Genesis becomes about as superhuman as Ultimecia by the end of the game. And Zack takes him out single-handedly.Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Zack defeats Minerva, who is implied to be the goddess of the world of FFVII. He beats up a god. Is that epic enough for you?I'm talking about something far beyond human enhanced.All SOLDIERs are infused with Mako and Jenova cells.Zack eventually reach First-Class rigth? But he doesn't get boosted by Mako, right...?
What's special about the 1 wing?
Is it just for First-Class SOLDIERs?
How do they get it?
I could also tell you about Ultimecia's actual Powers, but another day.
Squall can defeat Ultimecia by his own if you choose to do so.
Except Squall doesn't rely on mako at all and can un-junction his GFs while SOLDIERs are infused by (and stucked with) Mako.
Again, battle mechanics. In the game Squall defeats Ultimecia with the help of the rest. Whether or not you use them in the actual battle is completely irrelevant.
The main SeeD party lose the majority of their strength when unjunctioning. The rest of the SeeD are not like you, because they cannot junction with the same unrestricted freedom.
Presumably, the majority of 1st Class could end up becoming like Zack, seeing as they all receive Jenova, and Mako infusion.
Don't talk as if Mako infusion is a bad thing in terms of fighting capability. Its actually what gives the 1st class soldier the edge in this debate.
You can choose to defeat Greiver and Ultimecia with just Squall in a fairly easy battle btw.
Like you said, end up like Zack, dead.
All SeeDs Junction Guardian Forces, it has been said multiple times during the course of the game.
Even WITHOUT the GFs, SeeDs has some of the best limit breaks of ALL Final Fantasies.
If you only say First-Class SOLDIERs against SeeDs, well, it be the remaining First-Class SOLDIERs against a bunch of powerful SeeDs.
If you include all SOLDIERs, you might as well add Garden students, Irvine & Rinoa since Ultimecia considers them as SeeDs, Rinoa would make everyone Invinsible before bombarding them of Wishing Stars and Irvine would Blast the holy crap out of them with his shots. You would need to add Rinoa since she's an allies of SeeDs.
Rinoa did say (I want to be part of the group and fight along the side of everyone) before joining the ranks with the SeeD Students.
Also, what makes you think there isn't any other Powerfull SeeDs like Squall in the Academy?
Why don't you understand? Battle Mechanics cannot be used to determine strengths. Using that logic, Tidus and the rest of the FFX crew, are the most powerful FF characters ever. In game story is what matters.
The story specifically designates Squall and co. as the lengendary SeeDs that will defeat Ultimecia. Ultimecia defeated all the SeeD other then you, therefore you are the most powerful SeeD there are. Game, set, match.
Zack has done more feats then Squall and he isn't even the most powerful of all Soldier (Sephiroth takes that cake).
Also, you do have to include dead Soldier. Considering a fight against Soldier without Sephiroth, Zack, etc. isn't fair, unless you minus out all the SeeD that die in the War between them (Galbadia V. Balamb).
I haven't said anything about Battle Mechanix, just the Limit Breaks.
If you based yourself on the battle Mechanix, FFVIII would own them all. Invinsibility, Odin, Degenerator, Lion Hearth.... the list goes on.
Squall's "Legendary SeeD" is because he defeated Edea in the history of the game. Was also the First SeeD to be appointed has the leader of SeeDs. Legendary SeeDs are All SeeDs, not just Squall and co since Edea/Ultimecia refers to Rinoa has a SeeD, and Rinoa did not received any Garden Training.
Even Cloud kills off Sephiroth while he was just a low class guard (Sephiroth died by the hands of Cloud b4 the Final Battle during the Attack of Nibelheim*, the other Sephiroth is controlled by Hojo, same goes for Weiss)
Haven't seen any Garden Student dead during the Garden Confrontations, did you?
SeeDs are dispatch troughout the world, there were none to very little who were dressed in SeeD uniform.
Besides Squall, Zell, Quistis, Selphie and Xu, there wasn't any other SeeD who battled hands on.
Thank you Hyperion! You have just proved that SeeDs suck!
Cloud (Back in the day when he was merely a ShinRa Army member! Not a 1st Class), manages to defeat Sephiroth (SOLDIER 1st Class Legend)
SeeDs suck because they require teamwork!
And the reason behind the lack of deaths in VIII was probably due to the controversial Child Soldiers issue that I picked up on while playing it
I would love to be happy, but unfortunately I'm too busy being awesome and kicking your ass at everything
Yes you have. You've mentioned limits. You've mentioned "Squall could defeat Ulti on his own", which is ONLY possible through battle mechanics. If we wanted to use battle mechanics FFX would own everything, 99,999 HP plox? Does that matter? No, because battle mechanics don't matter.
Squall never defeated Edea in the story. Legendary SeeD are not all SeeD. No one is super if everyone is after all. Squall and Co. are the legendary SeeD. It would be stupid to assume the rest are as strong. In fact it would go against the story itself. Ultimecia defeated all the SeeD of her time remember?
Last order changed that segment. Apparently Square Enix said, "Wait, that scene is cool and all but... Cloud shouldn't be able to do that." So, instead of Cloud defeating Sephiroth, the edited story is he jumped into the mako by his own accord.
Did you watch that giant scene? They didn't confirm anyone in particular died, but thats because FFVIII was very linear in its focusing on Squall and Rinoa, then saying smurf you to the rest of the story.
Second, once again, did you watch that scene? Of course SeeD battle hands on, IT WAS DONE IN THAT SCENE >:0
Dude, Squall & Cloud defeats anything in Instant.
Cloud is forced into Teamwork when trying to defeat the overboosted Sephiroth at the end. (And requires an expendable death)
Cloud, I'm sure, would own Sephiroth any time giving he would have had the choice to do so.
