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Thread: Final Fantasy VI...

  1. #76
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ,,, View Post
    Hmm, that's raises a question, and though this will sound sarcastic, it actually isn't. I'm just wondering, how few people need to give something the credit it deserves before it really is underrated and not just jealousy?
    Let's say 100,000 people give VI the props it deserves, and 300,000 do not. Underrated or jealousy?
    ok, 100,000 do, but 5 million do not. Underrated or jealousy?
    only five people do, 5 million do not.
    5 do, 20 do not.
    5 billion do, 100 trillion do not.

    Now let's all agree on an exact figure here. Then, someone do a comprehensive and scientific poll to find out the exact number of people who give VI its due credit and how many people do not, and we can settle this thread once and for all!

    Really, that wasn't sarcasm. Nor was that sentence. Or that one. Or that. Oh crap, I'm never gonna get out of here =/

    Now, I'm not going to deny that there is jealousy involved. I played VII completely expecting it to be the greatest thing of all time from everything I'd heard, and in the end I just couldn't believe that blah game is the one everyone has on a pedestal while saying "what? There were 6 FF's before this? Well, screw 'em, they're old." Yeah, there's jealousy, but I don't necessarily think that invalidates my belief that vi is underrated based on 1-- the newer generation of gamers who have no patience for "outdated" games (I think I just dated myself by calling the PS1 crowd the "newer generation." I'm too old for this board =/ ), and 2-- the fact that, like I said, vii is the cash cow. That's because it has more fans. That's also because vi wouldn't make square gobs of money by making a movie or spinoff games. That's because vi doesn't have as many fans. And vi is a good enough game that I think it should have that many fans. I think that's a perfectly reasonable reason to think something is underrated, jealousy or not. And I'll ignore the fact that you called me... what was it? *glances back up* Oh, childish and whiny, because I have to accept the fact that when people debate online they tend to talk in condescending ways. I'm not saying I'm an exception to the rule.

    So that's where I stand. But I seriously do wonder just what the ratio of enough credit to not enough credit would be to make something not underrated. I think there could be something to that. But I also think that you can be jealous because something is underrated and the two aren't mutually exclusive.
    I love you ,,,

    I agree quite a bit and I had a similar experience when I played VII. To be honest, I don't even want to see VI on top. Though its my personal favorite I don't necessarily feel it deserves top billing in a series with so many good games. I only talk down on VII not so much cause I hate it being more popular than games that deserve it but more cause I don't get why its so popular. It wasn't really special to me. Even then I feel both games are pretty overrated and I feel fans on both sides take it too far. This thread being proof.

    As for the Amano bit Bolivar, I feel the sprites in VI are closer to their Amano designs than previous games and IX. Yet another thing that made me make that statement was that I felt VI really captured the "feel" of its actual designs. I could really see the world that Amano envisioned for VI in the actual game. Its hard to explain really.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenshin IV View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ReloadPsi View Post
    Personally I've been very put off VII by the compilation. And the fanboys are partially right: VII is the only one Square Enix cares about, as it's the one making them the money. Deal with it.
    Kay. Not my fault you're put off with Final Fantasy VII by games that aren't Final Fantasy VII. I despise the "compilation," but I can certainly disregard it. And sure Square cares about Seven more than any other title, it's their biggest cash cow. That also isn't at all what I was talking about. I was talking about the fans perception, not the company's. I could care less what the corporation thinks. They're in it for the dollar, always have been and always will be. Why do you think you keep getting ports and remakes over and over again? Which happen to be of pretty much every Final Fantasy game. Not to make you happy, that's for sure. Deal with it.
    The fanboys' perception is what made Square Enix take said attitude towards the game. They probably looked at all the fanfiction, fangames and legions of autistic kids saying they wanted more and thought "Whoa..." This in turn fuels the fanboys' perception further. That's why I brought it up. Effectively, Square Enix have given them a leg to stand on. FFVII is not the only game anyone cares about, but the fanboys have certainly been allowed to believe so.

    Hope that clears things up in terms of what I was thinking

    Anyways, I'm gonna go back on the very first topic of this thread: FFVI is a weird one for me. In my head I think I love it. When I play it I can't stand it. I don't know why. FFVI was also, incidentally, the first game to move away from the "fantasy" theme of the series and lean towards technology. It's got more of an industrial revolution setting than that of medieval times.
    Last edited by ReloadPsi; 08-27-2008 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #78
    Don't get mad, get moist I Don't Need A Name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9 View Post
    Either way, Kefka is well liked because he's just insane. Kinda like how the Joker is just insane in The Dark Knight. They even look similar!
    hes also 50000 times more badass than Sephiroth (who sucks)
    he actually takes over the world
    what other villain does that?
    I made one myself for a change! Although you can probably tell that..

