REJOICE! For Xbox360 will see FFXIII!

[Bolivar]

My initial reaction was that my expectations for the quality of this game have plummeted.

Unless this game is multiple DVD's, available only to 360 users with hard drives, and has a mutilated graphical presentation, I have to say that Square-Enix has seriously let down its most loyal supporters. What I'm trying to say is - Tetsuya Nomura stated that FFXIII may be the first game to take full advantage of the PS3's capabilities.

How is that possible if it's being ported to the 360?

I guess we'll just have to see. I'm curious as to what Kitase and Nomura's thoughts are on this matter, and whose decision it was, and how much money they received. It must've been "an offer" they "couldn't refuse", or the company is in much more serious trouble than I thought.

I just wanted to add on Skyblade and Ouch!'s current debate - I have to take Ouch's side, not as a PS3 owner but as a history student. One of the main areas of study offered at my school is the History of Technology, and one of the main insights you draw from it is that, more often than not, the hands down best of the competing alternatives is rarely the winner. Much like the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war, who survives is dependent on back room deals between big companies and not the consumer. The notion of free market competition looks a lot better on paper than it actually does in practice. With the advent of the non-exclusive gaming software industry, I can only see the current domination of mediocrity in the entertainment industry across the board only getting worse.

[Chewy]

Its on the 360 too now, why can peeps find theat so hard to deal with, all it means is more peeps can play XIII now!

[Wolf Kanno]

My problem with your argument Ouch! is that its not really bad for third party developers. I agree its bad for consoles and I do agree its bad for gamers since quality can be jeopardize but overall its actually a good deal for third party as long as they keep up quality.

I do agree that this cannot stay constant but I feel its the Big 3 who need to make the changes; not the developers. Like Skyblade said in his posts. Its up to the console companies to make a system that is practical and economic for the developers. If they could build systems that were cheaper to make games for, then developers can offer exclusives and they may even have more incentive to try new things. Right now, I feel its up to Sony, MS, and Nintendo to come up with a business structure that benefits all rather than have the third party developers stick to the old structure and watch their companies get bought out by competitors just because their multi-million dollar game was only able to break even.

Sure, Sony and MS can just write out checks to keep exclusive but we all know this is the short term plan that cannot fix the problem with the business costs of the industry. We need to see serious changes in the relationship between developer and console makers.

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

[Yar]

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

Yes, but all the work was scrapped; save of course things such as story.

[Ouch!]

My problem with your argument Ouch! is that its not really bad for third party developers. I agree its bad for consoles and I do agree its bad for gamers since quality can be jeopardize but overall its actually a good deal for third party as long as they keep up quality.

If the gamers suffer and the console producers suffer, third party developers will also eventually suffer. Each part of the industry is connected. Multi-platform releases are a short term solution to a long term problem. It treats a symptom and lets the disease rage on.

I do not believe that it's up to the developers to fix this problem. However, they cannot ignore the wound after sticking a band-aid on it. Yes, console producers need to be more considerate when making their consoles, but they also need third party support. Developers and producers are going to have to work together on these things more.

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

I'd never heard this.

[Bolivar]

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

I'd never heard this.

This was a well circulated interview where some of the developers state it. Yoshinori Kitase's response to the first question pretty much gives all the facts. Versus was going to be the next-gen game, and XIII would be PS2.

[Ouch!]

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

I'd never heard this.

This was a well circulated interview where some of the developers state it. Yoshinori Kitase's response to the first question pretty much gives all the facts. Versus was going to be the next-gen game, and XIII would be PS2.

But it was never announced as a PS2 title, right? Considering it for a PS2 title was before they announced the titles originally. Just making sure I didn't miss something quite that big.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

My problem with your argument Ouch! is that its not really bad for third party developers. I agree its bad for consoles and I do agree its bad for gamers since quality can be jeopardize but overall its actually a good deal for third party as long as they keep up quality.

