Final Fantasy VII: Overrated?

[Momiji]

I take back what I said about not coming back.

I do know the definition of the words I'm using. I hated the story of FFVII, I hated the characters, I hated the plot holes. The only redeeming part of the series at all is the music, which is the only reason whatsoever that I finished the game. Now tell me this: if the story is bad, if the characters suck, if the story has too many gaps in it to be completed, and yet people still love it, does that not describe something that is completely overrated? Furthermore, if we're not talking about opinions, how the hell are you supposed to discuss if the game is overrated or not?

Now before you start insulting my intelligence again with condescending remarks, I would ask that you read what I said again:

I'll say now that I fully agree with Sagensyg here, but since I'm already walking on eggshells here (because heaven forbid I have an opinion against yours)-- I don't like FFVII. I don't like the story. I don't like the characters. I don't like all of the countless plot holes. Most of all, I don't like the squealing fanbase that would pay full price for whatever FFVII-related game comes out. It's sickening to see that. Square-Enix knows that if the fans like it enough, they'll buy anything, no matter how much of a quick cash-in it is. I bet if Square-Enix had the FFVII logo printed on toilet paper, the fans would buy it.

Don't even reply to this, because I'm not coming back in here. Is FFVII overrated? Hell yes. If Square-Enix would stop with all of these knockoffs, they could get back to making more new, interesting games instead of milking a dead cow.

I never said it was overrated BECAUSE it was popular. I said I find it irritating that such an unimpressive game is so popular. The relevance to being overrated ended after I mentioned the fanbase-- which I didn't say I hated because they make the game popular, it's that they're so damn annoying and would blindly buy any piece of junk that has anything to do with FFVII. And since they would do such things makes the game overrated-- because something is overrated if it gets way too much attention even when it is extremely unimpressive. So in that case, popularity does have to do with beng overrated, because if it wasn't popular, it wouldn't be overrated.

Now I'm done. Like Sagensyg also said, you can't change my opinions, and I can't change yours. But I won't let you insult my intelligence just because you failed to read what I said in depth. It seems that you skipped everything I said and focused only on the words "FFVII", "Popular", and "Overrated".

Ah, I understand now. So, because you think FFVII is a crap game, that means it is. And it shouln't be popular for that reason(for being crap, in your opinion).

LOL

Another fact for you dude: Your opinion is not a fact. Just becauce YOU think FFVII is a crap game, doesn't mean it is.
And it's obvious you are blinded by hate. You are even insulting the entire FFVII-fanbase.

It's obvious now, that you are a waste of time. Bye.

*facepalm*

Here we go again.

Shall I define 'overrated' for you?

o·ver·rate [oh-ver-reyt]
–verb (used with object), -rat·ed, -rat·ing.
to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate

If you cannot use opinions in a thread where an opinion is being asked, the point of the thread itself is gone. It wouldn't be a discussion if everyone had to agree. The question at hand was 'Is FFVII Overrated?' not 'FFVII is not overrated. Agree with me'. This happens all of the time. I state my opinion on the game and I'm always on the receiving end of the tongue-lashing because I just don't agree. I don't give a rat's ass if you think the game is overrated or not. I didn't question your opinion, so you shouldn't question mine. I said my part and you just had to attack me for it. Do I think FFVII is overrated? YES. Do you have to agree with me? NO. Am I allowed to say what I want regarding the subject? YES. Should that impact your opinion? NO. Am I allowed to disagree with you? APPARENTLY NOT.

Do I think FFVII is a crap game? Yeah, pretty much. Is my opinion fact? No, it's an opinion and I'm entitled to have mine as much as you're entitled to yours. It's clear that you're blinded by always having to be right and that you are the epitome of why I hate the fanbase so much. It always has to be 'agree or you're an idiot'. Perhaps I am blinded by hate. I wouldn't be if I was allowed to voice my damn opinion without always being the subject of a bitchfest afterward.

Bye.

[The Crystal]

I take back what I said about not coming back.

