Top 15 RPG Cliches That Need To Go Away

[Roto13]

Feature: The Top 15 RPG Clichés That Need to Go Away ::: Kombo.com - Video Games, News, Zelda, Halo 3, Grand Theft Auto, Mario, Super Smash Bros. Brawl

Discuss. :P

My thoughts:

15) Level Caps

This really doesn't bother me. Overleveling is pretty dumb, so if that cuts back on that, it's fine with me.

14) Enemy Levels that Scale

As long as it's reasonable, this isn't a problem. Take Final Fantasy VIII, for example. Yeah, the enemies got stronger as Squall got stronger, but it's not like they were twice your level or something. There's no really anything mandatory in FF VIII that is ridiculously hard or anything.

13) Fetch Quests

These are bad for you story people. :P When you're absolutely dying to find out what happens next, running around the world for various random objects is irritating. If you're just in it for the gameplay, though, who cares?

12) Multi-Stage Boss Fights

These can be irritating. I hold back on my MP when I fight a boss because I don't know if I'm going to have to fight another one before I get the chance to replenish it. When you go through an entire game without using a spell or special skill, it really takes away from the experience. :P This can be done right, though. The Kefka fight in Final Fantasy VI had a whole bunch of stages, but you were fighting a giant mass of godhood, so it wasn't difficult to tell that there was more to the fight just by the fact that you can see parts you haven't killed yet. :P

11) Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose

It sucks when you waste all of your items for nothing. It also sucks when you're not sure if you're supposed to win or lose so you decide to lose and you choose wrong. :P

10) Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects

It's annoying if it's overdone, that's for sure. I'd like to think my status spells serve some purpose, because I sure as hell won't be wasting a Blind spell on a five second random encounter.

9) The Destruction of a Home Village

Meh. There are worse story cliches.

8) Amnesia

Oh, no, I don't remember anything! This has never happened to anyone in the history of ever!

7) Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide

I think these are horrible, but not for the same reason as the article. :P There are some puzzles that make abso-freaking-lutely no logical sense and the only way to get through them is to stumble around aimlessly until the puzzle solves itself. Those are dumb. The puzzle the article refers to, though, is not one of those puzzles. For every space you move, the statues move one space. Using that, it's not difficult to figure out what to do.

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

Final Fantasy XII. The Zodiac Spear. smurf you, Square Enix. Moving on.

Yup.

5) Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment

"Hey, we need to get out of here quick! Let's run! Oh, but first, here's some boring-ass story you don't care about!"

4) Constant Party Switching

I would have liked for my Final Fantasy XII backup party to not have been at level 10 for the entirety of the game, because if I did want to use someone later in the game, it wasn't worth the trouble to build them up to a respectable level. On the other hand, you're never forced to use anyone in particular in XII, even Vaan, so at least it never royally screwed you over.

3) Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back

This one is pretty dated. It's just not true any more. There are characters like Presea in Tales of Symphonia or Tifa in Final Fantasy VII or Ursala in Breath of Fire IV. Of course the dainty little débutante isn't going to be a bruiser with a claymore, but that's ok. That'd be... weird.

2) The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

Those are... kinda pointless. I don't bother with them. I don't care if I get a zillion EXP, they're not worth the effort. And do I really need a zillion EXP?

1) The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe

There definitely need to be more lead characters with ball hair. When the main characters are like Tidus or Vaan or Lloyd Irving they always end up being the least likeable characters in the game.

Well there you go. That took a while to write. You're obligated to reply now. xP

[McLovin']

Random encounters should be removed, make them all real time and we're good.

[Roto13]

I agree with you so, so, so much.

[Tavrobel]

Why do I have to reply, Mommy's Boyfriend?

15) Level caps are only there because it's difficult to pull anything else off spectacularly well, in my opinion. Level caps are there to remind people that there are limits to their abilities, and it could save them from the accidental dungeon drop with super hard enemy encounters (though I don't see why game-makers would allow such dungeons to be open, but it has happened before). However, with so many RPGs treating levels as different things, one can't expect to be level 50 for the final encounter and be at a good spot. It doesn't work anymore.

14) Scaling enemies would be cool. Too bad enemies will either always be beneath you, above you, and life tends to get annoying when they have RANDOM ENCOUNTERS DURING A PUZZLE TRAP.

13) No one said you had to do them. More pointless "do this" for "get that." Most people I think would leave them for the end-game anyways.

12) Yunalesca. Next subject.

11) Yes. Remove please. The ass-pwnage can be reserve to a bunch of bright and flashy cinematics.

10) Yes. Kind of sucks the usefulness away from them when they seem to only affect you. Of course, you can't have smart enemy AI that actually has an interest in self-preservation and does the same thing that party can does.

