Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 74

Thread: Why is Kuja such a noob?

  1. #46

    Default

    And what were Sephiroths motives exactly?

    For some reason or another, he decided to do exactly what Jenova was going to do, and for the life of me I could never piece together why.

  2. #47
    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    8,369
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoCracker View Post
    And what were Sephiroths motives exactly?

    For some reason or another, he decided to do exactly what Jenova was going to do, and for the life of me I could never piece together why.
    Divinity. Power. By wounding the world with Meteor, Sephiroth would be able to absorb the spirit energy unleashed by the damage, gaining immeasurable power, to the point where he could become one with the planet, and with Jenova. He wasn't 'manipulated' by Jenova; rather, he shared some of her nature since he was partly comprised of her cells and her essence. He wanted revenge on the world for its perceived injustices against him, but he also came to realise he could gain absolute power, ruling all life alongside his 'mother'.

  3. #48

    Default

    Well, he knew for a fact that Jenova wasn't his mother, that is made rather clear at different points in the game, notably when he tells you he knows that.

    The only real motivation I can see for Sephiroth is wanting revenge on the world that wronged him, which in all reality was limited to Shinra. Wanting to take out everyone else in the process, people who weren't remotely involved, sounds like a tantrum to me.

    Basically the prospect of power just happened to fall into his lap and he decided to take it?

    And it sounds odd that he wouls be partly comprised of her nature. If that were the case, then wouldn't the other Soldiers, for having Jenova Cells implanted in them, have similar urges? If not, why only Sephiroth? Is it because of the differences in how he was created?

    If so, why did it take so long for him to feel these urges? From what I could tell, it wasn't until the Library scene under Shinra Mansion that these feelings ever started to begin with.

    I'm not asking to prove a point, I'm asking to get a very clear reasoning behind Sephiroths motives so I can clearer argue the point.

    To me, all of these questions are important to be answered to do such a thing.

  4. #49
    Suvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Between Queen Brahnes Boobs 0.0'
    Posts
    257

    Default

    Sephiroth was Shinras "Super Soldier". He had a lot more cells in him, and he was birthed with the cells.

  5. #50

    Default

    But again, why does he not have any of those urges until the incident at Shinra Mansion?

  6. #51

    Default

    I quote myself on Sephiroth's motivation:
    Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.

    Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
    Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?

    Short time later...

    Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
    wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.


    From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.

    Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

    So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.

    But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...

    Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

    That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
    Anything like "he just hated humanity" or whatever is just fan filler. It has no basis anywhere in the games. His motive to be evil was because he thought he was a Cetra. He knows he isn't. he thought his ancestors were killed by some random hazard. They were killed by an alien who gave her cells to him. He isn't even her son. He has cells of Hojo and Lucrecia in him too.

    But knowing all this, he still goes on to be "like mother" in AC.

    So he has no motive. He's a plothole.

  7. #52
    Old school, like an old fool. Flying Mullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Napping in a peach tree.
    Posts
    19,185
    Articles
    6
    Blog Entries
    7
    Contributions
    • Former Administrator
    • Former Cid's Knight
    • Former Senior Site Staff

    Default

    It's possible that he was blinded by his hatred and ignored any facts that countered his logic of being the last Ancient and such and only saw what he believed was justification for his actions from the Lifestream.
    Figaro Castle

  8. #53

    Default

    It's also possible that he is complete insane and does insane things that don't make sense because he is insane. That and he is a badly written character, like a whole load of other FF villains.

  9. #54
    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    8,369
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Sephiroth learned that he wasn't really an Ancient, during his time in the Lifestream. This is addressed in the game, when he's confronted with the fact and acknowledges that he already knows. Jenova's his "mother" in more of a figurative or symbolic sense. The most important entity in his life, the one from whom he inherited his powers and strength, and the one he's closest to. He knows full well that she's not his mother biologically.

    It was also his time in the Lifestream that gave him the knowledge the launch his plan for divinity - the Black Materia, and such.
    So he has no motive. He's a plothole.
    Not at all. His 'grudge against the world' was what got him started in the first place; he wanted the dominion he felt was his by right. As he learned the truth, that transformed into a willingness to sacrifice all life in order to achieve truly divine power. His motive, ultimately, is the promise of absolute power over an entire world. Pretty good motivation, especially for the progeny of a vicious and powerful being.

  10. #55

    Default

    Wanting to conquer the world is not a motive. It's a goal.
    The motive is the reason you're even attempting the goal.
    From your description, his motive would be he's just power hungry. And that's it.
    He's got less motive and character than Bowser.

