Knights of the Round plox.Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Edit by Kishi: The remainder of this post has been deleted. Merely laughing at someone isn't an argument, although it is rude and condescending. Amend your habits if to remain on live thou dost wish.
Knights of the round is also powerfull.
Haven't seen any Soldiers using them... a turk maybe.
Wait till Dissidia arrives. ok?
when Sephiroth in Final Form gets defeated single-handlely by Squall, you'll have all your prof there you won't be able to deny.
Oh, no mention of GFs either, just the Lion Hearth.
Fighting games like Dissidia have to be balanced so that every player character can potentially defeat every opponent. So that can't be used as evidence of strength relevant to the original games.
Then what is "proof", in your opinion?
You refuse to take Dissidia into consideration.
You refuse to acknowledge the Battle-Mechanics.
You refuse to admit SeeDs abilities
Hell, even some of you discredit SeeDs for using Guardian Forces to boost themselves.
I can assure you one thing, thoses First-Class SOLDIERs wouldn't be powerfull without Mako nor Mako Materia.
Besides, thoses First-Class SOLDIERs would be too busy killing each one another to even bother about the SeeDs.
Isn't it why they're mostly all dead to beging with?
And you were all talking about how SeeDs were using teamwork....
Last edited by Hyperion4444; 09-03-2008 at 04:17 PM.
I know for certain that Cloud, Sephiroth, and Genesis all have the strength to cleave enormous pieces of concrete or steel. We see plenty of this in Advent Children, and I've seen snippets of Crisis Core in AMVs and such. While they'd need weapons possessing strength that's out of this world, it'd also require a phenomenal amount of force from their own bodies and minds. Nothing in FFVIII suggests that SeeD have comparable physical power: Squall & co had to run away from the Black Widow in Dollet (I know it's defeatable, but the default outcome is flight rather than fight); during the G-Garden battle, Squall has to use a barrage of kicks and punches to dislodge the G-Soldier who's sharing a flying platform with him. SOLDIERs are actually strengthened, physically and mentally, by the procedures carried out on them. SeeD, on the other hand, have regular human strength and skill, but augmented solely by energy in the forms of GF and magic.
We also know that SOLDIERs have the strength, reflexes and mental acuity to protect themselves from gunfire, either by deflecting incoming fire with their weapons or by being agile enough to avoid their enemy's aim. FFVIII doesn't provide much basis for comparison - the heroes often encounter gun-weilding opponents, but in the Desert Prison cutscenes they all take cover when facing gunfire.
Don't forget, Quistis (A SeeD Instructor) Defeated the Goliath Black Widow. Squall wasn't a SeeD either.
There's a one hit defeat for that G-Soldier that only Squall can use, it wouldn't be a fun mini-game otherwise.
If your SOLDIERs are so smart, why don't they take cover?
Squall being hit by the Icycle and live is proof they're tought enought.
It's like the whole Ruby Dragon scene & Laguna (Squall's father arguably), would defeat the strongest FFVIII enemy.
Was able to Seal off a Sorceress who immensily surpassed his own powers until Squall & SeeDs defeated her. Stupid like she was, she fell into the trap.
FFVII has no concept or gravity (or reality much). You'd think that Vincent would float like in did in AC in DoC, but no. Not until he's Chaos where he has his two wings to fly.
In the world of FFVIII (Where Fantasy meats Reality) you can't fly on just one wing.
I got a nice suggestion for you.
If anyone would tell people on what they based themselve on, then there wouldn't be any confusions.
Last edited by Hyperion4444; 09-03-2008 at 03:51 PM.
Absolutely, and she used a heavy, mounted machine gun to do it.They have less need to. All SOLDIERs carry swords, generally very large swords; their enhanced abilities allow them to repel gunfire with their blades. When the situation calls for it, they do indeed use terrain and cover to their advantage - for example, Cloud's acrobatics during the Forgotten City fight and Bahamut battle in Advent Children.If your SOLDIERs are so smart, why don't they take cover?
He was caught off-guard and impaled through the shoulder; a reasonably easy injury to survive, especially since it was a clean and cold wound thanks to the icicle. He was definitely healed by someone else after being injured, though, hence the lack of a wound when he regains consciousness.Squall being hit by the Icycle and live is proof they're tought enought.Hardly the strongest enemy in the game, but it was an impressive feat nonetheless - at a time when they were empowered by the 'faeries', or rather the minds and magical powers of the SeeDs, sent back by Ellone.It's like the whole Ruby Dragon scene & Laguna (Squall's father arguably), would defeat the strongest FFVIII enemy.It was a brave and creative plan, certainly, but doesn't really address the question of the relative strength of SeeD members and SOLDIERs.Was able to Seal off a Sorceress who immensily surpassed his own powers until Squall & SeeDs defeated her. Stupid like she was, she fell into the trap.There is indeed gravity in FFVII - in the original game, the characters routinely jump distances beyond what regular humans (in our world) are capable of. Vincent himself can 'float' briefly in mid-jump; he does this when he somersaults out of his coffin, and later in the game as well. As for Dirge of Cerberus - throughout the cut-scenes, he frequently leaps implausibly superhuman distances, as seen in the Kalm level when he jumps to the top of the church spire in a single bound. Sephiroth, when he's begun absorbing greater power than ever before, is the only character to actually 'fly' - and in both the game and movie, he only does this when he's using a 'surrogate' body forged from Jenova's cells.FFVII has no concept or gravity (or reality much). You'd think that Vincent would float like in did in AC in DoC, but no. Not until he's Chaos where he has his two wings to fly.I must confess a measure of confusion at this statement.If anyone would tell people on what they based themselve on, then there wouldn't be any confusions.
1-Exactly.
2-Large Swords, really?
