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Thread: What does Cecil see in Rosa?

  1. #16
    Back of the net Recognized Member Heath's Avatar
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    Strategically, I've always found her extremely useful in battle and when you've got a team as large as five, you really need a white mage to look after the others.

    I never found Rosa to be that annoying, personally. I think that Rosa and Cecil have a relationship that was built up on mutual attraction and has only grown stronger as a result of their adventuring and through living in Baron. Either that or pure, pure lust.
    Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear magazine.

  2. #17

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    Annoying has nothing to do with anything. She's not very multi-dimensional, which doesn't necessarily mean she's in any way a bad character.

    People need to learn that those two don't always have to go hand in hand. Some of the best characters in the franchise are pretty straight forward.

  3. #18
    programmed by NASIR Recognized Member black orb's Avatar
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    >>> Rosa was probably the hottest White Mage from the Kingdom of Baron. And Cecil was a guy who didnt know much about the outside world, so I guess he just picked Rosa.
    >> The black orb glitters ominously... but nothing happens..

  4. #19
    Depression Moon's Avatar
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    Hey, who's the prissy princess?
    I never saw anything with Rosa either and if Cecil didn't have her, it'll been hard for him to heal the entire party.

  5. #20
    Fortune Teller Recognized Member Roogle's Avatar
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    I would have liked to see a greater emphasis on the other aspects of Rosa other than her supporting, caring nature because these tendencies are generally ignored by the public. Maybe she should have had a moment where she saves the party with archery or something.
    I believe in the power of humanity.

  6. #21

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    Rydia was too young for him.
    So he kept his mack going with Rosa.

    :D

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Mullet View Post
    All she ever does is get captured or sick. He should have learned more white magic and kicked her to the curb. Then Yang can come back and be awesome with the party in the final dungeon(non-remake), like it should be.

    Her white magic was very important (at least to me ), she was the first one I always revived in a fight.

    And what does he see in her? She's brave enough to go after him when she thinks he might be in trouble. She choose him over anybody else, even if nobody knew where exactly he was from. Unlike in some anime and FF, both of them made a clear choice of who they wanted to be with. Kain might like her, but it doesn't really become a boring love-triangle.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by *PaladinCecil* View Post
    Hello! At least this time, I'm around for it. Though by now I honestly don't think anything I say will matter, because most people are dead set on seeing Rosa as worthless. I at least feel better actually showing that while most people don't care, at least I do. Bear in mind, I'm a Rosa fan, and defending her as a character is at the heart of defending her in terms of her relationship to Cecil, ESPECIALLY after the way you framed her (which is, really, how everyone frames her these days).

    I'll link you to this first.

    Translation of Final Fantasy IV Documents on Settings Book/Settei Shiryou Shuu/Compendium/What Have You

    Firstly, Rosa and Cecil have known each other since they were children. Their ties have built up over all those years. This is the most obvious reason. And as you can see in Rosa's profile, she's highly sought, yet her love has always been for Cecil.

    I now have to go into the events of the game because you don't get to see much of what happened before.

    The opening, with Rosa coming to his room, the things she says, implies that she's been one of the influences to keep him from fully succumbing to his dark side. She's obviously not the WHOLE reason, that would be absurd to say, but it's one of the reasons. She's a reminder of who he was in a way Kain cannot be. Kain is another hardened warrior; Rosa is a nurturing healer.

    My next one, which people LOVE to disregard: the gaps. The most important gap of all is the time between Cecil leaving Baron and Rosa showing up in Kaipo. Notice she arrives alone. Notice she would've had to travel across land, mountain and desert to reach Kaipo, and out of all of that, the worst she has is Desert Fever, an illness anyone could have contracted through prolonged exposure to the desert heat. She does this because she loves him so deeply that she wants to make sure he's okay, and she wants to be by his side to ensure it. She isn't one of those wussy types that hides back home worrying herself to death when she knows she could actually be on the front lines beside him, despite the risk. That's how much she loves him, willing to risk her life to make sure he's fine. Though yes, I know most people would prefer she didn't exist at all, her contracting the fever isn't as bad as some people suggest.

    The second thing I have to mention is her abduction in Fabul. Sure, she got abducted. And guess what? It happened right in front of Cecil. How is a white mage supposed to fight back when a martial artist and a dark knight can't? This is a bit skewed because the new version of the scene just has Golbez abduct her without her catching on to it happening until it's too late, but the point still stands: there's nothing she could've done. More importantly, if she HAD been able to and HAD done something reckless, that could've easily led to Kain or Golbez simply killing them all off. Which leads me to... how she stops Kain from killing Cecil in the first place. She was on duty healing soldiers. It's apparent that in the gaps somewhere, she learned that the monsters had reached the crystal chamber, and she rushed back there to try and help him. Again, the depths of her love on display. When she's needed, she'll be there with her healing magic if it's at all in her power.

    Third, and people love to overlook this: Mt. Hobs. Sure, they remember Rydia got over her fear of fire and melted the ice. But they forget that it was primarily Rosa, with a few lines from Edward, that Rydia got up the strength to break past that fear and open the way. You can't do it without Rosa, she's the key. This alludes to a gentle, kind, nurturing spirit that you don't get to see much over the course of the game, sadly. Yet, it's there, if you bother to look.


    Now, I've talked about in-game. Here's outside the game.

    Outside the game, in the real world, Rosa was the start of what we have now come to see as the "white mage stereotype." The kind, loving, soothing, nurturing woman. She's also the lead female, and like other lead females, she needs to be helped. There are two things here I need to address.