I do know the definition of the words I'm using. I hated the story of FFVII, I hated the characters, I hated the plot holes. The only redeeming part of the series at all is the music, which is the only reason whatsoever that I finished the game. Now tell me this: if the story is bad, if the characters suck, if the story has too many gaps in it to be completed, and yet people still love it, does that not describe something that is completely overrated? Furthermore, if we're not talking about opinions, how the hell are you supposed to discuss if the game is overrated or not?

Now before you start insulting my intelligence again with condescending remarks, I would ask that you read what I said again:

I'll say now that I fully agree with Sagensyg here, but since I'm already walking on eggshells here (because heaven forbid I have an opinion against yours)-- I don't like FFVII. I don't like the story. I don't like the characters. I don't like all of the countless plot holes. Most of all, I don't like the squealing fanbase that would pay full price for whatever FFVII-related game comes out. It's sickening to see that. Square-Enix knows that if the fans like it enough, they'll buy anything, no matter how much of a quick cash-in it is. I bet if Square-Enix had the FFVII logo printed on toilet paper, the fans would buy it.

Don't even reply to this, because I'm not coming back in here. Is FFVII overrated? Hell yes. If Square-Enix would stop with all of these knockoffs, they could get back to making more new, interesting games instead of milking a dead cow.

I never said it was overrated BECAUSE it was popular. I said I find it irritating that such an unimpressive game is so popular. The relevance to being overrated ended after I mentioned the fanbase-- which I didn't say I hated because they make the game popular, it's that they're so damn annoying and would blindly buy any piece of junk that has anything to do with FFVII. And since they would do such things makes the game overrated-- because something is overrated if it gets way too much attention even when it is extremely unimpressive. So in that case, popularity does have to do with beng overrated, because if it wasn't popular, it wouldn't be overrated.

Now I'm done. Like Sagensyg also said, you can't change my opinions, and I can't change yours. But I won't let you insult my intelligence just because you failed to read what I said in depth. It seems that you skipped everything I said and focused only on the words "FFVII", "Popular", and "Overrated".

Ah, I understand now. So, because you think FFVII is a crap game, that means it is. And it shouln't be popular for that reason(for being crap, in your opinion).

LOL

Another fact for you dude: Your opinion is not a fact. Just becauce YOU think FFVII is a crap game, doesn't mean it is.
And it's obvious you are blinded by hate. You are even insulting the entire FFVII-fanbase.

It's obvious now, that you are a waste of time. Bye.

*facepalm*

Here we go again.

Shall I define 'overrated' for you?

o·ver·rate [oh-ver-reyt]
–verb (used with object), -rat·ed, -rat·ing.
to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate

If you cannot use opinions in a thread where an opinion is being asked, the point of the thread itself is gone. It wouldn't be a discussion if everyone had to agree. The question at hand was 'Is FFVII Overrated?' not 'FFVII is not overrated. Agree with me'. This happens all of the time. I state my opinion on the game and I'm always on the receiving end of the tongue-lashing because I just don't agree. I don't give a rat's ass if you think the game is overrated or not. I didn't question your opinion, so you shouldn't question mine. I said my part and you just had to attack me for it. Do I think FFVII is overrated? YES. Do you have to agree with me? NO. Am I allowed to say what I want regarding the subject? YES. Should that impact your opinion? NO. Am I allowed to disagree with you? APPARENTLY NOT.

Do I think FFVII is a crap game? Yeah, pretty much. Is my opinion fact? No, it's an opinion and I'm entitled to have mine as much as you're entitled to yours. It's clear that you're blinded by always having to be right and that you are the epitome of why I hate the fanbase so much. It always has to be 'agree or you're an idiot'. Perhaps I am blinded by hate. I wouldn't be if I was allowed to voice my damn opinion without always being the subject of a bitchfest afterward.

Bye.

Ahhhh... So, because it's your opinion, no one can argue against it, right? Well... In my opinion, the planet Earth is a giant cookie. Don't argue with me, because I have the right to state my opinion.

.............

Opinions have to be based on facts. If you have your facts wrong, your opinion IS wrong(yes, opinions can be wrong too).