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Don't Need A Name View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9 View Post
    Either way, Kefka is well liked because he's just insane. Kinda like how the Joker is just insane in The Dark Knight. They even look similar!
    hes also 50000 times more badass than Sephiroth (who sucks)
    he actually takes over the world
    what other villain does that?
    His motives kick unfathomable ass too: He basically did it for the lulz.

  5. #80

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    I've been apart of some of these "which is better" I have told many people who grew up post NES and SNES who played Final Fantasy VII for the PS1 that VI was the best in the series and they can't wrap their minds around the fact that Final Fantasy VI broke the mold with the story that was told. I look at these Hard Core Final Fantasy VII fans and they just don't know the pure beauty of what this game had to offer.


    Its gotten so big for these Final Fantasy VII fans to prove that its better they made a movie and numorous spin-offs of That particular game. They can't get enough. Hence back to an original post I put up earlier VI needs no remake or spin-off or actual sequel to an already great game. Don't get me wrong I've seen Advant Children, played the direge of Cerberus, and FFVII: Crisses Core and there all very entertaining. But it just goes to show they have something to live up to.


    If I would say any Final Fantasy thats Overrated it would have to be Final Fantasy VII cause it needs to constantly prove it's the best in the series with its spin-offs where as Final Fantasy VI needs none of that to prove that its a great game and far more superior. Just like the Bible why should we make a Bible II to prove what is what. So those of you who want to say VII is better then VI or VI is Better then VII, go right ahead Final Fantasy VI will forever be a great game and for me personelly The greatest RPG of all time.


    sorry if I sounded like I was rambling

  6. #81

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    O_o This thread in like a breeding ground for fanboys.

    Anyway, I grew up on the PS1. Yup I said it. I love the 3D Final Fantasies. Yup I said it. I also love the 2D Final Fantasies. Yup I said it. Personally, I thought VIII was a crappy game, easily the worst in the series imo. But if your favorite FF is VIII, then hey, whatever. It's your opinion, I can't make you hate the game, nor do I care to. If all you talk about is VIII, or if you try to make me play it, then yea, I'm gonna prolly ignore you at most. What I'm trying to say is, can't we all just live and let live? They're games, no need to act like immature little kids because someone doesn't have the same tastes as you. If FFVII fanboys can't appreciate any other FF, then hey, their loss right? And if FFVI nuts won't let go of the past, then hey their loss right?

    Just so you know, if all you care about is VII, then you got two (2) versions of the original VII to enjoy, plus a bunch of effortless spinoffs (all of which I sadly enjoyed) to play over and over. It's gonna get old. If you refuse to play a game after VI, then prepare to waste your money on remake after remake after remake, cuz I see no end of the barrage of sequels. Both groups are missing out on some great gomes, either way.


    You fanboys are getting to be as bad as (dare I say it?) religious folk.

  7. #82
    Bolivar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima9999 View Post
    I have told many people who grew up post NES and SNES who played Final Fantasy VII for the PS1 that VI was the best in the series and they can't wrap their minds around the fact that Final Fantasy VI broke the mold with the story that was told. I look at these Hard Core Final Fantasy VII fans and they just don't know the pure beauty of what this game had to offer.
    You're making a generalization for people you can't speak for.

    First of all, there are kids these days growing up post SNES and PS1 even that are of the thought that VI trumped VII (Goldenboko, PuPu on this site). Second, there are plenty of people who played VII first and took the time to play through FFVI and simply couldn't see what all the fuss is about, I think that's the entire point of Kenshin's thread here, and of the last "What's the Big Deal?" thread in the VI forum.

    Third, I would ask what the hell are you talking about with the whole "VI broke the mold with the story" comment. On the multiple times I've played/beaten it, I've found the dialogue just as thoughtless and cliche as the previous FF's, with an extremely underdeveloped villain, and I actually think some 16-bit RPGs I played when I had never even heard about FFVI are alot better, story included.

