Can someone's moral beliefs be stupid?

[Lawr]

Saying its his choice, is almost cruel. People are driven to do things. This person's choice would've never been chosen, if another individual did not make, and impose that belief on a populace. If a belief can force people to do something self-destructive, isn't that belief a destructive one?

EDIT: This thread really should be in EoEo.

Even if he is driven, in the end it's still his choice. The belief isn't destructive, it's the people who are enforcing it.

I think the fact that this is a religion is making you be far more forgiving. If you had black hair, and everyone in your community, told you and believed, its wrong to have black hair, don't you think that would get to you?

Actually, I see this as no different. Even if someone is told that their hair color was wrong, they are still the ones who made the choice to kill themselves. (Which is what it looks like your implying with this) Or, they can simply move. And besides, something that ridiculous wouldn't even get me close to contemplating anything.

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Who said Christians aren't antagonized because of situations like this?

Edit

Another note on the masturbation bit:

Some Asian sects which practice martial arts view masturbation as a unwanted release of energy. They feel that the sexual desire and drive is a form of energy that is best expended through martial arts practice and combat rather than sexual exertion. They will even avoid any sexual interaction with another individual to save these energies as they can be better used in other activities.

Clearly, these Asian sects are ignorant and stupid and don't know what they're talking ab...

Oops, I forgot that Asian sects aren't Christian, so it's not trendy and fashionable to rag on them despite lacking any proper understanding of their origins and beliefs

If someone reads the New Testament, discovers Christ's message of humility, tolerance and compassion, then adopts that morality as their own... is that person an imbecilic thicko who deserves ridicule? I'd say not. It's a religiously motivated moral code, but that doesn't make it inherently worthless or idiotic. Even if it is Christian in origin.

Believing or doing something only because a religion says it is so, with no attempt to understand the underlying or complicating factors, is uninformed in my opinion. It's always better to understand why, rather than just obeying mindlessly. However, we're all brought up in an environment where we just take for granted many moral and ethical practices. It's not all explained to us step-by-step; we just accept that things are done 'that way' go on about our lives. Are the common standards of behaviour, courtesy and decency 'ignorant' too?

Things are explained in the Bible. It's just that the people who want to criticize on Christianity don't seem to have the mental capacity to even try and look for it in the Bible.

[I Am Stoner]

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Because religions have laws and ethics behind them. Bullying doesnt have laws. I mean if the guy who commited suicide wanted out of christiality then he could of left. It states in the bible that one of gods greatest gifts to mankind is the freedom of thought and freedom to choose his own path in life. So if they are stopping him from leaving christiality they are either directly or indirectly desrupting gods cycle of things. Therefore going against his will for all men to be free and walk thier own path.

[Aerith's Knight]

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Who said Christians aren't antagonized because of situations like this?

agreed.. do you know how many time i have to hear: "If god was real, then why is there war, hunger, etc?"

its not like people want to hear the answer anyway.. they just want to keep asking that until someone cant answer, to make themselves seem superiour.

[Roto13]

To play Devil's Advocate:

A teenager believes he's gay-> Mom pressures him to 'turn straight' because of her religion-> Boy kills himself.

Doesn't the belief that being gay is wrong, due to religion, indirectly, hurt this young boy?

The biggest example I can think of regarding people believing homosexuality to be wrong being harmful is the lack of gay marriage in most of the US. Hell, most of the world. I'm fortunate enough to live in the vastly superior Canada. But if I lived in, say, Texas, I wouldn't be married right now and it'd be entirely the fault of an irrational belief too many people share.

[Evastio]

No I would not. I am a firm believer that no person should die for the wrongs of others. In this case the boy shouldn't throw his life away, instead he should be approached by others that will help him/her realize its not a sin and its not something to kill yourself over.

You get one life, and ending it because of beliefs others have made and you have adopted is wrong and ending it because of the beliefs of others is also wrong. I'd go as far as saying your assisting someone's suicide.

That's where the

It's okay if you try to convince him to stop

part comes in. But even if he still refuses to stop commiting suicide no matter how much you try to convince him, you shouldn't try to force him to stop.

[Goldenboko]

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Because religions have laws and ethics behind them. Bullying doesnt have laws. I mean if the guy who commited suicide wanted out of christiality then he could of left. It states in the bible that one of gods greatest gifts to mankind is the freedom of thought and freedom to choose his own path in life. So if they are stopping him from leaving christiality they are either directly or indirectly desrupting gods cycle of things. Therefore going against his will for all men to be free and walk thier own path.

If the person agrees many parts of Christianity, but disagrees with Gay is a sin. The problem normally isn't the person disliking Christianity, but just the views on homosexuality. So they get caught in a predicament, "how can I be Christian and gay?"

Also, your twisting the Bibles words. Christianity still holds the belief "Your Christian, or your going to hell!" Asking a Christian to give up their faith because they are gay, is like asking them to go to hell. Not gonna happen. Instead you get very depressed people who sometimes do experience thoughts of sucide. I saw it occur with a close friend for about 1 and a half years.