I do agree that this cannot stay constant but I feel its the Big 3 who need to make the changes; not the developers. Like Skyblade said in his posts. Its up to the console companies to make a system that is practical and economic for the developers. If they could build systems that were cheaper to make games for, then developers can offer exclusives and they may even have more incentive to try new things. Right now, I feel its up to Sony, MS, and Nintendo to come up with a business structure that benefits all rather than have the third party developers stick to the old structure and watch their companies get bought out by competitors just because their multi-million dollar game was only able to break even.

Sure, Sony and MS can just write out checks to keep exclusive but we all know this is the short term plan that cannot fix the problem with the business costs of the industry. We need to see serious changes in the relationship between developer and console makers.

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

Well, me personally didn't want to get in this discussion. But I had to say something about the point you made that console makers have to make cheaper business decision when it comes to making the console so that developers make have an easier time with make the software.

First of all, take a good look at the world around you. Since Bolivar, is in the studies of history, I'm pretty sure Bolivar would agree with me when I say the world doesn't change, it progresses and evolve. What I mean by that is the fact that it wasn't long ago in the time this earth existed that the human race was using hunting tools from rocks, vegetation, and wood. And I pretty sure that came at a cost no matter how small.

Now, since that time, man has progressed more significantly. And as progression proceeds, so follows the cost of progression. Same for the very things we have created. The gaming industry is progressing. It wasn't long ago even when it only take five people to make a video game. Now, it takes hundreds of people

So, what am I getting at you say? Well, what people fail to realize is about the gaming industry is that as it progresses and the demand from consumers grow, so follows the cost of producing produce to satisfy. You can't ask Sony, or MS, or even Nintendo to tone down cost of their produces because is hard to develop for. Of course it's hard to develop for! This industry is progressing. And if your to slow to keep up, find someone that can help you stay the course. Now, I must quickly correct myself. Of course you can ask them to lower cost of there product. But that doesn't mean they'll listen. And why should they? That's like asking them to go back a generation.

With all that being said, the reason games and consoles are so expansive today is the fact that their not in the 1970s anymore. And most likely, the more expensive the game or console, the better the quality and/or quantity. Or at least it should be that way...

[Jiro]

Does this mean us Australians get ignored again and only get the PS3 release? That blows.

I wasn't going to get a PS3 anyway, not for a long time. Because the games library doesn't appeal to me. The 360 has games I like, so I got it. Also, it was soo much cheaper, which is important for poor school kids

[Jessweeee♪]

On actual topic with XIII, wasn't it originally going to be a PS2 game? I thought I heard that somewhere...

I'd never heard this.

This was a well circulated interview where some of the developers state it. Yoshinori Kitase's response to the first question pretty much gives all the facts. Versus was going to be the next-gen game, and XIII would be PS2.

But it was never announced as a PS2 title, right? Considering it for a PS2 title was before they announced the titles originally. Just making sure I didn't miss something quite that big.

I think they started on it back in the day of FFX-2 anyway >.>

[Wolf Kanno]

My problem with your argument Ouch! is that its not really bad for third party developers. I agree its bad for consoles and I do agree its bad for gamers since quality can be jeopardize but overall its actually a good deal for third party as long as they keep up quality.

If the gamers suffer and the console producers suffer, third party developers will also eventually suffer. Each part of the industry is connected. Multi-platform releases are a short term solution to a long term problem. It treats a symptom and lets the disease rage on.

I do not believe that it's up to the developers to fix this problem. However, they cannot ignore the wound after sticking a band-aid on it. Yes, console producers need to be more considerate when making their consoles, but they also need third party support. Developers and producers are going to have to work together on these things more.

Technically, multi-platform only hurts the gamers if quality is jeopardized. Madden for instance does fairly well despite being multi-platform and part of this is due to it being a quality product (I'm using them as an example as I neither like nor play sports titles. I'm basing this on sales number alone). GTAIV and DMC4 both went multi-platform and the quality didn't really diminish in my opinion. What people point out as faults in both version tends to fall into "Fanboy OCD" which I quickly ignore cause their arguments are nothing more than mindless nitpicking. I seriously don't think FFXIII will be any different. Third party can't diminish quality or they will be hurt. I do see going multi-platform as a long term solution for third party developers and as long as they don't get lazy, the gamers will not suffer either. It only hurts the console developers in the end.

