Doctor Who

[smittenkitten]

(SPOILER)I think that last episode was a bit all over the place. It could be put as a bit over the top but it is Doctor Who. :rolleyes2 I think that Davros will survive.

Now we wait for the Cybermen to come. Oh it gives me shivers when they put those things into your brain. I think that Moffat will be brilliant and I thought the Blinking episode was amazing. It creeped me out though, I'll never turn my back to statues. :__;

[Captain Maxx Power]

Personally I view DW as purposefully campy, frothy nonsense that revels in it's own clichés, in-jokes and silliness. Sure it has it's moment of really good drama, but come on people this is meant to be a kids/family show. If you want adult broody Sci-Fi go watch the new Battlestar Gallatica.

[smittenkitten]

Personally I view DW as purposefully campy, frothy nonsense that revels in it's own clichés, in-jokes and silliness. Sure it has it's moment of really good drama, but come on people this is meant to be a kids/family show. If you want adult broody Sci-Fi go watch the new Battlestar Gallatica.

Well I'M not an adult! ...

[Big D]

The fourth new series has just started in my country, and while Voyage of the Damned was slightly absurd and unoriginal, I'm looking forward to the rest of the new series. Thanks to everyone for using spoiler tags in this thread, I appreciate it.

Sci-fi doesn't have to have any bearing on the real world, but it does have to be coherent. Doctor Who isn't sci-fi, it's just silliness that uses sci-fi tropes.

Eh... I'd say Doctor Who does fairly well with internal consistency. The fact that it treats time as malleable means that events can be re-written and re-told; and the scale of time and distance involved in his travels means you often get fanciful places and events that are simply too alien to rationalise in everyday human terms. The biggest weakness of most other sci-fi is that it tries to explain itself in terms and ideas that are fully comprehensible to the minds and understandings of the audience - so you get "aliens" that are basically human but with different names for things, and scientific phenomena that are rooted solely in 20th-century physics and too scared to venture far beyond that. The strength of Doctor Who is its willingness to go to speculative extremes, bringing in ideas and aliens that *are* beyond comprehension, or that defy conventional explanation.

The Regeneration completely changes him, doesn't it?

Not completely, but it does change his personality somewhat. Also, simply having a younger body again could make him more energetic and enthusiastic.

I rather like the fact that he's not just a traveller and problem-solver, but a fighter too. Someone entrusted with a lot of power and responsibility, though, so he won't arbitrarily turn to violence to solve every problem. Yet when the time comes, he can be as ruthless as is needed to stop threats that are truly evil.

[Iceglow]

Well the whole thing is this:

Ecclestone's doctor was fresh out of the Time Wars where the Time Lords and the Daleks pursued each other to destruction. The Tardis was the last ship from Gallafrey to survive the Time Wars and on board was just The Doctor. They wrote the former Doctors in as part of the Time Wars. The Time Wars being over but he's not quite past the fact that he's seen his entire race destroyed. He would be rightfully suffering from several issues (please think how soldiers can be affected by seeing their entire unit killed) He is bitter and resents the fact that he could not save the other Time Lords and thus must now see to the future of the Galaxy and with it Humanity by himself. It was written in the story that whilst the Doctor dislikes weapons he was not in experienced in their use. He is perfectly capable of making and using a dalek destroying gun. Ecclestone's Doctor whilst determined not to fail to protect Humanity (afterall they are probably the closest race to Time Lords in anycase) views them as ignorant, arrogant, stressing creatures. He isn't wrong humanity is we believe we are lords of everything and that if there is anything out there it would bow to our superiority and make peace. I fully believe that if there are species out there capable of interstellar transit of the scale necessary to get here then they'll be the ones we'll be fawning to if they don't just kill us for having stupid leaders. He protected humanity but found it stressful to do so. Rose however was his saviour, when he most needed but least wanted company she provided him with it. When he needed a touch of humanity to show compassion when his every instinct told him not to then she was there to show him he needed to be like that. She taught him a lot and whilst Jack came along and threw his love works spanner in and Mickey tried his best too it was clear that the Doctor was beginning to fall for Rose Tyler. Mickey and Jack kinda became the background characters doing the menial tasks that they couldn't get rose or the doctor to do without us going "what the smurf?"

