like the other two.3) There was philosophy in the others. While VIII strayed away from the obvious choice of war and child soldiers, it heavily dealt with the question "what is the right way to live?" or "what is the right way to deal with others?", which I think is more substantive in the end, keeping the obvious choices at bay. VII also exposed some serious contradictions in society and posed questions on our relationship to the planet. But that doesn't make you wrong - IX definately had alot of
substantive stuff in there.
Glad we can actually agree on something...4) I agree again that it hasn't been since V that the entire cast of characters actually mattered, and alot. I do have to say this: I feel that out of the entire main series, FFIX has the least amount of flaws out of any Final Fantasy game, or at least is the most well-rounded in the series.
Surprised we agreed on this but seriously, I feel love stories should be in the background so when it starts to take center stage like in IX and X, I get annoyed especially since they were both so damn predictable. The only two I tolerate is VI and VIIs. VI is predictable but its told sparingly and it is associated with one of the most memorable scenes in FF history. VII is never defined and there is no clear outcome. Its lack of conclusion feels more realistic to me.5) I'm glad you see things my way concerning the love story. Too many of the pessimists in your camp happen to overlook this while parading IX around the internet as a triumph over Tetsuya Nomura.
I didn't agree with the reviewers then and 11 years later I still don't.6) Concerning my golden copy of FFVII bestowed upon me by the gods, I lost the second disk, but I'm sure you could get it from anyone who happened to write a review for it in 1997.
I agree that its the little nuances that make both VI and VII stand out (as well as all the FFs actually), from VI's variety of sprite expressions and wonderful use of music to heighten a story scene; to VII's expansion of gameplay options (snowboarding, CPR mini-game, Chocobo Breeding) and a greater use of tech space to creat larger more detailed worlds. The early games had to tell dramatic moments with very little text and restricted movements but VII was actually a start saying such things in a more relaxed manner.7) I actually know exactly what you mean (what's up with all this agreement stuff all-of-a-sudden?) about FFVII feeling like a polished 16-bit RPG. That brings me to yet another honor I like to bestow to it, as it's "The last of the old, and the first of the new". For example, it was the last game to have a blue statistics window all along the bottom of the battle screen. However, the sheer amount of text alone, even in a single line by a character, was very distinct from 16-bit RPGs. "Nobodey lives in the slums because they want to. It's like this train, it can only go where its rails take it" exemplifies how this text revolution was not just quantitative, but qualitative. RPG protagonists simply didn't use metaphors for social commentary. The biggest way in which it shattered 16-bit RPGs were the triggering of events. Beforehand, characters could only walk up to eachother and speak to initiate an interaction. Setzer's Sephiroth-esque leap down to Celes was a huge jump (no pun intended), but in VII you had people poppin up ontop of helicopters, and jumping down to catch ropes to climb up onto airships. On one hand, the dialogue and character development doesn't go as far as later titles, so it does feel like that, but in other ways it did so many things that simply could not have been done on a Super NES. First of the old, last of the new, son....
"Son"? Haven't been called that in years... I'll buy you a drink if I ever meet you in person and we can discuss this.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
Steiner’s a self-righteous fat guy in rusty armor.2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
Fraya is a giant rodent. And not a cute rodent like a bunnygirl...hm...bunnygirls. Wait. Forget that.
Quina is jus.t...it’s Quina. Not cute, not ugly...just Quina.
I understand Colonel Volgin is expecting you in his quarters.I'm off to Groznyj Grad to take care of some unfinished business before I gotta head back to Liberty City tomorrow.
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