My problem with your argument overall Ouch!, is that you offer no real solution. You seem to be saying that third party developers should just stay with the old course, stay exclusive, and watch their net profits plummet. If things stay the same, third party developers may go under or end up being bought by the main console corporations. No offense, but I don't want to see SE, Capcom/Atlus, or Konami become second party developers to an exclusive console. This would give console developers the chance to become lazy and build poor gaming machines that people will buy cause its the only way they can play FFXVII and DMC8.

Granted, I understand where you are coming from and I don't want to see all my favorite titles become multi-platform. I enjoy seeing third party developers push the console's to their limits. These last few years have seen the most impressive OMG! games for the PS2. FFXII, MGS3, GoW2, and GTA:SA are all game that no one would have imagined being made on the PS2 hardware.

I see going multi-platform as a short term solution to help third party developers until console developers build a better business model to help them and in short, make everyone happy, in the long run.

Well, me personally didn't want to get in this discussion. But I had to say something about the point you made that console makers have to make cheaper business decision when it comes to making the console so that developers make have an easier time with make the software.

First of all, take a good look at the world around you. Since Bolivar, is in the studies of history, I'm pretty sure Bolivar would agree with me when I say the world doesn't change, it progresses and evolve. What I mean by that is the fact that it wasn't long ago in the time this earth existed that the human race was using hunting tools from rocks, vegetation, and wood. And I pretty sure that came at a cost no matter how small.

Now, since that time, man has progressed more significantly. And as progression proceeds, so follows the cost of progression. Same for the very things we have created. The gaming industry is progressing. It wasn't long ago even when it only take five people to make a video game. Now, it takes hundreds of people

So, what am I getting at you say? Well, what people fail to realize is about the gaming industry is that as it progresses and the demand from consumers grow, so follows the cost of producing produce to satisfy. You can't ask Sony, or MS, or even Nintendo to tone down cost of their produces because is hard to develop for. Of course it's hard to develop for! This industry is progressing. And if your to slow to keep up, find someone that can help you stay the course. Now, I must quickly correct myself. Of course you can ask them to lower cost of there product. But that doesn't mean they'll listen. And why should they? That's like asking them to go back a generation.

With all that being said, the reason games and consoles are so expansive today is the fact that their not in the 1970s anymore. And most likely, the more expensive the game or console, the better the quality and/or quantity. Or at least it should be that way...

I understand where you are coming from Typhoon and I feel I need to clarify on a few points. I feel MS and Sony need to make consoles easier and more economical for developers but I don't feel they should sacrifice quality to do so. Try to push the graphical and audio limits but build it in a way that makes game production easier for third party developers. I don't believe power is truly good unless its efficient. A powerful engine that requires lots of maintenance and high fuel costs is not as progressive as an engine that can do the same output at half the cost and less maintenance. Efficiency is another form of progression and in the long run, its better.

In my personal opinion, I feel we are beginning to see a dead end in maximizing audio/visual quality in gaming. The last few years have seen advances but not any major leaps or bounds like 10 years ago. The jump from this generation from the last is nowhere near as impressive as the one between the PS1 and the PS2. I only notice minor differences between 360 and PS3 titles and though I feel both can easily be pushed further, I doubt it will be as revolutionary as previous efforts on lesser consoles.

Console developers need to start utilizing more user friendly interface into their systems, as well as rebuild the current model of the relationship they have with third party developers. The current model may have worked 10 years ago but times have changed and lets face it, inflation is a bitch. They need to build a better business model that helps everyone. More efficient machines combined with a better business deal would allow third party developers to create not only more impressive next-gen games but may even allow them to create a larger volume of such titles.

[Ouch!]

My problem with your argument Ouch! is that its not really bad for third party developers. I agree its bad for consoles and I do agree its bad for gamers since quality can be jeopardize but overall its actually a good deal for third party as long as they keep up quality.

If the gamers suffer and the console producers suffer, third party developers will also eventually suffer. Each part of the industry is connected. Multi-platform releases are a short term solution to a long term problem. It treats a symptom and lets the disease rage on.