I tought only Angeal Zack & Cloud used the Buster Sword.
Others uses very lenthly but thin katanas.
3-Easy to survive? I'll wait to see if you can.
4-The whole point of the Laguna part was because he was a Galbadian Soldier, a strong one. Doesn't mean a Galbadian Soldier is just a Soldier he's not capable, just look at Laguna or Kiros.
Aren't the Green G-Soldiers Elite?
Oh, coming back to the Squall/Soldier mini-game, Squall can beat him up in one hit. A- It wouldn't be fun if he only had that has attack, it'd be over and done with too quickly.
B- Can you actually use thoses outside mini-game mechanix?
Punch, Squall wins.
Oh look, it's Sin!
"Squall punches Sin, Sin drops dead."
How's that!? (of course not, right?) Let's not mix the mini-games, like clouds.....
There's a CG where the Garden Explodes, but it never actually happens in the game. So if someone wants to defeat the Black Widow, it should count since the game continues, you'll use GFs alot. Or hide....
Last edited by Hyperion4444; 09-05-2008 at 02:59 AM.
Big D: Voice of reason. <3Absolutely, and she used a heavy, mounted machine gun to do it.They have less need to. All SOLDIERs carry swords, generally very large swords; their enhanced abilities allow them to repel gunfire with their blades. When the situation calls for it, they do indeed use terrain and cover to their advantage - for example, Cloud's acrobatics during the Forgotten City fight and Bahamut battle in Advent Children.If your SOLDIERs are so smart, why don't they take cover?
He was caught off-guard and impaled through the shoulder; a reasonably easy injury to survive, especially since it was a clean and cold wound thanks to the icicle. He was definitely healed by someone else after being injured, though, hence the lack of a wound when he regains consciousness.Squall being hit by the Icycle and live is proof they're tought enought.Hardly the strongest enemy in the game, but it was an impressive feat nonetheless - at a time when they were empowered by the 'faeries', or rather the minds and magical powers of the SeeDs, sent back by Ellone.It's like the whole Ruby Dragon scene & Laguna (Squall's father arguably), would defeat the strongest FFVIII enemy.It was a brave and creative plan, certainly, but doesn't really address the question of the relative strength of SeeD members and SOLDIERs.Was able to Seal off a Sorceress who immensily surpassed his own powers until Squall & SeeDs defeated her. Stupid like she was, she fell into the trap.There is indeed gravity in FFVII - in the original game, the characters routinely jump distances beyond what regular humans (in our world) are capable of. Vincent himself can 'float' briefly in mid-jump; he does this when he somersaults out of his coffin, and later in the game as well. As for Dirge of Cerberus - throughout the cut-scenes, he frequently leaps implausibly superhuman distances, as seen in the Kalm level when he jumps to the top of the church spire in a single bound. Sephiroth, when he's begun absorbing greater power than ever before, is the only character to actually 'fly' - and in both the game and movie, he only does this when he's using a 'surrogate' body forged from Jenova's cells.FFVII has no concept or gravity (or reality much). You'd think that Vincent would float like in did in AC in DoC, but no. Not until he's Chaos where he has his two wings to fly.I must confess a measure of confusion at this statement.If anyone would tell people on what they based themselve on, then there wouldn't be any confusions.
Dude! You wanted a debate! Stay in it!
I would love to be happy, but unfortunately I'm too busy being awesome and kicking your ass at everything
Not really. Remember that when you reach him at the core of the planet, he is flying/floating.
And I doubt that Safer Sephiroth couldn't fly. I mean... Just look at him.
Everything else you said, I agree.
Good point about his appearance at the planet's core. I left out Safer Sephiroth, though, what with him having wings and being in a distinctly non-human form already.
Not at all - in the original game, the party can encounter a number of third, second, and first class SOLDIERs at various points. They all have broad-bladed, two-handed swords. Sure, Sephiroth's sword is basically an overgrown katana - but that's largely beside the point, since he uses it just as effectively.It's still a serious injury, but the kind that can be survived pretty easily, with appropriate treatment.Easy to survive? I'll wait to see if you can.
And these First Class SOLDIERs aren't particularly difficult to defeat. There are some SOLDIERs that are very powerful, such as Sephiroth & Zack, but these are rarities.
This works both ways. In VIII, Squall, Zell, Quistis etc. are exceptional SeeDs.
I think that it isn't very representative debating on the strength of a large group of people based on a small sample of them.
I also do not think that one can debate that SeeDs are only strong without GFs, and they're useless without them, hence SOLDIER is better. SeeDs are trained with GFs, they utilize them extensively, and they cannot be seperated. It is almost as innane as me saying that if you take away the Jenova cell's in SOLDIERs, they're useless.
And I just find that SeeDs have a greater purpose and seem to be better trained than SOLDIERs. Their training starts at a younger age. They are used to fighting in large-scale battles. First Class SOLDIERs tend to operate more as special-ops. Also, after the War with Wutai, they have not been tested in a large-scale war.
These two factors I believe are what makes SeeDs ever-so-slightly better than SOLDIER.
SOLDIER First Class is a very exclusive group. (Yes, you can run around in circles and fight hundreds of them if you want, but that's a gameplay conceit.) And the reason they're possible to defeat is that you can't fight them until the game is nearly over, at which point your party has built themselves up to be comparable to the likes of Zack.
Over-rating them a bit. It's not like they're particularly tough to defeat. But if they're exclusive, then SeeD should have a serious numeric advantage.SOLDIER First Class is a very exclusive group. (Yes, you can run around in circles and fight hundreds of them if you want, but that's a gameplay conceit.) And the reason they're possible to defeat is that you can't fight them until the game is nearly over, at which point your party has built themselves up to be comparable to the likes of Zack.
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