    If I would say any Final Fantasy thats Overrated it would have to be Final Fantasy VII cause it needs to constantly prove it's the best in the series with its spin-offs where as Final Fantasy VI needs none of that to prove that its a great game and far more superior.
    I'm not sure how a game tries to prove its the best with spin-offs, that's an odd statement right there, and many fans of the game don't even bother playing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ,,,
    And I'll ignore the fact that you called me... what was it? *glances back up* Oh, childish and whiny, because I have to accept the fact that when people debate online they tend to talk in condescending ways. I'm not saying I'm an exception to the rule.
    That comment wasn't directed towards you. To actually answer your question, I really don't think there is a set number/ratio where we could determine if something is underrated - because it's not about how many people like a game. "Crime and Punishment" is considered one of the best novels of all time but it will probably never have as many enthusiasts as say, The Lord of the Rings, but does that mean it's underrated? No. Underrated references the popular consensus, not whether something is popular or not.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
    That comment wasn't directed towards you. To actually answer your question, I really don't think there is a set number/ratio where we could determine if something is underrated - because it's not about how many people like a game. "Crime and Punishment" is considered one of the best novels of all time but it will probably never have as many enthusiasts as say, The Lord of the Rings, but does that mean it's underrated? No. Underrated references the popular consensus, not whether something is popular or not.
    I know it wasn't directed at me, but I am in the "jealousy" crowd, so you basically did call me that. I don't mind though, I'm pretty sure kenshin called me a retard back there somewhere, so we're cool. Yeah, I'm a 25 y/o with a Master's degree being called a retard by... *checks his profile*.... crap, no age given. Well, that kills my joke. I was hoping to be able to finish with: "by a 16 y/o. I love the internet!" Well, so much for that. That one wasn't directed at me either. I think it was VI fanpersons. I... wait, am I one of those? I love the game probably more than it deserves. That's fanpersonage, right? Screw it, back to topic.

    Anyway, I see what you're getting at, although the analogy would work better if you took stuff from the same genre. Let's see, I haven't read any bad Russian literature, so we'll stick with Lord of the Rings and add.... let's say harry God damn potter. Alright, well I guess it's two different ways of looking at it. I can see what you're saying. On one hand, the LotR series is well acclaimed, so you would say it isn't underrated. But on the other hand, it's good enough that it ought to be more well acclaimed than the potter books, but it isn't. Well, this analogy isn't working perfectly either, since the potter books haven't had the test of time that the LotR series has, and maybe in 20 years things will be as they should be, while with those two FFs are both fairly close in time. Anyway, discounting the fans completely and just looking at how they're remembered by.... gaming historians? ok, now I'm confused, do we have gaming historians? Please say no. You know, I don't know what to think anymore. But is it really wrong to say that vi is underrated by fans? Can't we just be talking about two different things? vi is underrated by fans, but not underrated by.... gameologists. I think that makes sense. But it's past 4 AM.

    In fact, I think there are a number of angles you could look at it.

    We could be talking about underrated as in, underrated by the fans. I would still vote vi as being underrated for not being above vii when I feel it ought to be.

    Or we could be talking about critical acclaim. If that's it, I may be a big enough geek to post on a FF message board, but I'm not a big enough geek to read dozens of reviews on each game and see which one got the better rating, so I don't know which way that'd go.

    Or we could be talking about its contribution to gaming "history" or whatever, and if that's the case, blah though I think it is, vii did bring FF to the mainstream for better or worse and I don't think vi made any contributions that big, so in that case I guess vii does deserve its #1 spot, and vi is not underrated for being below it.

    Or we could be talking about how well known it is. vii has to be the most well known, vi is not as well known but it ought to be known... so vi could be underrated there too.

    Then there's the usefulness of the object itself. vii's disk makes a great frisbee or coaster, while that cartridge of vi isn't good for anything, so it doesn't deserve to be rated as high as vii there either.

    I get the feeling I should stop now.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by ,,, View Post
    Anyway, I see what you're getting at, although the analogy would work better if you took stuff from the same genre. Let's see, I haven't read any bad Russian literature, so we'll stick with Lord of the Rings and add....
    I object to that. Dostoevsky is one of the most acclaimed authors in the world. And the Russians dominate the literature scene. They've got Dostoevsky (mentioned above), Chekhov, Tolstoy and Nabakov. Lolita is probably the greatest piece of contemporary fiction. So, this is definitely not bad Russian literature.

    Anyway, what Bolivar's point is that VI and VII probably have the same critical acclaim. Popular acclaim is a completely different story. So, Bolivar's point is that, although Crime & Punishment is not as popularly acclaimed as Lord of the Rings, it is more critically acclaimed. And then it is not under-rated.

  10. #85

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    ^ I wasn't calling that book bad Russian literature, I meant I didn't know of anything Russian that was bad to compare it to. Lolita is one of my favorites, but for Nabokov I prefer Pale Fire, my favorite novel of all time. I'm reading Bend Sinister by him right now.