I do not believe that it's up to the developers to fix this problem. However, they cannot ignore the wound after sticking a band-aid on it. Yes, console producers need to be more considerate when making their consoles, but they also need third party support. Developers and producers are going to have to work together on these things more.

Technically, multi-platform only hurts the gamers if quality is jeopardized. Madden for instance does fairly well despite being multi-platform and part of this is due to it being a quality product (I'm using them as an example as I neither like nor play sports titles. I'm basing this on sales number alone). GTAIV and DMC4 both went multi-platform and the quality didn't really diminish in my opinion. What people point out as faults in both version tends to fall into "Fanboy OCD" which I quickly ignore cause their arguments are nothing more than mindless nitpicking. I seriously don't think FFXIII will be any different. Third party can't diminish quality or they will be hurt. I do see going multi-platform as a long term solution for third party developers and as long as they don't get lazy, the gamers will not suffer either. It only hurts the console developers in the end.

My problem with your argument overall Ouch!, is that you offer no real solution. You seem to be saying that third party developers should just stay with the old course, stay exclusive, and watch their net profits plummet. If things stay the same, third party developers may go under or end up being bought by the main console corporations. No offense, but I don't want to see SE, Capcom/Atlus, or Konami become second party developers to an exclusive console. This would give console developers the chance to become lazy and build poor gaming machines that people will buy cause its the only way they can play FFXVII and DMC8.

Granted, I understand where you are coming from and I don't want to see all my favorite titles become multi-platform. I enjoy seeing third party developers push the console's to their limits. These last few years have seen the most impressive OMG! games for the PS2. FFXII, MGS3, GoW2, and GTA:SA are all game that no one would have imagined being made on the PS2 hardware.

I see going multi-platform as a short term solution to help third party developers until console developers build a better business model to help them and in short, make everyone happy, in the long run.

I don't mean to come off as believing that there shouldn't at all be multi-platform titles. Quite a few games are suited to multi-platform releases. Sports games are a prime example.

The thing that bothers me is that it seems most of the big titles aren't staying exclusive. I don't give much of a damn for console loyalty from developers, but I think it's a problem when Final Fantasy, a game which traditionally launches on one console goes multi-platform. Big exclusives are necessary, and this industry seems to want to put big titles on as many consoles as possible to make as much money as possible. I'm hesitant to blame them, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of middle ground. I think losing the exclusivity of FFXIII shows that many companies aren't even going to attempt to find a mutually beneficial medium.

I also thought I mentioned that I think it would be important for console developers to both create more first party developers for their consoles and also more willingly work with third party developers. From what I understand, Sony especially says, "Here's the hardware, good luck!" and I think that's a problem which needs correcting.

[Dragonsoul]

It would be funny if there was a pc port of Final Fantasy XIII! Is Xbox 360 very similar to PC?

I'm cutting back even more on the games I'm playing. I'm only playing three games for the rest of the year. I'm currently playing Final Fantasy I(PSP) and Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift(DS), but I plan to upgrade my computer in a few months and get Mass Effect for it.

It would be easier for me if they had a pc port but I think this is unlikely. They are porting The Last Remnant to PC and FF VII/VIII were ported to PC, so a FF XIII has a possibility.

Grrr....I've been overloaded on Final Fantasy and Japanese rpg's in recent years. Now I'm starting to get more interested in Western Rpg's and rpg's aimed for an older audience. The result of this is my current interest in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Mass Effect. Have Final Fantasy XIII join those games on pc!

[Shlup]

This will be the first Final Fantasy, other than a PC copy of FFVII, I actually own.

[Bolivar]

I definately agree with you, Typhoon, I would just like to add that progress and evolution moves in different directions rather than the linear one that our society's zeitgeist would like you to believe.

This has been a good debate, and its interesting to see FFXIII spark a discussion on a larger issue.

Personally the solution I would offer, well, what I would like to see, is developers making games that take advantage of each console's specs. Like 360 games which take advantage of XBOXLive and all its features in a way the PSN can't. And have developers take advantage of blu ray and cell processors in ways that XBOX games can't. Effectively, this is already going on now, but this departure from tradition for FFXIII is a bad sign for the future.