Rose then gets locked away in the alternate universe and Ecclestone becomes Tennant. Tennant is still very obviously in love with Rose but cannot have her and thus a short parade of assistants ensues. Including in the xmas special Kylie. The difference is now the doctor loves someone, the emotions he has are no longer surpressed behind the veil of resentment after all how can you resent what you love? You either love or resent not both. He truly realizes just how vital and great humanity can become with him guiding them and just how evil and wrong they can become without him. This is shown in the character Harriet Jones. The thing is, I do agree that the Doctor has become too soft towards his sworn enemies the Daleks. The Daleks destroyed his race and sure he showed Skarn the compassion to let him leave last of his race to last of the dalek race. But when you've suddenly got entire armies of Daleks everywhere it'll become destruction time surely? Your race gets exterminated and you sit there begging for them to survive, they try to destroy the Tardis and you beg?

That said The Doctor is changing much in the way humans change however I would like to see The Doctor be a little less passive or compassionate towards his sworn enemies; Daleks, Cybermen ect. More compassion when compassion is needed less when it isn't. It'll be interesting though to see how The Doctor copes with having Fallen in love with Rose, losing her only to regain her but to lose her once more. I expect however we will be seeing more of The Doctor's Daughter and more of The "human" Doctor in the next series even if they write Tennant out of the show as The Doctor.

[smittenkitten]

Oh I almost forgot to say - (SPOILER)When Donna touched the hand didn't that ring look awfully familiar? Like the same ring as cloaked person picked up at the Masters funeral? :mog:

[Big D]

Whoo, a thread bump. Not a particularly old thread, so I think we'll get away with it. The fourth series is still airing in my country, but I got sick of people spoiling it for me so I've cheated and watched ahead to the end.

I'm glad that, contrary to all the moaning and whining when she was first cast, Donna's gone on to become a generally liked and respected character. It was neat to have her acting as a kind of 'moral compass' for The Doctor, sometimes restraining him and sometimes pushing him to go the extra mile to do the right thing, rather than just accepting the way things unfold. Some extremely strong stories this series.

I'll join with the others who felt that the finale was a bit jumbled and overpopulated... I get the feel it was trying to go a bit too far, in particular trying to please all the whiny obsessive internet fans who are never actually going to be satisfied if they get given what they want to see.

spoilers start here, don't read unless you've seen "Journey's End"Bringing back the entire 'team' from the previous seasons was a great move, as well as returning to the Bad Wolf meme and other recurring concepts. Having a threat to not only the entire universe, but all universes certainly meant there was a lot at stake, so plenty of scope for heroics, which we got.

As with any episode of any TV show, there's a lot of complaining going on about this one. However, while I agree with some of it, I feel that it's not all justified.

The Daleks weakened and cheapened? Anyone see The Five Doctors, where the First Doctor and his granddaughter kill a Dalek by pushing it into a hall of mirrors to trick it into lasering its own head off?

Some say the plot was non-existent, or impossible to follow. I say it works well enough, but requires a lot of attention. Thanks to whiny internet fandom demanding servicing, there're so many nods and re-visits to events from throughout the series. A lot to keep track of.

Donna's memory not being jogged by seeing The Doctor? Well, those memories had been erased and suppressed. His face was just a face, after that. It'll take something strong to actually make her remember what's happened to her, but you can bet that it'll happen at some point, and a suitable plot contrivance will allow her to survive it. It just feels unfair for her character to get fobbed off like that.

The Doctor trying to save Davros? The issue was genocide. He's killed often enough in the past, and even believed he was responsible for exterminating the Daleks in the Time War, but whenever possible he'll give his enemies a chance to choose life. And wiping out an entire species is usually an unthinkable option to him. Davros isn't like the other Daleks, he could be contained and controlled - so executing him needlessly, especially if he's been rendered helpless and is the last of his kind (for now), is just un-Doctorly. It's one thing to deal mercilessly with villainous individuals - the Family of Blood, the stray Dalek from Eccleston's series, the Racnoss - but it's something else to make the choice to exterminate a sentient species altogether.