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Who said Christians aren't antagonized because of situations like this?

agreed.. do you know how many time i have to hear: "If god was real, then why is there war, hunger, etc?"

its not like people want to hear the answer anyway.. they just want to keep asking that until someone cant answer, to make themselves seem superiour.

Don't inter loop me with them peoples :P But assuming a person the person actually makes an argument that isn't completely stupid, there's a difference between antagonizing someone's beliefs, and antagonizing someone over something they can't control.


So, your seriously saying, that in this incident, Christianity's "Gay=Sin" didn't influence the young boy to kill himself?

[I Am Stoner]

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Because religions have laws and ethics behind them. Bullying doesnt have laws. I mean if the guy who commited suicide wanted out of christiality then he could of left. It states in the bible that one of gods greatest gifts to mankind is the freedom of thought and freedom to choose his own path in life. So if they are stopping him from leaving christiality they are either directly or indirectly desrupting gods cycle of things. Therefore going against his will for all men to be free and walk thier own path.

If the person agrees many parts of Christianity, but disagrees with Gay is a sin. The problem normally isn't the person disliking Christianity, but just the views on homosexuality.

Yet if he doesnt like the views on homosexuality then why follow christiality?

[Goldenboko]

Because Christianity is a big thing hun, have you ever looked at how much is in the bible? Its not a 'don't be gay book'.

[I Am Stoner]

Because Christianity is a big thing hun, have you ever looked at how much is in the bible? Its not a 'don't be gay book'.

No but as u said yourself it is a big thing. But the views on homosexuals isnt a thing you can just bypass. Its a part of the very foundation of the christian religion. So therefore if he doesnt like the anti-homosexual teachings he doesnt like one of the key features of christiality and its society.

[Roto13]

My husband is Catholic. Trust me, you don't have to be a bigot to be Christian.

[I Am Stoner]

My husband is Catholic. Trust me, you don't have to be a bigot to be Christian.

Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about the die-hard christians that follow the word of god like a train on rails. My bad.

[Goldenboko]

Its not 'part of the very foundation of the Christian Religion'. The Christian religion's foundation, is to show the ferocity, yet compassion of God, and why you should love him.

The problem becomes, when a person is inspired by the Bible, wants to love, and be with God, but finds himself with a 'sin' that is out of a person's control.

Sins outlined in the Bible are things you can control:
Don't Kill
Don't Steal
Don't worship another as you would god.

But, don't be gay, is something you can't control.

[Lawr]

If someone kills his or herself over bullying, bullying is considered at fault and the reason. Why is this different for religion?

Because religions have laws and ethics behind them. Bullying doesnt have laws. I mean if the guy who commited suicide wanted out of christiality then he could of left. It states in the bible that one of gods greatest gifts to mankind is the freedom of thought and freedom to choose his own path in life. So if they are stopping him from leaving christiality they are either directly or indirectly desrupting gods cycle of things. Therefore going against his will for all men to be free and walk thier own path.

If the person agrees many parts of Christianity, but disagrees with Gay is a sin. The problem normally isn't the person disliking Christianity, but just the views on homosexuality. So they get caught in a predicament, "how can I be Christian and gay?"

Exactly. You can't be. There are requirements you have to be to become the President. One of them is you have to be 35 or older. If you don't meet that requirement, how do you expect to become The President?

Asking a Christian to give up their faith because they are gay, is like asking them to go to hell. Not gonna happen. Instead you get very depressed people who sometimes do experience thoughts of sucide. I saw it occur with a close friend for about 1 and a half years.

Well, this is no different from the suicide case. It's the person's choice. If they really want to be a Christian but are struggling with homosexuality, then the Christian thing to do is to pray.

So, your seriously saying, that in this incident, Christianity's "Gay=Sin" didn't influence the young boy to kill himself?

It was the mother. Besides, like I said, if the boy did kill himself, this is blunt, he wasn't a true Christian. He should've prayed.

Sorry for this late reply, I've had to switched over to a laptop.

Edit

Its not 'part of the very foundation of the Christian Religion'. The Christian religion's foundation, is to show the ferocity, yet compassion of God, and why you should love him.

Actually, the foundation of Christianity is worship

[I Am Stoner]

Its not 'part of the very foundation of the Christian Religion'. The Christian religion's foundation, is to show the ferocity, yet compassion of God, and why you should love him.

Actually the foundation of the christian religion is one to 'guide' and make clear the good lord's laws and teachings, 'so he who may follow it shall be in heaven with him and remain with him always'. Hence why anti-homosexuality is a part of the very foundation of the christian religion.

[Goldenboko]

No, I'm talking about the scenario where there was no mother.
(http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-c...ml#post2483677)

Prayed for what? 'Oh god, please turn me straight!' My friend did pray, she had told me, and she said it didn't change how she felt. I truly believe she had the possibility of killing herself, if she didn't have good supporting friends, and apparently a priest that wasn't a bigot :P