By your argument, the success of the game = it being overrated. Sorry but that's wrong. Go find the definition of the word "overrated" AND "popular"/"successful" before using them. They don't have the same meaning, and that's a fact.

[Jessweeee♪]

Okay so we're all in agreement that everyone's opinions mean nothing so we can just disregard anything that anyone says :</>D? Okie dokie

[The Crystal]

Okay so we're all in agreement that everyone's opinions mean nothing so we can just disregard anything that anyone says :</>D? Okie dokie

Opinions that contradict the known facts are nothing. Momiji's opinion contradicts the dictionary.
"Popular" or "successful" =/= "overrated".

[Egami]

It was nothing new to us who played Final Fantasy pre VII. The only thing that VII really brought to the series were the FMV cutscenes. Everything else was already in the series.

Well, I had been playing FF for a few years before VII was released and had played other RPGs such as Breath of Fire, Chrono Trigger and Lufia and I did find VII to be something new and refreshing.

As a whole, VII takes a new approach to the world of an RPG. It got rid of the castles, kingdoms, kings, knights and princes which had become the trademark if not the cliché of the genre.

I also think that character development rose to a new level with this game as the characters seem more deep and able to convey a wider set of emotions than in previous games. It is not just because of the better graphics, it is their behavior, how they move, react, speak and change during the game. Each character has a strongly marked personality.

The story itself is far deeper and complex than any of the previous games and travels into a new territory in exploring the physchological aspects of the characters.

The materia system was quite innovative in my opinion. Granted, it was not revolutionary, but it was great nonetheless and it gave grater freedom to customize your characters than previous games. It seems to be a fusion of sorts of the systems of V and VI, so in that I would say it is evolutionary. Something I like about the materia system is how strongly tied to the story and the rest of the game it is. It is not some isolated thing that is relevant only in battles; it is rooted in the story and directly derived from it.

The whole chocobos breeding idea was great and it was something new as well. It also paved the way for all the future chocobo related mini games that we find in the others.

There are also many small but great things that were new which I think are often overlooked but are what contribute in making the game great. I mean, I never did something in an RPG like riding a bike to escape some place while soldiers chase me and I have to take them down with a sword, or something like chasing a submarine while firing torpedoes at it to sink it, or like climbing a really cold mountain while keeping an eye on my body temperature, or something like the strategy game battle at Forth Condor in a previous FF. I could name more of these small things but all in all, I felt that the game packages so much variety into it and so well, it is like if you do a bit of everything in it. All this is also distributed across the story and the game also has an incredible pacing never allowing a dull moment to creep in.

Sometimes people try to look for some major revolutionary thing in the game and end up disillusioned when they don’t find it and miss this sort of stuff.

This wasn't the first with ATB battles. This wasn't the first FF with an in depth story. This wasn't the first with in depth characters. This wasn't the first with great music.

Nor were FFV and FFVI for that matter (ATB was introduced in IV). Does that make them mediocre? By that standard nearly every installment on the series is mediocre, don’t you think? Just because a game was not the first on something it doesn’t mean that it is mediocre.

People give the game too much credit. They say this game "revolutionized" the RPG genre. It did not. It simply brought more players to the genre.

I agree that the game did not “revolutionize” the RPG genre. It is true, it didn’t and I think that this is one of the things that fans of the game exaggerate. But that doesn’t make it a mediocre game nor does it means that it does not deserve all the praise it gets. The changes VII brought about were not radical for the most part, which is what it would do if it were to revolutionize the RPG genre. The changes were evolutionary, it took and improved upon what came before it and added some new things as well. While it didn’t revolutionize the genre, it did take things to a new level and raised the bar and set the standard for future RPGs.

That said why did VII bring more players to the genre? Obviously it did something right. I don’t think we can just chalk it up to good or excessive marketing. Previous Squaresoft games like Chrono Trigger and Secret of Evermore had great marketing campaigns with print and TV ads. I remember seeing plenty of SoE ads in magazines and the commercial for CT being played a lot on channels like MTV. I have read some blame it on the fact that the strategy guide was being sold as well, but strategy guides were available for previous games, so that cannot be the reason (how can it be, really?).

