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Thread: Final Fantasy VI...

  1. #61

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    No, it can't. Saying Final Fantasy VI is underrated compared to Final Fantasy VII is like saying Star Wars is underrated compared to The Empire Strikes Back. And thank you for also proving my point.

    There are PLENTY of people who believe Six to be the "end-all-be-all" in the franchise, and the gap has narrowed considerably. That excuse being used solely for Seven was valid in the late 90's, and has been void for years. It still amazes me how all the Six-only lovers have turned into the exact same thing as what they've always hated for years: The Seven-only lovers, and yet still haven't realized it.

    You fanboys have to stop with your ridiculous notion that Seven is the only thing anyone cares about, and every other title walks in it's shadow.


    Oh, and by the by, it's made even more awesome when all this arguing is taking place between two games from the same franchise with virtually the same core dev teams. It might hurt you all just a bit, but Six and Seven happen to be more similar to each other than they are to any other games in the franchise. And just to hurt you a bit more, the next most similar game to either of them would happen to be Eight.
    Last edited by Kenshin IV; 08-26-2008 at 05:24 AM.

  2. #62
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenshin IV View Post
    No, it can't. Saying Final Fantasy VI is underrated compared to Final Fantasy VII is like saying Star Wars is underrated compared to The Empire Strikes Back. And thank you for also proving my point.
    You haven't been to a Star Wars forum in awhile have you?

    There are PLENTY of people who believe Six to be the "end-all-be-all" in the franchise, and the gap has narrowed considerably. That excuse being used solely for Seven was valid in the late 90's, and has been void for years. It still amazes me how all the Six-only lovers have turned into the exact same thing as what they've always hated for years: The Seven-only lovers, and yet still haven't realized it.

    You fanboys have to stop with your ridiculous notion that Seven is the only thing anyone cares about, and every other title walks in it's shadow.


    Oh, and by the by, it's made even more awesome when all this arguing is taking place between two games form the same franchise with virtually the same core dev teams. It might hurt you all just a bit, but Six and Seven happen to be more similar to each other than they are to any other games in the franchise. And just to hurt you a bit more, the next most similar game to either of them would happen to be Eight.
    LIES! VI IS TEH BESTES!!! Seriously your breaking my heart here with your sound and astute logic that bears the absolute certainty that the gods have bestowed upon us, I think I've been brought to tears by your conviction

    You apparently don't grasp the concept of Opinion - Definitions from Dictionary.com

    Kidding aside, I respect that you feel this way about the subject in hand but I ask you also respect that others share a different view and you must accept it may never change to your liking. The fact of the matter is, this forum is about a series of games that people enjoy and though many of us feel strongly about our views of the games; I think most of understand that our bantering is all in good fun (for me at least) and should not be taken to so serious as to outright attack people. In other words... "Why so serious, son?"

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenshin IV View Post
    There are PLENTY of people who believe Six to be the "end-all-be-all" in the franchise, and the gap has narrowed considerably.
    I've never heard of a "VI only lover." Never. Yeah, I'm sure there are people here and there who have played vi and haven't considered playing others or don't like any other FF game, but they have to be few and far between. If vi is really comparable to vii in terms of popularity, where are the movies and spinoffs? Oh, they don't exist because vi isn't the cash cow that vii is because (wait for it.....) vi isn't as popular. It just doesn't have the legions of fanpersons (let's try to be politically correct here) who will throw money at everything that has cloud or sephiroth in it. vii's popularity will always overshadow vi's, and yes, as I very thoroughly explained already, that is cause for some people to feel that vi is underrated. Not getting the due that you feel it deserves=being underrated. Not sure how that one didn't get through.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenshin IV View Post
    You fanboys have to stop with your ridiculous notion that Seven is the only thing anyone cares about, and every other title walks in it's shadow.
    Don't forget, VII was the first game out in PAL territories. The first six, by the time of their release, looked dated and obsolete, even with graphical updates and whatnot. VIII was poorly received if memory serves (it might not), nobody got IX because it was a pastiche on games many of them had never played and once X came out, the franchise was so far removed from its roots that nobody stopped to notice these classics. I'm not even sure if the PSX and GBA ports even sold well, and FFIII DS' reviews in England went along the lines of "we don't know what the fuss is about".

