Not another remake thread...

[Wolf Kanno]

Juxtaposing these first 2 sentences seems to me to be a very sneaky way of connecting unrelated ideas.

Actually, I only said something cause many people were alluding to 2D damaging the games story so I brought it into focus. Beside, nothing gets the fans more riled up than alluding to this game not being super special awesome Just seemed like the fastest way to get the thread back on track.

1) How the story would hold up is irrelevant to art medium. VII clearly is longer...

I'm only quoting you that far because after the longer part, I completely disagree. VII is not really complex, its just told in a convulated way. I still argue that your belief in VII's mature social commentary is as relevant as me or any VI fan saying VI has it for teen pregnancy and unfair class systems. Its generally mentioned once and hardly touched upon... Yet this is not the place to get into that.

Actually the art medium does matter in certain cases. If used correctly, you can enhance story elements that otherwise would feel dry or uninteresting. On the other hand, poor use of the medium can damage strong story sequences. Personally, I feel VII's story would hold up rather well in 2D. Even if it was VI style 2D I feel the plot and characters would hold up as well to me as they did in 3D.

2) VII would be less of a game in 2d, not because it would no longer have its graphics to support it, but because STORY IS NOT EVERYTHING IN A GAME!. So many factors of the direction Squaresoft took are why it had such an earth-shattering impact in multiple continents in 1997. No 2 field screens looked alike; hell, no 2 battles really looked alike; The artwork was so detailed in so many areas, there were so many refreshing things it brought to gaming which contributed to its success. And because alot of these things simply cannot be achieved in 2d, yes it would be less of a game.

I agree to a point. The battle screen is a gross exaggeration though The background is the same and though the camera changes the angle, the camera only has a certain number of angles it utilizes. Boss fights, I've noticed, are always fought in a specif angle. As for detail, I agree that 3D made it possible to achieve VII's level of detail easier and faster but its possible to achieve great levels of detail in 2D. Look at SNK games or Guilty Gear and its astonishing what 2D itself can actually do.

The problem with gameplay though, is that with the exception of the camera angle in combat and the pre-rendered CGI cutscenes, VII does not really utilize 3D in any way that takes advantage of its third dimension that could not have been done in 2D.

The backgrounds are far more detailed, but you still interact with them as though they were a 2D plane. The combat system has a cool camera system that pans around but the characters are still lined up as well as the monsters and ATB works like it did in earlier installments.

Even the mini-games that utilize the 3D never do anything elaborate enough that couldn't have been done in 2D using Mode 7. Actually, the modern summon system was a result of the 3D engine but like many of the visual wonders in VII or any game for that matter, you stop paying attention after the 100th time its used.

The character models themselves have very few actual animations (in normal play, not combat) that it could be handled with sprites. I only said VI style to rile people up but perhaps they could utilize more modern 2D techniques.

I'm not really attacking the game so much as just pointing out that VII's use of 3D would allow it to be translated rather well into 2D if SE felt like screwing with people. Of anything, it would get the fanboys who douse the game for only being special cause it was in 3D off your back cause the game (I feel) would hold up rather well. Personally, I've always felt VII was just a 2D RPG done in 3D, and I'm not really saying that to diss the game. The fact of the matter is that 2D is just another art medium and this is something I feel modern generations of gamers cannot perceive. Very few RPGs utilize 3D for gameplay, rather they keep it for the art form and immersion factor.

that is so true, the story isn't everything, there is also graphics (setting/effects) & music as well... i always find it annoying when a jaded old school purist comes into a later FF forum and starts spouting off that VII and up are lesser games because they have blatant signs of technology in their settings and better graphics, they tend to equate better graphics with lack of story and that just is not true... there are many factors that make up a great game not just one factor alone... sure you can have a good story but having a vivid lush environment makes it that much more enjoyable, and having that environment with really great music makes for a truly entertaining experience... i love all the FFs and can say from my perspective they have only gotten better with time, of course the exception being that giant leap backwards FFIX, but even it had great graphics and beautiful music...

I'm old school but it doesn't mean I hate modern gaming. To be honest, my top favorite RPGs actually hail from the post-VII era (Xenogears, Persona 3, FFT etc...). My problem with newer FFs is not so much because of jealousy of technology but rather I feel they are poorly written and a few of them hide their flaws in the technology. To me, VII doesn't really do this, though I feel the fans use the technology factor as a shield to cover the games flaws instead of accepting the fact it has a few logical problems.

I agree that immersion factor is incredibly beneficial for a game, but where I disagree is how its been utilized. The only FF game to utilize 3D well in the form of immersion is XII. Why? Cause its actually 3D and you can interact and move around in it. VII-X utilize Pre-rendered backgrounds that for the most part (though there are minor exceptions) are still interacted by the player as though you were playing a 2D title. I can appreciate X's backgrounds for their beauty but I do not find them immersive cause it becomes obvious that they are non-interactive due to being pre-rendered.

To be honest, I didn't mind this fact until I played XII and experienced what true immersion in FF could be. Now its hard for me to appreciate the old ways. They are pretty, and I do admire the detail but saying they allowed deep immersion in a way that 2D can't is just silly. 2D is a different art form and though the gaming community has mostly forsaken it, playing through the few that have survived is a breathtaking experience.

I didn't start this thread as a means to bash VII but rather as a means to set people straight on the subject of 2D vs. 3D. To make this more interesting, if VII could be redone in more modern 2D would you still feel the game would fall short of its original greatness?