9) Save the world is worse. Why can't we just have "save the city" or "be as evil" as want? Half of the characters in RPGs could care less about the world, so why would they want to save it?

8) Pssht. Amnesia is usually short-term. Without magic (and amnesias are almost never explained with magic), it's pretty hard to get rid of long term or procedural memory. Remove please. Could be in conjunction with "omg I hit my head, now I have mind cancer."

7) Pokemon in a dungeon versus Zubats when you ran out of Revives, and your Anti-Air/Anti-Poison is dead.

6) It's even worse when that weapon is out-classed by a simpler weapon post-game. Eg., Zodiac Spear versus ANY KATANA.

5) Yes. Don't you think the villain would simply take the opportunity to just kill the party during the chat?

4) If the game would actually give you an incentive to USE the characters, party-switching would be so much more useful.

3) Recent games are getting better with this stuff.

2) Well, if it's the Zone Eater, I wouldn't mind. I think this would tie into the whole "boss immunity" subject. Doesn't being invulnerable kind of defeat the purpose of the game? Scripted loss battles, immune-all bosses. Bleh.

1) Old people are old. You need someone with the sexual tension for the female characters. Because everyone in the world is a chauvinistic prick.

[Karellen]

15) Level Caps

No, lower level caps are good. They force you to invest in abilities intelligently and not nerf the difficulty by mindlessly grinding. Isn't it much more satisfying to beat a hard boss because you came up with an awesome strategy rather then just leveling up to 30 and trouncing it? Well, except when that game is Dragon Quest where only levels seem to matter.

14) Enemy Levels that Scale

Pretty much the same deal: it's a mechanic designed so people can't easily nerf the difficulty. I don't really see a problem with it.

13) Fetch Quests

Only annoying if you had something much more interesting to do. Otherwise I'm indifferent.

12) Multi-Stage Boss Fights

I like them generally, as long as each stage is completely different.

11) Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose

Don't really care

10) Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects

Yeah, this is dumb.

9 and 8)

Both seem like arguments for originality, which I can agree with I guess.

7) Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide

How many of these ACTUALLY require a stategy guide? I'm generally not bothered by them unless they're like Roto13 said and completely unnatural. Way for the author to give a non-RPG example, btw.

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

Yes, it's terrible. Not to mention rather unethical.

5) Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment

Sounds like an argument for more intellegent writing. I guess I agree.

4) Constant Party Switching

I don't mind rotating my party members but having them not level up while bentched is kind of dumb. Unless they aren't actually supposed to be with your party and just off in some tavern somewhere.

3) Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back

Once again I agree with Roto13. Character class wise I don't really think it's that much of a problem now days. If we're talking about personality wise though, then I could probably agree to some extent.

2) The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

Only a problem if you're using a random encounter system. Which you shouldn't.

1) The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe[

Once again, argument for originality. Agreed.

I would come up with my own list but I don't think I can be bothered. Maybe later in the thread.

[Vermachtnis]

15) Level Caps

Yea, cause I not only want kill the fluffy bunny outside the first village, I want destroy it's molecule with the weapon that makes the wooden sword look epic.

14) Enemy Levels that Scale

Yea, it can go away too. See above for why.

13) Fetch Quests

I don't mind these. They always lead to something good.

12) Multi-Stage Boss Fights

Nope, one form final bosses are boring.

11) Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose

Yup, go away. Replace it with a cutscene or something.

10) Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects

I'm in the middle here. I love status effects, but after killing 2nd to last boss of Shadow Hearts 2 with an instant death card spell on round 1 I dunno. Poison, slow, blind=yes. Death, stop, petrify=no.

9) The Destruction of a Home Village

They get better.

8) Amnesia

They get better too.

7) Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide

I agree again. Puzzles are fun, but the game peoples are ruining it by making it impossible. And of course I'm stubborn and will use it as a last resort. Looking at you Puzzle #18 of Wild ARMs 3.

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

Final Fantasy XII. The Zodiac Spear. smurf you, Square Enix. Moving on.

Yup.

5) Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment

Doesn't bother me so much. Most of the optional stuff doesn't open up until the world is at the brink of destruction. So why is they can play Skeeball for 50 hours, but not have 15 minute conversation?

4) Constant Party Switching

Yea. Just give me six or so different characters and don't have them leave.

3) Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back

I agree. Give chicks swords now! But like you said it's kinda dated. I mean you have Raqual of Wild ARMs 4, Lita of Atelier Iris, or Farah of Tales of Eternia.

2) The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

Bu-but I like these. See my first comment.

1) The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe

Yea, go away! We need more characters like Jack or Yuri. Angst sucks in general. IF you it must be in my game, give it to one of the special named mooks.

[Yar]

Meh. If you think the clichés are that bad, stop playing RPGs.