    The first, the "white mage stereotype." I don't know which game you started with, and I'm speaking on general terms. Most people started with FF7. This was their introduction to white mages, through Aeris. They then played 8, 9, and 10, and each one had a lead female/white mage type. So here's the problem. After playing these games, the player then goes BACK to playing FF4, the game where it all started... back when all the details weren't fleshed out to the point where you could accept those traits as gimmes and go on to the other traits that the character has. So how does Rosa look in comparison? "Generic." There isn't much emphasis on her noble background, because there's greater emphasis on her loving white mage traits, ones people know to a T today. People are essentially giving Rosa bad marks for having the nerve to be the first one, but not the popular one.

    The second, the "damsel-in-distress." Have you bothered to think her through objectively, next to the other leading ladies you have to help? Rosa only needs your help twice throughout the entire game. Aeris needs your help at LEAST twice, if not more time. Garnet has at least three problems (plant monsters, something I can't remember where she ended up having her eidolons taken, and the loss of her voice). Yuna needs help at least three times, thanks to abductions. And, of course, Rinoa. She's not any bit worse than any of the others, it's just that the game isn't as expansive in its script, so Rosa doesn't get a chance to show off her other traits in as outspoken a manner as the other girls.


    This is practically a book now, so you probably won't read it, but it's everything I can think of to say right now. There's a lot more to Rosa than you and most anyone else gives her credit for, you just have to look. Will you? Probably not, nobody ever does. I still feel better defending her than letting it run rampant.

    You need a life.

  9. #24
    Draw the Drapes Recognized Member rubah's Avatar
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    Cecil and Rosa have got each other's backs (just like me and stu).

    Also, they got this thing that's called Radar Love.

  10. #25

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    You need a life.
    I do apologize, but people should not be victimized simply because they lend Insight and Analysis to some of our favorite games, I personally found the analysis of their relationship very interesting, a good read PaladinCecil, as long as you write them, I'll more then likely keep reading them. (As long as it deals with IV... or Tactics, also Crystal Chronicles, that game has a rather deep story). I was just going to post a similar (yet ten times less detailed...) explanation of Rosa and Cecil, but I have no need to do so. Your post hit the nail on the head, wonderful work.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighPriestFuneral View Post

    You need a life.
    I do apologize, but people should not be victimized simply because they lend Insight and Analysis to some of our favorite games, I personally found the analysis of their relationship very interesting, a good read PaladinCecil, as long as you write them, I'll more then likely keep reading them. (As long as it deals with IV... or Tactics, also Crystal Chronicles, that game has a rather deep story). I was just going to post a similar (yet ten times less detailed...) explanation of Rosa and Cecil, but I have no need to do so. Your post hit the nail on the head, wonderful work.
    Insight's one thing, but when you write posts as long as this one about a character hardly anyone cares about in a game that's over fifteen years old, you need a life. That's my stance on it anyway. Rosa's a side character (who sucks in my opinion, I'm sick of this stereotypical female "inner strength" and power of love crap that video games keep shoving down our throats) whose personality basically extends to "she loves her friends and hates bad guys." For the record, I hated Aerith, Rinoa, and wasn't fond of Yuna. I liked Garnet, but that's because she had more personality, imo.

  12. #27
    Draw the Drapes Recognized Member rubah's Avatar
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    People analyze minutiae in literature, why not videogames?

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubah View Post
    People analyze minutiae in literature, why not videogames?
    I think the wrong idea was put out here. I don't think PaladinCecil shouldn't care about character in games, that's what makes them so much fun to play. But to care so much about a bland one-dimensional side-character from a game seems kinda.... dorky. But I'm not hating or anything, I know I need a life too. Actually, anyone who comes to a video game forum daily needs a life, quite frankly.

  14. #29
    Draw the Drapes Recognized Member rubah's Avatar
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    Kinda weird to call someone in the final battle that was there from the beginning a side character, but anyways, you need to look up the definition of minutiae.

  15. #30

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    If this were anywhere else, I'd think I was being trolled.

    Your thinking I "need a life" loses its worth to me in light of one very, very glaring thing I notice about you: you seem to hate Rosa.

    After bashing me for caring about this character, you went on to proclaim your hatred for Rosa as if your view of her "sucking" is gospel truth. You talked about how you loathe a stereotype that wasn't a stereotype when she came around (in fact it's more likely she STARTED the stereotype, and it's especially true that she's the first white mage in the series with her personality type and traits), proving you've written her off as nothing but a cliche. From the instant you wrote her off, you guaranteed you would never see a single thing in her worth noticing. This is like me writing off Rydia as a lame girl power stereotype and saying she sucks for that.

    More importantly, you call her a side character when she's not. She's the female lead. The promotional material shows it, the art shows it, her role in the story shows it, everything in the game says Rosa is the female lead.

    You want to know the truth? I think you realize there's something more to her that you don't want to admit. Why would you care so much about what one "loser" says about a fictional character you hate, if you didn't realize that on some level what he's saying has merit?

    I could have written this nice and soft and flowery and tried to coax you into looking deeper into the character, but honestly? I don't think you would ever want to do that. I think you just want me to be quiet rather than challenge you to question what you think you know as "truth." I don't think anything I say or do would get you to look deeper. It hasn't worked for a lot of people I've met that are like you, why would it start now? So I'm tossing out the naive notion that you might listen, and talking to you openly and head-on.

    Admins, mods, I apologize if this breaks any rules or causes any drama you didn't want here, but I had to defend myself AND I had to call him out on it.

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