    Oh, and don't leave out Gogol. Dead Souls is the funniest thing I've ever read.

  11. #86

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    "I'm not sure how a game tries to prove its the best with spin-offs, that's an odd statement right there, and many fans of the game don't even bother playing them."

    How do you figure. Everytime I get on the internet, read a video gaming magazine, or walk into a video gaming store, theres talk of another final fantasy VII spin-off. Why have all these spin-offs of a game that wasn't even all that great. Unless its trying to make a moot point and show how great and grand VII was.

    "Third, I would ask what the hell are you talking about with the whole "VI broke the mold with the story" comment. On the multiple times I've played/beaten it, I've found the dialogue just as thoughtless and cliche as the previous FF's, with an extremely underdeveloped villain, and I actually think some 16-bit RPGs I played when I had never even heard about FFVI are alot better, story included."

    Are you serious The story telling in VI was great and within the story itself there were back storys to ever character. They didn't have to come out with a prequel, or a sequel for that matter to explain why sabain left the kingdom behind, or why gau was some wild child, or what life was like for Cyan before his family was murdered. It was all there in the game. The story was so in depth there could never be another like it. Thats what I mean as in it broke the mold. Some storys in a video game can get convoluted and messy this one didn't. each playable character had something to offer. Underdeveloped Villain...I agree with you to an extent Keffka was an all out BADASS he didn't carry a sword (It was a Kick ass sword) as Sephiroth did but he was funny (I agree a little corney at times) but he was another character that I enjoyed. He didn't give a flying you know what about who he hurt he was all out destructive.

    We could sit and debate this for eons but like most of us we will have our favorite FF games and are Dislikes of other FF games.

    [mulley]If you have something else to add, feel free to use the "edit/delete" button rather than double posting. - Flying Mullet[/mulley]

  12. #87
    Bolivar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima9999 View Post
    How do you figure. Everytime I get on the internet, read a video gaming magazine, or walk into a video gaming store, theres talk of another final fantasy VII spin-off. Why have all these spin-offs of a game that wasn't even all that great. Unless its trying to make a moot point and show how great and grand VII was.
    Why: Because it was a popular game to which there is a large demand for expansion of its storyline and new productions featuring its characters/world.

    Hater Translation: Because Big Corporations like Square-Enix like to milk it for everything its worth.

    Whichever translation suites you, that should be obvious enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by 9999
    Are you serious The story telling in VI was great and within the story itself there were back storys to ever character. They didn't have to come out with a prequel, or a sequel for that matter to explain why sabain left the kingdom behind, or why gau was some wild child, or what life was like for Cyan before his family was murdered. It was all there in the game. The story was so in depth there could never be another like it. Thats what I mean as in it broke the mold. Some storys in a video game can get convoluted and messy this one didn't. each playable character had something to offer. Underdeveloped Villain...I agree with you to an extent Keffka was an all out BADASS he didn't carry a sword (It was a Kick ass sword) as Sephiroth did but he was funny (I agree a little corney at times) but he was another character that I enjoyed. He didn't give a flying you know what about who he hurt he was all out destructive.
    The only thing "great" about VI's storytelling was the use of Uematsu's ingenious score, which could convey such powerful emotions with such a limited amount of resources.

    Again, the dialogue was trifle. It was the same amount of crap you would expect from characters stuck inside of a video game, not characters in a story.

    There was nothing deep about it. Everything is on the surface, there is no unique insight which the player is supposed to be left with. "fight for what's right!", "never give up!", "if you get your teen girlfriend pregnant, support her!". These are all a priori values which would are accepted by nearly every culture without any heated debate. If you (or anyone else) knows of any themes which go deeper than this in Final Fantasy VI, please, let me know, in this thread, or send me a PM, because I'd seriously like to find out what they are.

  13. #88

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    Well not to have a pissing contest with you The storyline was great regradless of what you think about it. The story for me was one of the best and yes the musical score was unreal liked it so much I bought the CD a few months later and it helped with the story. But for me the story was strong and powerful and it may be cliche for how the story was told and the dialog may not have been to your liking but for me it was decent.

  14. #89
    ♥ Mayor of Zozo Avarice-ness's Avatar
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    Any game that has atleast one fan is automatically over rated.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avarice-ness View Post
    Any game that has at least one fan is automatically over rated.
    Pretty much. I really don't think it matters. FF6 and FF7 were really good games, but one happened to be more popular (hence the laundry-list of spinoff titles).

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