    Ask any British player what a Black Mage is and there's a good chance they'll say "Vivi"... makes sense, he's basically a 3D version of the FF5 sprite. Hell, I spoke to a lot of people who thought Vivi's appearance was "original", because we didn't get any of the first five games with Black Mages in them. Oh yeah, we didn't get FF Tactics either.

    Personally I've been very put off VII by the compilation. And the fanboys are partially right: VII is the only one Square Enix cares about, as it's the one making them the money. Deal with it.
    Last edited by ReloadPsi; 08-25-2008 at 11:08 AM.

  5. #65

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    This thread is overrated.

  6. #66
    not that drug dealer CelestialStarDust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMateria View Post
    This thread is overrated.
    -_-


    Catapultam habeo.Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis,ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    You haven't been to a Star Wars forum in awhile have you?
    God no. I'm not THAT much of a glutton for punishment. It's bad enough I go to a Final Fantasy one on occasions. As for taking it seriously, oh believe me I'm not. In fact I'm far too entertained by this for my own good. Really, should not be this entertaining. And as for the whole opinion thing, that excuse would work if everyone didn't always talk like their own personal opinions were fact. "Seven IS overrated. Seven IS the greatest. Six IS better than Seven. Six IS underrated cause not enough people love it more than Seven." At least I back my opinions up with reason and fact when need be.

    And when I say Six-only lover I don't mean they've literally only played Six. I mean to them Six is, again, the beginning and the end of Final Fantasy, and all others pale in comparison. Which is exactly what everyone always went crazy on the Seven fans for. Believe me, it's understandable. Fans suck, and there are a LOT of sucky Seven fans. I just want people to understand that ALL the fans suck equally. Let's not be prejudice here and think it's only Seven fans. It's actually gotten to the point where Six fans are almost, if not just, as bad. And as someone who loves both of them pretty much equally, I can give you a purely objective guarantee on that.

    Oh, and if you'd like further proof of that fact, you can look no further than the awesomely fanboytastic headline under the Final Fantasy VI section of this forum. It pretty much sums my entire point up perfectly.
    Last edited by Kenshin IV; 08-26-2008 at 05:34 AM.

  8. #68
    Will be banned again Roto13's Avatar
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    Most people are capable of figuring out when people are stating facts or stating their opinions without having it spelled out for them. Nobody looks at "Final Fantasy z is the best ever" and thinks "That guy is totally stating a fact and not his opinion."

    Also, if discussion is somehow a punishment for you, you're more than welcome to get lost.

  9. #69

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    Which is all well and good until your own opinions are critizied. Especially when they're critizied with nothing backing them up.

    Try thinking of it from this perspective. You tell me Six is your favorite, and my reaction is "AH MAH GAWD, NO WAY, SEVEN IZ DA BEST UR CRAZY!" It'd piss you off, and rightfully so. Especially when they don't give you a reason. The same thing happens all the time with those two reversed. My personal favorite is Seven, and I have no issue saying that, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard "UR NOT A TRU FAN, SEVEN IS OVERATED AH MAH GAWD, SIX ALL THE WAY!" If I had a nickle for everytime I heard that I'd be rich. Especially since Six is my next favorite by only a small margin, and about 90% of the fools I've heard that from over the years aren't even as big of fans of Six as I am.

    My only point here is there ARE things Seven does better than Six. There ARE also things Six does better than Seven. And there ARE things that other games do better than either. You might think one is overrated, but that doesn't make you right. Seven deserves the credit it gets, and so does Six, mainly because each game offers a deep and rich story that you wouldn't expect in a video game. Especially for their eras. THAT is fact, whether you find anything to relate to it, or find any entertainment value in it (deja vu?) is your own opinion. If you tell me Six is your favorite, I won't argue it because I can completely see why. If you tell me Four is your favorite, I'd say the same thing. If you told me Nine was your favorite, I'd even tell you the same thing. And so on and so forth. I would tell you I don't necessarily agree with you, but I can see where you're coming from. Now, can you see yourself saying that to someone who's favorite is Seven? Be honest with yourself now.