I think it did something right and that captivated the imagination of people back then and still does so today. There are even ten year old fan sites of the game around, which are still active and the game still continues to keep the interest of old fans and attracts new ones to it and its related games and movie. I think that only something that is "special" is able to do that.

I'll say now that I fully agree with Sagensyg here, but since I'm already walking on eggshells here (because heaven forbid I have an opinion against yours)-- I don't like FFVII. I don't like the story. I don't like the characters. I don't like all of the countless plot holes.

No issue with you disliking the game. If you didn’t like it, then you didn’t, not much can be done about that other than discuss your reasons for disliking it and thinking it is overrated. But you said you will not post again here, so I guess that is not possible.


Egami

[Roto13]

Opinions have to be based on facts.

No. Opinions have to be based on personal preference, not facts.

Well... In my opinion, the planet Earth is a giant cookie. Don't argue with me, because I have the right to state my opinion.

While I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believed this, this kind of thing isn't a matter of opinion.

[Momiji]

Ahhhh... So, because it's your opinion, no one can argue against it, right? Well... In my opinion, the planet Earth is a giant cookie. Don't argue with me, because I have the right to state my opinion.

.............

Opinions have to be based on facts. If you have your facts wrong, your opinion IS wrong(yes, opinions can be wrong too).

By your argument, the success of the game = it being overrated. Sorry but that's wrong. Go find the definition of the word "overrated" AND "popular"/"successful" before using them. They don't have the same meaning, and that's a fact.

Oh, that's right! My opinion is wrong because your opinion apparently trumps mine, and then you compare it to an overly obvious falsehood! Listen up, skippy-- a 'fact' is something known to be true and has proof to counter all question-- for example, water is wet--fact. If anyone questions it, throw the water on them. Saying that FFVII is good is an opinion, not a fact. You can't shove FFVII in my face and say it is good when I clearly say it is not. My opinion balances your opinion, because there is no way to prove that said game is good.

Furthermore, and for the last time-- I never contradicted myself. Something is overrated when it gets undeserved attention. I personally think that FFVII gets plenty of undeserved attention when I think it was a lousy game with excellent music. Now, the question in this smurfing thread was 'do you think FFVII is overrated?' I say yes. Just because I stated my goddamn opinion does not make it fact, and it sure as hell doesn't make yours one either.

I have better things to do than argue with a vindictive megalomaniac who just can't accept the fact that some people happen to think for themselves and disagree with his opinion.

[Yar]

Ahhhh... So, because it's your opinion, no one can argue against it, right? Well... In my opinion, the planet Earth is a giant cookie. Don't argue with me, because I have the right to state my opinion.

Except that terrible example you just provided can be proven as wrong. The earth not a giant mother smurfing cookie, and that statement is NOT an opinion.

Opinions have to be based on facts. If you have your facts wrong, your opinion IS wrong(yes, opinions can be wrong too).

By your argument, the success of the game = it being overrated. Sorry but that's wrong. Go find the definition of the word "overrated" AND "popular"/"successful" before using them. They don't have the same meaning, and that's a fact.

Momiji's opinion were based on facts. It was a fact, that he found the characters to be . It was a fact, that he found the story to be . It was a fact, that he found the plotholes to be , and it was a fact, that he found the music to be redeeming.

Opinions cannot, I repeat, CANNOT be proven wrong. Even if a person doesn't have all the facts to formulate a level-headed opinion, his opinion on the matter still cannot be proven wrong. Because an opinion would be how he feels on the matter.

Now, to this overrated/popularity/success deal.

Overrated deals with how people are finding something to be better than it actually is.

Popularity would be how many people find something fun, exciting, to be the best, yada yada.

Success, in VII's case, would be how many units are sold/how much $$ can be earned.

As a counter-example to the "popularity=overrating," I'll stay in the FF franchise and go with X. X was insanely popular. Still is today. But I don't think it was ever overrated. In fact, people actually cared to criticize the game in a negative light in some of it's aspects.