[Roto13]

13) No one said you had to do them.

Except when you DO have to do them. Dragon Quest VIII is a pretty bad offender here.

Meh. If you think the clichés are that bad, stop playing RPGs.

It's not like one of the prerequisites for being an RPG is that a game has to be the same as every other RPG ever made.

[ljkkjlcm9]

15) Level Caps
I think level caps are a good thing. Level caps that change as the game progresses are dumb however. Just have a single level cap that can be achieved anytime.

14) Enemy Levels that Scale
I don't have a huge problem with this. I don't think they should scale at an equal rate to you, but making them a bit tougher I can understand.

13) Fetch Quests
Most fetch quests end up being sidequests. Even if they are main quests, it's usually to new areas, so what's the big deal?

12) Multi-Stage Boss Fights
I think they're good, and saving MP and items isn't a big deal to me. Like in Resident Evil 4, I hated using healing items, so I'd just retry if I needed too and such. It was pretty dumb because when I beat the game, half my case was herbs. I don't like using items at all, so saving for a second part of a boss isn't an issue with me.

11) Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose
Well, if you used tons of items, usually there are saves right before stuff like this... just reload it.

10) Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects
I don't have a problem with final bosses being immune to all SE. I mean, if you can be at that point, I don't see a problem with it. I have a ribbon equipped, why can't the final boss? Bosses should be immune to different things as you progress through the game, but late game bosses, I can understand being immune to most things.

9) Destruction of a home village
Enough games don't start this way, and in fact most of my favorites do not start this way, so I don't really see the problem with it.

8) Amnesia
Sometimes it can be crucial. FFVII it was basically the entire concept that Cloud didn't know his real past. So it really all depends on how it is used.

7) Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide
Usually there are hints in the game at the very least. On top of that, when you read a strategy guide you usually smack yourself or laugh that you didn't think of it.

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters
My only problem with this is if it's something you can MISS ENTIRELY. Like the zodiac spear. If it's something you can get at any point after, I don't mind, it's like a nice hidden bonus.

5) Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment
Depends, some games have a timer in the corner that counts down while they chat. In fact, sometimes they purposefully give more time on the counter, making you think you have time, then have the chatty stuff, and you go, oh, I should've moved faster.

4) Constant Party Switching
Characters not fighting should get some exp... not as much, but some. I also hate this because I always have my favorite characters.

3) Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back
REALLY not a big problem nowadays... You could name plenty of games that are not like that.

2) The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

Random encounter in general is a pain. I don't know why XII got such a backlash for not having random encounters, when the fighting system was one of the best ever

1) The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe

Yes and no. The age is more like 16-20, typically 18. And they're thinking, who is most likely to play this, wouldn't it be cool for them to think, hey this guy is saving the world at the same age as me! On top of this, it's usually because of all the OLDER people advising and helping him, that he even has a chance to anyways.
It's like Vaan in XII really had nothing to do with anything.

THE JACKEL

[Yar]

Meh. If you think the clichés are that bad, stop playing RPGs.

It's not like one of the prerequisites for being an RPG is that a game has to be the same as every other RPG ever made.

I never said it was. But frankly, some of the "clichés" on their list aren't much of clichés either. Some of those are comparable to saying "puzzle games are too clichéd, we need less puzzle games dealing with puzzle pieces/puzzle blocks."

I was just saying that if the clichés are so terrible, then don't play the games. Same reason why I don't watch action movies. Their clichés are unbearable to watch in my opinion.

[Roto13]

I don't play bad RPGs. But there are good ones that do avoid these cliches and the bad ones have no excuse to fall into those traps.

[Dreddz]

15) Level Caps

Not a cliche and doesn't make the game any worse in my opinion.

14) Enemy Levels that Scale

Again, not a cliche as hardly any RPG's do it. Oh and I don't mind.

13) Fetch Quests

Depends on how long and tedious it is, but can be quite annoying.

12) Multi-Stage Boss Fights

Makes fights more epic. I love them.

11) Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose

100% agreed. And its not just RPG's that do it.

10) Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects

Well they're not supposed to be a walk in the park are they.

9) The Destruction of a Home Village

I can only really think of Xenogears to be honest.

8) Amnesia

Has the only RPG this person has played Xenogears?

7) Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide

The stupidest cliche on here. This guy is an idiot.

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

So hidden items aren't a good thing? Adds replayability in my opinion.

5) Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment

I can agree with this one. Just stupid. Adding a certain amount of realism to RPG's wouldn't hurt.

4) Constant Party Switching

Hardly an issue when it comes to RPG's. But I wouldn't mind developers working on it a bit.

3) Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back

I see no problem with this.

2) The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

This guy is making these up as he goes a long, why is this a cliche?