    And discussion isn't a punishment when you're talking rationally with someone. Which is extremely rare on a fanboy forum. I've already noticed you like to not do that when someone disagrees with you on something. And saying that FF6 or Chrono Trigger is better looking technically than FF7 isn't rational. It's dumb and wrong. Yes, wrong. As in "fact," not "opinion." What you perceive as artistic value is opinion.
    Last edited by Kenshin IV; 08-26-2008 at 06:34 AM.

  10. #70
    Will be banned again Roto13's Avatar
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    And saying that FF6 or Chrono Trigger is better looking technically than FF7 isn't rational. It's dumb and wrong. Yes, wrong. As in "fact," not "opinion."
    The intense blistering waves of hypocracy! They burn! AAUGH!

    See, that falls under the heading of "things that can only be opinion because they are 100% subjective." You're the one who decided the best way to deal with that was personal insults, not me, ducky.

  11. #71

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    You keep trying, champ.

    Like I said, saying it's technically better looking is wrong. Unless you wanna try telling me Super Mario Bros. 3 is better looking technically than Final Fantasy X. Because that is more or less what you're saying. Artistic is another story. Funny you omitted that part from your little quote there.

    You can tell me Okami is artistically better looking than Gears of War, but you can't tell me it is technically. If you want an example of two games closer in generation.


    And now to talk to someone new, since I completely didn't see this person talking to me, and it would be rude to not reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by ReloadPsi View Post
    Personally I've been very put off VII by the compilation. And the fanboys are partially right: VII is the only one Square Enix cares about, as it's the one making them the money. Deal with it.
    Kay. Not my fault you're put off with Final Fantasy VII by games that aren't Final Fantasy VII. I despise the "compilation," but I can certainly disregard it. And sure Square cares about Seven more than any other title, it's their biggest cash cow. That also isn't at all what I was talking about. I was talking about the fans perception, not the company's. I could care less what the corporation thinks. They're in it for the dollar, always have been and always will be. Why do you think you keep getting ports and remakes over and over again? Which happen to be of pretty much every Final Fantasy game. Not to make you happy, that's for sure. Deal with it.
    Last edited by Kenshin IV; 08-26-2008 at 07:29 AM.

  12. #72
    Will be banned again Roto13's Avatar
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    Like I said, saying it's technically better looking is wrong. Unless you wanna try telling me Super Mario Bros. 3 is better looking technically than Final Fantasy X. Because that is more or less what you're saying. Artistic is another story. Funny you omitted that part from your little quote there.
    Because 3D isn't inherently superior to 2D, otherwise the original Wolfenstein would be better looking than Street Fighter III. Good 2D is better than bad 3D.

  13. #73

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    Kenshin IV, you have a lot to learn about debating and the matters of subjective vs objective facts, and subjective vs collective opinions.

    The game is perfect.

    The game is perfect.

    These two sentences look the same, but surrounded by context, or directed with a hint of poise and rational, they could be read completely different. With out this rational, one could assume they are asserting that six was indeed, perfect. In fact, it was not perfect, if you consider bugs and other anomalies. With your rational, it should be apparent that a fan boy fell in love with VI due to, dare I say it?, personal tastes.

    Sure it is annoying when a fan boy gets all uppity, however, I would take a fan boy over a heartless dispassionate world any day. Passion, opinion, and hypocrisy are some of the greatest qualities of man kind. Arrogance and pride are two of the worst. Unfortunately, they do not mix well in the cocktail that is man.

    Graphically, a 2-d game can be better than a 3-d game. This all comes down to the metric in which you used to gauge graphics.

    Same with story.

    Same with music.

    etc... etc... etc...

    I am a fan of both games, and they are both my favorites. Though, 6, in my opinion, satisfies me in a hole different way than seven -- I tend to like six more.

    There has been a few loopholes in the logic people are using, as in saying that 2d is better than 3d, and then saying that there are too man characters, and this is just too much to be right. Using your prior, I would figure than more was better. Using the latter, it seems that a conservative approach to features is more in taste. Therefore, I would have to suggest that the collective logic used is based on subjectivity. You know, subjectivity. The reason they can make different final fantasies with out having to remake the same system and make it better only.