People try to do that to VII, but its whiny fan base won't allow us to. When we ask VII's fans to back up their claims as to why they prefer VII, some give us a detailed explanation. Yet, most say "oh you're just a hater/you just can't bare to see VII more popular than your favorite entry/you're jealous because we get more spinoffs/you're just on the hate VII bandwagon/wah wah wah."

[Egami]

Heh, this seems to be getting quite hot

Calm down guys...it is no use getting worked up over this..

[The Crystal]

Oh, that's right! My opinion is wrong because your opinion apparently trumps mine, and then you compare it to an overly obvious falsehood! Listen up, skippy-- a 'fact' is something known to be true and has proof to counter all question-- for example, water is wet--fact. If anyone questions it, throw the water on them. Saying that FFVII is good is an opinion, not a fact. You can't shove FFVII in my face and say it is good when I clearly say it is not. My opinion balances your opinion, because there is no way to prove that said game is good.

I have better things to do than argue with a vindictive megalomaniac who just can't accept the fact that some people happen to think for themselves and disagree with his opinion.

Oh my god! Are you even paying attention to what I'm talking about?!
I don't care if you dislike the game or not. It's your right to have an opnion about it.
BUT saying that it's overrated because of it's success is wrong, by the simple fact that success =/= overrated. Stop arguing with me, and go look on the damn dictionary!

[Momiji]

Furthermore, and for the last time-- I never contradicted myself. Something is overrated when it gets undeserved attention. I personally think that FFVII gets plenty of undeserved attention when I think it was a lousy game with excellent music. Now, the question in this smurfing thread was 'do you think FFVII is overrated?' I say yes. Just because I stated my goddamn opinion does not make it fact, and it sure as hell doesn't make yours one either.

[Ouch!]

Oh, that's right! My opinion is wrong because your opinion apparently trumps mine, and then you compare it to an overly obvious falsehood! Listen up, skippy-- a 'fact' is something known to be true and has proof to counter all question-- for example, water is wet--fact. If anyone questions it, throw the water on them. Saying that FFVII is good is an opinion, not a fact. You can't shove FFVII in my face and say it is good when I clearly say it is not. My opinion balances your opinion, because there is no way to prove that said game is good.

I have better things to do than argue with a vindictive megalomaniac who just can't accept the fact that some people happen to think for themselves and disagree with his opinion.

Oh my god! Are you even paying attention to what I'm talking about?!
I don't care if you dislike the game or not. It's your right to have an opnion about it.
BUT saying that it's overrated because of it's success is wrong, by the simple fact that success =/= overrated. Stop arguing with me, and go look on the damn dictionary!

I just can't resist. As Momiji has attempted to explain, for something to be overrated, it must be popular. There's no room to argue this; if you attempt to, it will only show your inability to understand the English language. Popularity is necessary to deem something overrated; similarly, unpopularity is necessary to deem something underrated.

However, popularity is only half of what makes something overrated. It is the more objective half (I say "more objective" because how popular something must be before one can appropriately define it as overrated is a rather subjective and sometimes arbitrary value) of the definition. To call something overrated is an opinion and therefore requires a subjective analysis. In this case, Momiji believes that Final Fantasy VII is a bad game. Let's examine this closely, step-by-step, since you seem to be ignoring a majority of the argument.

1. Final Fantasy VII is a popular game.
2. Momiji believes that Final Fantasy VII is a bad game and is undeserving of said popularity.
3. Therefore, Momiji believes Final Fantasy VII is overrated.

The Crystal, there is no more to this. You argue that popularity does not equate to overrated. This is true. However, popularity is a necessary part of being overrated. If someone thinks a popular game, movie, song, painting, cake recipe, what-have-you is bad, then he is also entitled to believe that it is overrated. Whether or not you disagree with this is completely irrelevant to Momiji's opinion.

As Momiji has said, this thread was asking an opinion. You do not think that Final Fantasy VII is overrated because your opinion differs from Momiji's on point two. You think FFVII is a good game. Therefore, you think it is deserving of its popularity. This, however, does not make Momiji wrong, nor does it make you right. Overrated is an opinion. Momiji is not trying to say that "FFVII is overrated and everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong." He's stating his opinion, which just happens to be contradictory to yours.

