Whats your take on Piracy?

[Mirage]

.. And Mirage, piracy is stealing!

So I guess if I go to the library and photocopy a few pages out of an encyclopedia, I'm stealing those pages?

The key word is library.. you are supposed to borrow stuff there, and whether or not you photocopy some pages or copy it in any other way doesn't make it illegal. - and it can't really be compared to piracy.. at least, that's what I think.

So what if I give those pages to someone else? Is it stealing THEN?

How about a novel? If I photocopy it at the library, am I stealing it? How about if I take it home and photocopy it? How about if I photocopy it, take it home, photocopy the photocopies and give them to everyone I know? At what point does it become stealing?

BUT IT IS STEALING, DON'T YOU SEE?!

[Marshall Banana]

Breine's in a crusade. =O

[Miriel]

.. And Mirage, piracy is stealing!

So I guess if I go to the library and photocopy a few pages out of an encyclopedia, I'm stealing those pages?

The key word is library.. you are supposed to borrow stuff there, and whether or not you photocopy some pages or copy it in any other way doesn't make it illegal. - and it can't really be compared to piracy.. at least, that's what I think.

So what if I give those pages to someone else? Is it stealing THEN?

How about a novel? If I photocopy it at the library, am I stealing it? How about if I take it home and photocopy it? How about if I photocopy it, take it home, photocopy the photocopies and give them to everyone I know? At what point does it become stealing?

Yeah, I would consider it stealing if you copied a whole book for yourself. Same thing if you rent a DVD at blockbuster and rip it onto a blank DVD at home.

Seriously, what is with you people and your reluctance to admit that you are taking something for free which you are supposed to be paying for? I steal/pirate stuff on the web because I can. Because it's easy. I'm not gonna stand on some imaginary moral highground and site silly little technicalities which make pirating different from traditional theft of property. Of course it's different, technically. But it's all the same. It's a new kind of stealing - there, does that make you feel better about yourself?*

* The "you" I'm referencing isn't specifically you, Roto. It's a general you.

[Roto13]

Taking a DVD and copying it to a blank DVD is copying. As long as that DVD goes back to Blockbuster, it hasn't been stolen because it's still there. It's not a new kind of stealing, despite what the entertainment industry would have you believe.

But, again, it's still illegal. I'm not denying that. It's just not stealing.

[Miriel]

Oh jesus christ. YOU ARE TAKING SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD BE PAYING FOR. STEALING.

[Roto13]

No, I am COPYING SOMETHING I SHOULD BE PAYING FOR. Huge difference.

[Miriel]

Fine, you are copying something that you should be paying for. STEALING STEALING STEALING.

And in a business where COPIES are what you're selling, those copies are every bit as important to those businesses as physical objects are to businesses that sell physical objects.

[Roto13]

Oh, they're copies are definitely the important part of the business, you'll get no argument there. The end result is more-or-less the same (except harder to bust someone for, and there's a gray area about when it goes from backing up to being illegal). People are definitely deluding themselves when they act like it's ok and right.

But they're not stealing

[McLovin']

Keep on seeding.

[Cyric]

First of all, what the entertainment industry is trying to do, by putting draconian law to use on a 14-year old downloading a song from the internet, is completely and utterly the WRONG way to deal with piracy. Metallica REALLY screwed the industry when it decided to make music piracy headline news, and let everybody know that there was a cheaper and easier way to get music, by suing anybody that downloaded their songs. OOPS! Some things are better left unsaid.

The only way people will stop pirating movies, music, software etc. is if they have no reason to do it! Stop forcing us to pay $20+ for a CD that only has 1 or 2 good songs on it. Make the product worth the money! The things that CAN be distributed digitally, SHOULD be. That includes movies, music, software. That would take the inconvenience of having to pay for gas to go to the store and spend more money. It would also virtually elminate transportation costs, which means the price of the product would go down. Lower prices will encourage more people to buy it. With the elimination of transportation costs, comes the reduction of the consumption of petroleum and THOSE prices would go down too. It would also decongest the roads to the point where some roads could be removed, and we could finally start rebuilding our future on this planet (ie. planting trees).