    That, or you are actually flame trolling r0to, which is just hilariously abnormal.
    Last edited by bipper; 08-26-2008 at 05:48 PM.

  14. #74
    Bolivar's Avatar
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    ^ this is borderline nonsensical, for the same reason:

    Quote Originally Posted by Roto13 View Post
    Like I said, saying it's technically better looking is wrong. Unless you wanna try telling me Super Mario Bros. 3 is better looking technically than Final Fantasy X. Because that is more or less what you're saying. Artistic is another story. Funny you omitted that part from your little quote there.
    Because 3D isn't inherently superior to 2D, otherwise the original Wolfenstein would be better looking than Street Fighter III. Good 2D is better than bad 3D.
    Keyword here is "technical". VII's graphics use more processing power, require more memory, usually demand a longer time to make; on the technical side of things they are better. Whether you like one more or not is the aesthetic side of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    I love its world design and art direction, not only showing the best of Amano but making a good steam-punk world which I completely adore.
    How is that possible when (as in every Final Fantasy) none of the actual art in the game resembles Amano's work at all?

    Kenshin has brought up alot of good points.

    not getting the credit it deserves = underrated

    not getting the credit it deserves from as much people as you would like = jelousy

    FFVI DOES get the respect it deserves, this thread is living proof, just because it isn't from as many people as VII is such a childish and whiny way to call something underrated. It's like holding your own personal vendetta against the masses, all the while making generalizations about people you can't speak for.

    I've never met anyone in real life who furiously proclaimed VII was the ONLY good Final Fantasy. I have, however, met tons of people on this forum who say that FFVI is the ONLY good FF, sometimes accompanied by IV as the only good ones. Also ironic is how alot of these people call themselves "old school"/"original" FF fans, when in reality they could not have played HALF of the original Nintendo games, not to mention bash them once they were released in the US.

    And yes, the subtitle below this forum name is WAAAAY too fanboytastic. And I hate that word!

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post

    not getting the credit it deserves = underrated

    not getting the credit it deserves from as much people as you would like = jelousy

    FFVI DOES get the respect it deserves, this thread is living proof, just because it isn't from as many people as VII is such a childish and whiny way to call something underrated.
    Hmm, that's raises a question, and though this will sound sarcastic, it actually isn't. I'm just wondering, how few people need to give something the credit it deserves before it really is underrated and not just jealousy?
    Let's say 100,000 people give VI the props it deserves, and 300,000 do not. Underrated or jealousy?
    ok, 100,000 do, but 5 million do not. Underrated or jealousy?
    only five people do, 5 million do not.
    5 do, 20 do not.
    5 billion do, 100 trillion do not.

    Now let's all agree on an exact figure here. Then, someone do a comprehensive and scientific poll to find out the exact number of people who give VI its due credit and how many people do not, and we can settle this thread once and for all!

    Really, that wasn't sarcasm. Nor was that sentence. Or that one. Or that. Oh crap, I'm never gonna get out of here =/

    Now, I'm not going to deny that there is jealousy involved. I played VII completely expecting it to be the greatest thing of all time from everything I'd heard, and in the end I just couldn't believe that blah game is the one everyone has on a pedestal while saying "what? There were 6 FF's before this? Well, screw 'em, they're old." Yeah, there's jealousy, but I don't necessarily think that invalidates my belief that vi is underrated based on 1-- the newer generation of gamers who have no patience for "outdated" games (I think I just dated myself by calling the PS1 crowd the "newer generation." I'm too old for this board =/ ), and 2-- the fact that, like I said, vii is the cash cow. That's because it has more fans. That's also because vi wouldn't make square gobs of money by making a movie or spinoff games. That's because vi doesn't have as many fans. And vi is a good enough game that I think it should have that many fans. I think that's a perfectly reasonable reason to think something is underrated, jealousy or not. And I'll ignore the fact that you called me... what was it? *glances back up* Oh, childish and whiny, because I have to accept the fact that when people debate online they tend to talk in condescending ways. I'm not saying I'm an exception to the rule.

    So that's where I stand. But I seriously do wonder just what the ratio of enough credit to not enough credit would be to make something not underrated. I think there could be something to that. But I also think that you can be jealous because something is underrated and the two aren't mutually exclusive.

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