Rose's story and its resolution? I agree, it doesn't feel complete. After regenerating, The Doctor hardly seemed to care about seeing her again, and was awfully quick to shoehorn her back into the other universe. I can't imagine her being happy in the long-term, either. Maybe in future, they'll get a proper reunion, and we'll find out that the 'human' Doctor didn't survive the unnatural biological processes going on inside him. There's a lot they can work with, anyway.

I did, however, like the Torchwood crew's involvement in this episode. Jack's always awesome, but it was nice to see Ianto and Gwen acting like they've actually got brains once. If this story had happened inside an episode of Torchwood... when they found themselves trapped (but protected) inside Tosh's time bubble, but with no real hope for survival, they'd probably have decided to have a threesome with the pterodactyl. It's the kind of 'decision' those half-wits normally make when they're left to make their own choices.

So, I'm now very much looking forward to series five. It's going to be a long wait till 2010, but there's at least one or two specials before then. I'm hoping for more companions. I mean, a greater number and diversity than usual. People from other time periods, other worlds even. Captain Jack was a great example, hailing from the distant future. But the old-school Doctors were accompanied by humans from the distant future, androids, and all sorts in between. River Song's going to be one to look forward to, unless they take the cop-out route of altering the future to write her out of the story. It looks like Martha's going to be an important figure within UNIT, so I expect we'll see her at or near the top of that group in future as well.

Anyway, with Steven Moffat at the helm, the stories are likely to be more psychological and more horror-oriented than most of RTD's stuff. I swear, the Library two-parter managed to include every single recurring image from my worst nightmares. Even looking at screenshots from those episodes can make me want to look away. Blink remains one of my favourite stories, with the best aliens too. Moffat's contributions have been consistently brilliant, so here's hoping for more of the same quality.

But as long as there's still plenty of drama, storytelling, seriousness, fun, humour, and emotion, I'll continue to be happy. They'll have to try damn hard to let me down.

It's been great these last few days, re-watching all the past four year's worth of stories. If you can watch the end of Doomsday without crying, then you're a bastard and I hate you.

:tardis: <-this forum needs a new icon

[Balzac]

Moffat has said that he doesn't want to use old characters. So, most probably will never be written into episodes again.

[Big D]

Well, that just means more original stories and characters for us.
I reckon the various guest writers are likely to bring back a familiar face or two, but it's nice to know that Moffat's not going to go down the self-referential and in-jokey road.

[Quindiana Jones]

Oh I almost forgot to say - (SPOILER)When Donna touched the hand didn't that ring look awfully familiar? Like the same ring as cloaked person picked up at the Masters funeral? :mog:

Photo evidence, plz. (Because I can't be arsed. )

Anyway, I'm glad they're taking a break from Doctor Who, and just throwing in a few specials. The majority of it was getting a bit pants anyway, so it's good that they're taking time off to sex it back up to it's original glory.

Any thoughts on the Cybermen return, anyone? I pissing hate the Cybermen. And not in an "oooh they're so evil and scary" way. But still, there's a lot to play with, and all the Cybermen-involving episodes have been pretty nice, so I can't wait for my next Doctor fix.

[Balzac]

Cybermen are pussies. "Look at us made of metal hahaha... O<img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /> a magnet!"

[I Don't Need A Name]

the cybermen used to be good
but ever since this new series, and they decided to re-write their origin & give them a <img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /><img src="http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gif" alt="skull" /> catchphrase, they have become pointless

[Big D]

They didn't properly re-write their backstory, 'cause The Doctor references the fact that they used to exist in 'our' universe as well. They just came up with a workable excuse for introducing a new version, with new capabilities and no silly allergy to gold.

[Goldenboko]

I saw this one marathon of it once. It was kinda weird xD