  11. #56
    Steiner is God Vivisteiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Vivi
    Posts
    2,211

    Default

    I think we are all missing a key point about Kuja (or at least not highlighting it enough). People were saying Kuja's motives were to 'destroy the world because no one should be able to live without me.' But what they fail to realise is that throughout pretty much the whole game that wasnt his motive at all. Kuja's motive was to 1UP Garland, get his revenge and sieze the power for himself.

    It is only during that crucial moment at Terra when he finally realises that his master plan has one fatal flaw - he's gonna die. Now, thats gotta get anyone pissed. Suddenly the whole situation changes. Kuja goes from soon to be lord of all, to a nothing. And whats worse is that there is nothing he can do about it.

    Or is there?

    Lets assess what his motives from this point onwards.

    "...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!"

    These are Kuja's last words before you meet him in Memoria.

    And what better way to destroy the world than to destroy the crystal that sustains all life?

    Anyway, the crucial point I want to make is that he arrives at the crystal before Zidane. This could be important, because it is therefore plausible that Kuja would have already attempted to gain life from the crystal, but failed. Having failed to gain life from it, he decides to destroy it. Remember that he dies straight after the Necron fight, so he must have realised he was moments away from dying. It really was now or never. So, in the end, what he attempted to do was quite reasonable and understandable. I dont think it was a weak plot device at all.


    In summary, Kuja had originally a powerful and convincing motive. He had a brilliant, although discovered-along-the-way type plan, which he executed perfectly. And then suddenly all the circumstances changed and his plan failed. He suddenly realised he had only moments left to live, and he was unable to build a new plan in such a short space of time. In the end he settled for destroying the world.

    There is the case for him being 'crazy' or 'stupid', if he did not attempt or consider gaining life from the crystal. But he arrived before Zidane so we do not know if he did try to gain life. For someone advanced in magic like him it may have been obvious immediately that he could not extract life out of it. And so he destroyed everything.
    Last edited by Vivisteiner; 05-23-2008 at 04:33 PM.

    "They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
    clicky clicky clicky

  12. #57

    Default

    Actually I think theres much more to Kuja's actions then that. There are multiple factors leading up to his desire to destroy all.

    First off, of course, would be his Narcissistic nature of course, as shown by that quote.

    Theres also another crucial reasoning behind his actions. Since the begining, Kuja's fate was planned out for him. Even being replaced by Zidane was part of the fate given to him by Garland.

    Essentially every action he had taken was a direct attempt to defy the fate given to him by Garland. However all up until Terra, he had failed.

    What came their was the death of Garland and the Awakening of Kuja's trance. It was here that Kuja realized something. No matter how much he struggled, no matter how much he fought, he could never escape the fate given to him by Garland. The destruction of the Crystal was the last attempt to take control of his own fate, which overall had been his goal from the beginning.

    So to say Kuja's goal was simply because he didn't want the world to go on without him isn't fully true. It is simply part of his reasoning.

    And the final piece of the puzzle, simply look at Kuja's upbringing. He was raised to be Garlands angel of death to cause chaos on destruction on Gaia in order to destroy the Eidiolons. His whole life that is all he has known.

    So, what is a Narcissist who has known only destruction to do when he realizes he is locked into a fate he can never overcome, regardless of how much he struggles?

    To be honest, I can't think of many things outside of wiping out existence as we know it. It definitely satisfies all aspects of Kuja's personality and dilemma.

  13. #58
    Steiner is God Vivisteiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Vivi
    Posts
    2,211

    Default

    ^Good point. I always viewed the defying fate thing as revenge. But I suppose its a combination of the both of them.

    "They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
    clicky clicky clicky

  14. #59

    Default

    I want to say that is allways good and fun to theorise, and I'm not against it.
    But, I'm a guy who likes to go by the concrete facts and evidences. And this is why I'm saying that Kuja didn't try to use the Crystal to survive... Because there is nothing pointing to this.
    His intentions were clear. He wanted to destroy the universe because he was going to die. Nothing more.

    Maybe he tried to use the Crystal to survive. But normaly, in fiction, if something is not showed, not mentioned, or not hinted, during the story... Is because it never happened. Unless there is a confirmation outside of the story(official book, or interview with creators) that confirms it happened.

  15. #60
    Steiner is God Vivisteiner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Vivi
    Posts
    2,211

    Default

    ^Well you were earlier trying to argue that the crystal may have had the power to increase Kuja's lifespan. Yet there is no evidence for that within the game. Is it not fair then to assume that the crystal couldnt extend Kuja's life?

    Kuja knew a lot of stuff about magic, so it seems reasonable to assume that he might have known about the powers and limitations of crystals as well. I dont view 'Kuja not trying to use the crystal to increase his lifespan' as a sign that he lost the plot and went mad.

    "They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
    clicky clicky clicky

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •