Final Fantasy VII: Overrated?

[Egami]

But then it wouldnt have been on the PS1.

I don't see why not. Considering that there were 2D games before and after VII was released, it doesn't seems like Sony minded developers doing it. Sony did not have a mindset of "make games in 3D or don't work for our console", as is being implied by some.

[Yar]

VII was expected to be a big hit. Letting it be of poor quality would've killed the series, which would've been bad for both Square and Sony.

Lesser games CAN get away with it later because they aren't expected to do much anyway.

[Carl the Llama]

There didn't need to be. But if they had decided to go the other way, there would have been.

But then it wouldnt have been on the PS1.

That was kinda his point :o

did you misread his post? (not sarcasm) his point was (IMO) that if they had decided to go 2D that Sony would have put pressure on them to go 3D, atleast thats the impression I get when I read his post.

I don't see why not. Considering that there were 2D games before and after VII was released, it doesn't seems like Sony minded developers doing it. Sony did not have a mindset of "make games in 3D or don't work for our console", as is being implied by some.

The reason it wasnt on the SNES/N64 was because it wanted to be in 3D correct? and the N64 used Cart and so couldnt handle that amount of data from the 3D world of Final Fantasy VII and so they went over to the Playstation.

Oh and im still waiting for where this "you WILL make 3D games" idea came from, perhaps you would like to tell us where this information came from Roto?

[Egami]

VII was expected to be a big hit. Letting it be of poor quality would've killed the series...

So...2D games are of poor quality just because they are 2D?

The reason it wasnt on the SNES/N64 was because it wanted to be in 3D correct?

Not quite, remember that the N64 had it's share of games in 3D (Mario 64, Zelda, etc), so the mere fact that it would be in 3D was not the reason. The game could have been made for N64 in 3D but smaller and without the FMVs. Or it would need a special cartridge to fit, which would have made the game too expensive.

[Roto13]

Oh and im still waiting for where this "you WILL make 3D games" idea came from, perhaps you would like to tell us where this information came from Roto?

I don't have my source on me (it was a magazine from a few years ago) and I don't make a habit of going farther than Wikipedia for this kind of thing. Believe it or don't. It's the truth.

[Rase]

Bernie Stolar is the guy you're thinking of. As the first president of SCEA he implemented a "no RPG" policy in the early days of the Playstation because most at the time were 2D, which he felt didn't showcased the PS1's power. Therefore it's logical to infer he discouraged any games from being 2D during his time there. He was released from Sony after the first holiday season of the PLaystation and then went over to Sega, where he oversaw the Saturn and the time leading up to the Dreamcast launch, before being let go from there also.

[Yar]

VII was expected to be a big hit. Letting it be of poor quality would've killed the series...

So...2D games are of poor quality just because they are 2D?

When the capability to make 3D games is available on its system, yes. They don't have to be bad games, but they aren't the best of quality concerning graphics.

[Goldenboko]

There didn't need to be. But if they had decided to go the other way, there would have been.

But then it wouldnt have been on the PS1.

That was kinda his point :o

did you misread his post? (not sarcasm) his point was (IMO) that if they had decided to go 2D that Sony would have put pressure on them to go 3D, atleast thats the impression I get when I read his post.

And they would've.

Bernie Stolar is the guy you're thinking of. As the first president of SCEW he implemented a "no RPG" policy in the early days of the Playstation because most at the time were 2D, which he felt didn't showcased the PS1's power. Therefore it's logical to infer he discouraged any games from being 2D during his time there. He was released from Sony after the first holiday season of the PLaystation and then went over to Sega, where he oversaw the Saturn and the time leading up to the Dreamcast launch, before being let go from there also.

[Egami]

Bernie Stolar is the guy you're thinking of. As the first president of SCEA he implemented a "no RPG" policy in the early days of the Playstation because most at the time were 2D, which he felt didn't showcased the PS1's power. Therefore it's logical to infer he discouraged any games from being 2D during his time there. He was released from Sony after the first holiday season of the PLaystation and then went over to Sega, where he oversaw the Saturn and the time leading up to the Dreamcast launch, before being let go from there also.

He left Sony before Square had begun developing VII and we find games like Suikoden and Beyond the Beyond, which are 2D RPGs, being developed and released during his time and which were more likely to be affected by his influence.

What happened with VII was that "Kitase [...] was concerned the franchise might be left behind if it did not catch up to the 3D computer graphics used in other games at the time." (Wiki), and so they decided to make the game 3D. Sony may had preasured other developers to make their games 3D but when it comes to developing VII in 3D, it was all Square's doing.

[Heath]

I fear I might be somewhat jumping in at the deep end here, but what the hell.

I've always liked FFVII as a game. At one point it was my favourite in the series, probably after giving every game their first, initial playthrough I thought as much and could well have been a candidate to fit into the bordering on rabid fanboy territory. However, I think as I've matured I've come to look at the game in a more critical light. The music is fantastic, the graphics - for their time - were excellent and it's a very enjoyable game, but there are also some important flaws. The lack of any real character-specific customisation is one that really stood out to me after playing VI, IX and V. Besides limit breaks and equipment, there's not much that sets the characters apart in battle. I think it's important to take into account the games weaknesses as much as its strengths.

On the Internet, however, I do think that - by and large - it is overrated. Not because it is a bad game that is rated to be a good game, but because it is a great game that is rated as a pinnacle of human achievement in some circles. It's a great game and I really think it has allowed the series and RPGs in general to progress beyond the boundaries of SNES and NES. In terms of broadening the series overall appeal, I think FFVII is particularly strong. For all the dislike towards the fanboys, it's because of the fanboy buying FFVII and feeding the money into Square that we've managed to get the other games in the series and - arguably due to the revenue that VII produced - the quality of the rest of the series. I think certain aspects are overrated, but overall it's a quality game. It's a game that introduced a lot of us to the series, myself included, and so in that respect I'm sure it will have a special place in our hearts, but I think FFVII can be slated too much and rated too highly by some people. It's a great game all the same and one that I still very much enjoy playing.

[Bolivar]

Bernie Stolar is the guy you're thinking of. As the first president of SCEA he implemented a "no RPG" policy in the early days of the Playstation because most at the time were 2D, which he felt didn't showcased the PS1's power. Therefore it's logical to infer he discouraged any games from being 2D during his time there. He was released from Sony after the first holiday season of the PLaystation and then went over to Sega, where he oversaw the Saturn and the time leading up to the Dreamcast launch, before being let go from there also.

He left Sony before Square had begun developing VII and we find games like Suikoden and Beyond the Beyond, which are 2D RPGs, being developed and released during his time and which were more likely to be affected by his influence.

Yeah, there's alot of problems with that "no 2D" theory.

VII was expected to be a big hit. Letting it be of poor quality would've killed the series, which would've been bad for both Square and Sony.

Lesser games CAN get away with it later because they aren't expected to do much anyway.

FFVII's expectations only began to build once people started realizing how important of a game it was going to be. Final Fantasy, up to that point, had taken a backseat to Dragon Quest in Japan, and had only a moderate success in the states. It was virtually unheard of in Europe. At the same token, Dragon Quest VII, always a big hit, opted to maintain 2d, and we're talkin years into the Playstation's life cycle.

[Rase]

He left Sony before Square had begun developing VII and we find games like Suikoden and Beyond the Beyond, which are 2D RPGs, being developed and released during his time and which were more likely to be affected by his influence.

No argument from me there, I simple assumed that was what everyone was talking about with the "no 2D" debate, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

[Yar]

FFVII's expectations only began to build once people started realizing how important of a game it was going to be. Final Fantasy, up to that point, had taken a backseat to Dragon Quest in Japan, and had only a moderate success in the states. It was virtually unheard of in Europe. At the same token, Dragon Quest VII, always a big hit, opted to maintain 2d, and we're talkin years into the Playstation's life cycle.

Dragon Quest VII was sprite-based, yes, but on a 3D environment, similar to Final Fantasy Tactics.

[Egami]

I fear I might be somewhat jumping in at the deep end here, but what the hell.

I've always liked FFVII as a game. At one point it was my favourite in the series, probably after giving every game their first, initial playthrough I thought as much and could well have been a candidate to fit into the bordering on rabid fanboy territory. However, I think as I've matured I've come to look at the game in a more critical light. The music is fantastic, the graphics - for their time - were excellent and it's a very enjoyable game, but there are also some important flaws. The lack of any real character-specific customisation is one that really stood out to me after playing VI, IX and V. Besides limit breaks and equipment, there's not much that sets the characters apart in battle. I think it's important to take into account the games weaknesses as much as its strengths.

On the Internet, however, I do think that - by and large - it is overrated. Not because it is a bad game that is rated to be a good game, but because it is a great game that is rated as a pinnacle of human achievement in some circles. It's a great game and I really think it has allowed the series and RPGs in general to progress beyond the boundaries of SNES and NES. In terms of broadening the series overall appeal, I think FFVII is particularly strong. For all the dislike towards the fanboys, it's because of the fanboy buying FFVII and feeding the money into Square that we've managed to get the other games in the series and - arguably due to the revenue that VII produced - the quality of the rest of the series. I think certain aspects are overrated, but overall it's a quality game. It's a game that introduced a lot of us to the series, myself included, and so in that respect I'm sure it will have a special place in our hearts, but I think FFVII can be slated too much and rated too highly by some people. It's a great game all the same and one that I still very much enjoy playing.

Good post Heath

VII is my favorite game but I can understand and agree with some of the points you raise here. I agree, the game has it's flaws, I believe they are minor (obviously) and are either easily overlooked or don't really affect things that much. As I pointed out in a previous post, some fans of the game tend to exaggerate things a bit and in so doing fail to admit the weaknesses of the game. On the other hand, others tend to downplay what the game did for the series and RPGs in general (some fans tend to exaggerate on this too).

With regards to the lack of character specific customization., I think that what happens is that the materia system opens the character almost completely for customization. Within the context of the game, the materia system makes a lot of sense and is one of the things I like the most about it. It is rooted and derived from the plot, not something that is isolated which one only uses in battle. Besides the limit breaks and equipment, in battle the weapons of the characters can sometimes make a difference. For instance, Vincent, Barret and Yuffie have long ranged weapons that can reach some flying enemies that the others can't. Granted, the game doesn't exploits this fact as much as games like FF X does, which makes you use Wakka for some monsters, Auron for others, etc. I think they could have exploited this a bit.

I think it depends on how one looks at it. Personally this didn't really bother me and after VI, I felt it was a better system which beside giving you nearly complete customization of the characters, also allowed you to choose the characters based on your bond with them. Now you were no longer forced to use the same characters because you almost can't do without their abilities (Sabin's Blitz, Cyan's Sword Tech, Edgar's Tools, etc) now you could choose them based on how much you truly liked them as characters. Of course, this is my opinion and this issue in particular is down to personal preference. I take it you didn't like XII's system either?

Anyway, long post already...but good post again Heath, nice to see the points you made expressed in the way you did.


Egami

[Rase]

Guess I may as well try and contribute to the topic now that I'm in this thread.

Concerning character customization, I must say that is probably what I dislike about this game. As others have said it's all personal preference, but a system like FFVII's Materia would work for me better in a game where you only control one character, as it would be harder to make some god team and I like developing and creating my own character in these types of games. This is one of the reasons I want to try Crisis Core so much, as you're just controlling Zack. With VII, I could take someone with a long-range weapon, or I could just slap some Long Range Materia on Cloud and there you go. Materia is certainly an interesting system, but I just wish that there was some more differentiation among the cast when it came to gameplay. For whatever reason I like the rigid class format in my RPG's, where every character has their distinct strengths and weaknesses and you have to just make due with them.

As for the game and it's overratedness... I guess I fall into the "I think it is, despite being good game". Personal preferences to gameplay and my apathy towards the characters as a whole weigh it down for me compared to many other games, but I would hardly say it's bad. It's just not for me, and so from my perspective it does get more praise then I see fit (it's hardly alone in this category either). I'm sure everyone has games that fall into this category for them, yet this never immediately means the game is bad. So yeah, I like FFVII, thinks it's a grand game that was fairly inventive and took some risks, but not worthy of some of the praise it gets. Admittedly though, this crazy praise is seen less and less by me, so it's only a little on the overrated side right now.

Anyway, enough rambling. Resume your arguments over 3D or whatever.