Squall is only at his first mission (second if you count Laguna, Martine wasn't really a real Garden mission). Imagine how strong he'll be when he does more missions.
The fact thoses F-C SOLDIERS were defeated (and died) by the hands of an insignificant class soldier just proves how some F-C SOLDIERS sucks (Except Zack). Espescially when Squall was penetrated by a powerfull Sorceress and didn't died. (No wound, in fact).
During the Garden Confrontation, each sides could've had easily defeated or captured the enemy without necesarily finishing them off.
If you don't based yourself on game mechanic or abilities, what are you basing yourself on? Shape & Size, and the amount of energy they've received by other powers?
That doesn't prove much.
And then Crisis Core changed it right back, as it should be.
Let's go over reasons why this post is stupid
Yes. Yes that starts a quality post so well. Dude, this one's gonna be great, gonna be smurfing great!
Wait.
Logic, "Cloud needed help to defeat Sephiroth."
"That doesn't matter though. Cloud is still stronger then Sephiroth!"
"Why?"
"Because I said so >:0"
Mhm. Yep. Definitely impentrable logic right there. Stunned into silence.
"When you can't think of a reason in real life that someone is better, tell them to use their imagination!"
...:rolleyes2
This is my favorite part of the post. It combines enough stupid into a few words, to PHYSICALLY, hurt people. It starts by not using any proper nouns! Brilliant! If the reader can't understand what your saying! He can't debunk you! Great idea! *hi five*
Second part is even better. It takes a plot hole (how did Squall survive an icicle through the chest without a scratch) and pretends its a positive thing about FFVIII. My world is absolutely elightened! Go on.
...And that would've gotten them... where? Just think about how unlikely that is. They're blowing each other up, and swinging swords at each other. Even little kiddies who are joking around with knives accidentally end up cutting each other. Sorry, I don't live in your pretend world where people don't die in wars.
I love this. Ignoring what I've said in at least 3-5 posts. STORYLINE!
Soldiers have been stated to have had Mako and Jenova Cell infusions boosting their strengths. This source of power was readily available in FFVII.
In FFVIII they rely on junctioning GF's which have been proven to seclude themselves in rare spots, and let's face it, you can't junction Ifrit on 3,000 people.
Soldier is a sect of the military funded by Shinra, their resources where unlimited.
SeeD is funded by Cid, who has no money, so had to get money from a Shumi, who ends up turning on him. I'm surprised they have enough money to afford ships.
EDIT:
Really now? Dear god, this why I hate compilations.And then Crisis Core changed it right back, as it should be.
Damn straight. Sephiroth jumped into the Mako, wtf!?! That's one of the best scenes in the game: Cloud filled with anger and wanting his rightful vengeance, pulling the Masamune out of himself and throwing Sephiroth down in his rage.And then Crisis Core changed it right back, as it should be.
How dare Square try ruin that!
Yeah, battle mechanics can't be used. But there are other First-Class SeeDs besides Zack, Sephiroth etc. In VII you fight them in Junon, I think.
SOLDIER are bio-chemically altered super-warriors, while SeeD are augmented by the strength of their GFs. That is what makes SOLDIER SOLDIER and SeeD SeeD. So, in this argument, one cannot consider SeeDs who haven't junctioned or SOLDIERs without Mako.
I personally feel (as stated above) that SeeD would edge it, marginally. I think that the Mako should nullify the effects of Junctioning, so it would basically come down to skill. And SeeD are trained at a younger age, and are constantly fighting in tactical warfare. SOLDIERs are older when they join, and are more special-ops than involved in tactical warfare. Thus, SeeD have the minor advantage.
Debating's one thing, but mind your manners, please.Let's go over reasons why this post is stupid
1) I'm almost sure that Squall survived Ultimecia/Edea's attack at the end of disc one, because she cured him(Ulti wanted Seifer to interrogate the party's leader(Squall) about the real purpose of SeeD).
2) Cloud NEVER was a normal person, even before Nibelheim. In Before Crisis, he defeat the Ravens of Avalanche, who were in the same power level of SOLDIERs.
Cloud didn't join SOLDIER only because he was mentally weak.
So the fact he defeated Sephiroth at Nibelheim, is proof of his strength, not of Sephiroth's weakness.
Not to mention that... It was a coward attack from behind.
In my opinion, SOLDIER have more chances, because they have the advantage of numbers(all of those Genesis-copies from CC, were SOLDIERs in the past), and in training(they have their own version of the Danger Room(from the X-Men) at level 49 of the Shinra Building).
And SeeDs are augmented only with GFs, while SOLDIERs are augmented with Mako AND Jenova-cells.
I laugh troughout Golden Boko's entire post. (I really won't even be making any commentairy on that one
)
Seifer, Edea didn't died, thoses Dollet Soldiers either..
I think with my many post I've managed to not only prove that SeeDs are very powerfull, but they could even duel them and win.
All the latests posts just say they would use teamwork, and if they're that good at it, try 10000s of SeeDs against just Genesis.
It's like saying that SeeDs is the strongest warrior in the Universe just because they can junction Eden. The biggest, most powerfull GF/Summon in all Final Fantasies.
When Eden's gets summoned in an instant to blast his opponents to the next Galaxie, and they can't do much either since he can't attack the GF.
Or BM Odin would slice they to shreds.
What do want for your answer? Eden, Odin or both?
The End.
If you're still unsatisfied, wait until Dissidia comes out, we see Squall facing off against Sephiroth.
When Squall wins, you won't be able to say anything else.
Last edited by Hyperion4444; 09-02-2008 at 12:21 AM.
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