Your counterarguments are feeble and misguided, so stop trying before you embarrass yourself further.

And a little bit tossed in to stay strictly on topic: I think Final Fantasy is a good addition to the franchise. I believe it is overrated because I do not think it is deserving of the immense popularity it receives. It's good, but it's not that good.

[edczxcvbnm]

And Vincents coffin is made of metal!!11!

[Wolf Kanno]

Wolf Kanno - Smurf You, man. Smurf You. (j/p we both know it's all in good fun my friend).

Lol! Seriously, after our debate last time I'm not in the mood to go into real depth about this with you. You and I both know it would be impossible to convince the other one way or another on this topic.

In regards to the current debate, though I would argue that part of the criteria for being considered "overrated" would have to be its popular, I would say its a criteria not a reason why it is. Overrated means to be in conflict with the popular opinion. Yet at the same time, it comes down to personal opinion. I feel FFVII is overrated, I believe its a great game but I believe its flawed enough not to earn it the "greatest RPG of all time" award.

I feel both sides of the conflict need to understand that VII is a solid enough game to make it popular but has enough flaws to understand that people may dislike it. I like VII but I would be lying if I said it was a perfect game. I feel both sides need to understand this in order to minimize conflict. Yes there are pain in the ass fans on both sides of the argument who will mouth off about the debate but overall, I feel it comes down to opinion. A game can be both "perfect" and "overrated" at the same time everyone just needs to recognize that it comes down to personal opinion whether you fall into one camp or the other and stop this pointless argument.

At least use more valid arguments. Haters need to start pointing out specifics in the game as to why its not perfect; like the logic errors involving Cid joining your party, or the fact that the game offers no valid reason for Tifa to keep the truth about Nibelheim from Cloud. Fanboys, explain how the use of pre-rendered cutscenes allowed greater immersion into pivotal story points or the fact that Cloud's past is both original and never been seriously attempted since.

I don't want to hear anymore of this:

Haters: FF7 is a mediocre game with bad characters and awful gameplay. Its only popular cause its fans are obnoxious and never played any real RPGs!

Fanboys: You're just jealous cause your game isn't popular and you hate it cause its better than your game cause statistics don't lie.

NEWSFLASH!!!: In order for this debate not to go into circles anymore than it has, try to make more valid points that don't seem to be used very often. Haters: Be specific and point out its flaws within the game. Yes the fanbase is obnoxious and the game has flaws but be smurfing specific if you want to have any true leverage in your arguments. Fanboys: Stop circling back to it being popular and its all based on jealousy, point out why its the best and how it changed the world. Don't use sales figures as a crutch. 50 Cents game sold extremely well and most people consider it the worst game of all time. You also need to factor in that just because a gamer owns it doesn't mean they like it. Finally, don't use websites and gaming magazines as proof of value. XII is revered by critics as one of the best installments in the series yet its reviled by most of the FF fanbase. In the end, critics don't speak for the majority.

Basically, lets try to bring this back up as a valid debate about the integrity of the original game and not the same old these threads always devolve into. This will probably be my last post in this thread unless someone wants to make a valid point. :mog:

[ljkkjlcm9]

Interesting argument...
All I hear is people who don't like it, saying it's overrated
And people who do like it, saying it isn't overrated.

I love the game, I enjoy all the spinoff's I've played... but I still think it's overrated. I think Zelda Ocarina of Time is overrated. I think Mario Galaxy is overrated. I think most games that become widely popular are overrated. And many games that are just as good, are underrated.

For example, I enjoyed each and every one of those games. But I enjoyed The World Ends With You far more. I found it truly amazing and original. I think it is underrated.

Basically, it's all about what gets the spotlight. Many games that get huge spotlight, don't necessarily deserve it. Many games that get no spotlight, deserve it. Chrono Trigger wasn't huge until awhile after it's release. So no, I don't find that game overrated. Overrated games if you ask me, are games that get huge ratings and people are told it's amazing, so because of this tons of people play it.

THE JACKEL