The one catch with going all-digital, is that access to hi-speed internet would have to become a right. In otherwords, it would have to be made public domain by getting rid of the privatization of it. Give it to the government, and let everybody pay for it through taxes. Capitalism, which sits squarely on the shoulders of the corporations, is exactly what is wrong with modern society and the economic instability that is beginning to rear it's ugly head in Canada, the USA, and now Britain from what I hear. This is what happens when so many people get so rich, because just as many people are becoming impoverished and when people don't have money that they used to, they'll take it as cheap as they can get it: PIRACY! Who the hell needs $1,000,000,000? Give some of it back to people that need it. Of course, don't just GIVE it back, because that'll just make people more lazy. Let them earn it. Tell me what you wouldn't do if it would get you $10,000,000 or even just $1,000,000?

The entertainment industry needs to STOP PANICKING, step back and look at exactly what is going on, and THEN try to fix it.

[Madame Adequate]

Be honest, you wouldn't.

I wish I could.

I think we all want a Universal Constructor. Someday, someday...

@ Miriel: It's not theft. If it was theft there wouldn't be any commercial copyright laws on the books because you'd just get done for theft. It's not. However, in common parlance, I suppose 'stealing' serves to illustrate the point. The problem is that there's a legitimate and necessary debate here about copying and so forth - because one day there will be a UC and you will be able to download a car. Obfuscating the debate is dangerous. Because this debate is going to extend to every single thing that can be built. And it's a lot deeper than just 'theft'.

I pirate shows mostly. And I don't feel any difficulty doing so, because of several reasons. One) I usually download that's shown elsewhere long before here. Two) If places let me legitimately watch online, I'd do that instead of pirating. But you go to someone like NBC and try to watch a show they've put online and they tell you to smurf off. Fine. Obviously they don't want my custom or attention. Three) Yeah the reason I don't pay for is usually that I can't afford it. It's not a justification; I'm taking something I'm not legally entitled to. But seeing as how I wouldn't be buying the DVDs if I didn't download, it doesn't make any difference tbh. It's wrong of me to do, but it's also irrelevant that I do it.

[Miriel]

I seriously don't understand why you guys are trying to rely on these technicalities to claim that it's not theft. What's the point? Does not being labeled a thief really make that much of a difference to you? Like I said earlier in the thread, does it really make you feel better about yourself?

I understand stealing to be taking something (even if that "something" is a copy) that does not belong to you and not properly paying for it. Piracy is taking something (again a COPY is SOMETHING) that doesn't belong to you.

You can argue all you want about infringement and how stealing a car is sooooo different from stealing Photoshop but any person with common sense can look at the situation, see that someone is getting Photoshop for free when they should be paying for it, and determine that what just happened was theft.

[black orb]

[Momiji]

I seriously don't understand why you guys are trying to rely on these technicalities to claim that it's not theft. What's the point? Does not being labeled a thief really make that much of a difference to you? Like I said earlier in the thread, does it really make you feel better about yourself?

I understand stealing to be taking something (even if that "something" is a copy) that does not belong to you and not properly paying for it. Piracy is taking something (again a COPY is SOMETHING) that doesn't belong to you.

You can argue all you want about infringement and how stealing a car is sooooo different from stealing Photoshop but any person with common sense can look at the situation, see that someone is getting Photoshop for free when they should be paying for it, and determine that what just happened was theft.

Okay, fine. Technicalities aside, you're getting something for free when you should be paying for it-- it's stealing. We're all rotten thieves.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

[ReloadPsi]

Look, will Breine and Miriel please tell us what exactly it is that is being stolen? There is indeed something that is being stolen in piracy, but it's not the product itself, which is what Roto is trying to tell you. I know what's being stolen, but it seems you don't, so until you give the answer...

...you're going to keep sounding like a bloody ignorant parrot and Roto is gonna keep tearing you a new asshole.

Please continue tearing these bloody ignorant parrots a new asshole, Roto.

And no, the use of "parrot" is not intended to be in any way connected to pirates. They're just a good example of something whose intellectual limits stretch as far as repeating words they don't even understand.

STEALING STEALING STEALING!

Stop quoting crap you don't understand.