1) The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe

This is definitely the most obvious one. I think we can all agree. Go. Now.

Bottom line, this guy shouldn't be playing RPG's. This is probably the stupidest list I've seen in a while.

[Madame Adequate]

Level Caps

Not a cliche, but absolutely e. I basically want as few rules as possible. I have absolutely no problem with having to work like a dog to earn high levels of power, but I want those high levels of power to be attainable. One of the most satisfying things about any videogame is when you've earned a position of near-invulnerability. Whether it's an RPG or a 4x or anything else, earning that level of badassitude is great.

Enemy Levels that Scale

I wouldn't say this is a cliche, but it's also absolute e. Oblivion is the best example by far: You simply should not be seeing random highway bandits dressed up in the spiffiest armor outside of Moonshadow. And you should not be able to stroll into Oblivion itself at level 3 and kick Daedric ass.

Fetch Quests

Yup.

Multi-Stage Boss Fights

Not a problem in themselves, but I see the complaint and agree. I'm always saving stuff up in RPGs, and I usually end up not using them.

Scripted Battles You Are Forced to Lose

Star Ocean 2 was one of the worst for this. There are one or two regular seeming fights that you're meant to lose, and later there are some unbelievably difficult fights that you're meant to win. You're not told that though, and seeing as this is far more difficult than the scripted losses, well.

Bosses That Are Immune to All Status Effects

Agreed. Status effects are pointless in regular fights that last two rounds, just a waste of MP. And if bosses are immune to them (and they often are), then what purpose do they serve?

The Destruction of a Home Village

Yeah, not the worst cliche, but one of the most boring.

Amnesia

Agreed completely. But then no fiction ever does amnesia right.

Overly Complicated Puzzles that Require a Strategy Guide

Alundra means I agree completely.

Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

Nothing wrong with hidden items, but the way to get them must be discoverable through in-game clues.

Overly Chatty Cutscenes During a Cataclysmic Moment

Yep.

Constant Party Switching

I think my beef here is more that it's retarded to think your party would split up at all. Why wouldn't the six of you just go through together? Someone needs an RPG where you have more than 4 characters, isn't a tactical RPG, and everyone's in the fight at the same time.

Boys Up Front, Girls in the Back

Yup. Boring, cliched, and surely a recipe to make Shakes rant.

The Nearly Invulnerable Random Encounter Enemy

Eh, I don't mind this one at all to be honest. Go after it if you want, leave it be if you want.

The Plot Starring an Angsty, Unassuming Teenage Hero Who Will Save the Universe

Given that even Dreddz didn't argue with this, I think it's safe to say that it's a dire cliche that needs to be burnt.

MILF's personal #1 most hated cliche: The Silent Protagonist

No. Just no. It does not immerse, it breaks immersion, unless you are the ONLY character in the world and nobody EVER speaks to you (For instance, DooM). When you're strolling around with a chatty companion and your character never replies? Retarded. Half-Life consistently breaks and damages my immersion due to Gordon never saying anything. And the really funny thing is, of course, that just like so many other silent protagonists Gordon is a character, he's got a backstory and everything, he isn't a tabula rasa for the players to imprint themselves onto him. How he acts is not necessarily how I would act. How others act towards him is not necessarily how they'd act towards me. I cannot insert myself into this quasi-empty vessel nearly as easily as I can empathise with a regular speaking character. Chrono and Suikoden are also dire examples of this.

Edit: Sidenote: I also want to see a game where there are rumors that turn out to be untrue.

[Roto13]

6) Weapons that Can Only be Received After Meeting Very Specific, Secret Parameters

So hidden items aren't a good thing? Adds replayability in my opinion.

The problem isn't hidden items, it's hidden items no normal human being is ever going to find, no matter how thorough they search every nook and cranny, without checking a strategy guide.

One of the most satisfying things about any videogame is when you've earned a position of near-invulnerability.

There's nothing satisfying about level grinding. :P Any moron can do it if they're willing to waste enough time.

Someone needs an RPG where you have more than 4 characters, isn't a tactical RPG, and everyone's in the fight at the same time.

Go, Final Fantasy IV!

It really doesn't make any sense in games where you have like ten characters but if the three you're using die, the entire game ends. Some games (Golden Sun, Final Fantasy XII) automatically throw in your second team when your first one dies, which makes sense. Though I can see why games might not want to throw like eight characters into the one battle, since it's kind of a lot to keep track of. :P

[Madame Adequate]

One of the most satisfying things about any videogame is when you've earned a position of near-invulnerability.

There's nothing satisfying about level grinding. :P Any moron can do it if they're willing to waste enough time.

Oh wow, you're right, thanks! I've gained a completely different perspective on what I, personally, find enjoyable about videogames! :rolleyes2