Rinoa

**Vost** · 03-14-2009, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Saying that Rinoa becomes Ultimecia in no way explains the final villain. In order to accept the theory, a huge number of assumptions must be made, none of which are giving any support by the game. First, you would have to explain how Rinoa lives to exist in Ultimecia's time, "many generations in the future", despite Square-Enix specifically saying sorceresses don't have extended lifespans. Second, you have to give a reason why Rinoa would abandon her peace-loving principles and decide to destroy the world. And that second assumption is actually a whole series of assumptions, as I'll demonstrate here.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

I'll use the most common argument, that Squall's death coupled with the prejudice against sorceresses drove her bonkers. In that case, explain the following:

Why does Rinoa not simply die right after Squall does? Even assuming the powers of a sorceress could sustain her life, she knows that it would be simple to give them up and be at peace.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Why does Rinoa not start attacking the world until many generations in the future? Squall certainly didn't live that long. Why hadn't she gone crazy much sooner?

Why would Rinoa, a well respected savior of the world, be persecuted and mistreated, especially when she is close friends with the most powerful nation on the planet and is married to the guy who runs Balamb Garden, a free floating city?

This is already explained. She is imprisoned out of prejudice for magic and witches in general before Ultimecia even comes into the picture; she is not the savior of the world at this point, or whatever the heck you're trying to say here. Since you did not read my original post, let me re-post it here for your reading pleasure:

There is a compelling argument in support of one aspect of the R=U theory that involves the explanation of Ultimecia's ostensible vehemence against the world and all in it. Unlike the time sequence presented as canon in the actual story progression of the game, Rinoa, once confined in holding to stem the influence of witches in the world, remains there for an extended period of time. Her aging process thus slowed or even completely halted, her rescue is thwarted by her closest friends and she spends many, many years cursing her abandonment, cursing her captive state. Slowly, she is corrupted by her feelings of desperation; her virtue is weakened and the magic within her begins to degrade her, eventually cementing a new psychology of ire so profound that she is no longer Rinoa but rather Ultimecia. Some time in the future, an event occurs that sets her free from her prison (an event that can be argued to be hinted upon in the game) and she begins to plot her revenge.

However, she does not merely wish to punish the world now as she exists in it, but to punish the world forever, especially the past where she believes she was betrayed by her confidantes and brutalized by those who hate magic and witches. She hatches the plan of time compression and sets events in motion that come to dominate the plot of Final Fantasy 8. So corrupted is she by her hatred that she sees nothing worth saving anymore, nothing worth an ounce of compassion, even if she was capable of such a thing. Her 'possession' of Rinoa is a recognition of her former self, even if only on a subconscious level, a self that she now despises and loathes when set in contrast to the powerful being she has become. Nothing is sacred anymore. The world will pay for the death of her liberty; they will pay for their betrayal.

But this time, because of her intervention in the past, things change. Squall and company do rescue Rinoa, before she is lost to time. But things are too late. Time compression has already begun and Ultimecia is invulnerable to the effects of past or future. Understanding her identity with Rinoa is key to the brilliance of the game: It presents an ultimate story of vindication, an ultimate story of love when Squall is reunited with Rinoa and he disavows any prejudice against her regarding her status as a witch. He declares he will stand by her regardless. This time, she is not betrayed. This time, injustice and fear break against the rock of true love.

Your argument about Rinoa being persecuted as 'savior of the world' is a non sequitor, which means that 'it does not follow,' just in case you did not know. It goes to show that you have preconceived notions regarding the R=U theory and did not even bother to read what I originally wrote in its defense. Why are you even arguing if you do not know the argument? Do you realize that in a court of law you would be utterly ridiculed as incompetent and possibly insane? Let's continue on to the rest of your garbage post:

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Why would Rinoa forget her past life with Squall in her insanity, prompting her to attack him when he faces Ultimecia at the endgame?

Why would Rinoa forget who she was and attack herself at the endgame? After all, if she simply wanted to do away with herself, she could have passed on her powers and perish.

Why would Rinoa forget her previous journey, her battle against Time Compression, only to decide to initiate it herself?

Why would Rinoa choose to name herself after an enemy who she fought so hard against?

Why would Rinoa remember the name Ultimecia, when she apparently forgot everything connected to the name, such as the fact they were enemies, or that they had fought across time itself?

Why would Rinoa replace the white wings on her outfit with black ones? It may seem a silly or minor point, but since it was one of the major points that started the whole R=U idiocy in the first place, you should explain it. After all, even had she gone completely insane and decided to destroy the world, why would she reverse her outfit's color scheme (red/black instead of blue/white)? It's not as though she would say "ooh, I'm evil, let's go pick out an outfit that matches that".

All these questions have already been answered. Here, I will re-post my original post a SECOND time in hopes that you will perhaps read it and stop making an idiot out of yourself:

There is a compelling argument in support of one aspect of the R=U theory that involves the explanation of Ultimecia's ostensible vehemence against the world and all in it. Unlike the time sequence presented as canon in the actual story progression of the game, Rinoa, once confined in holding to stem the influence of witches in the world, remains there for an extended period of time. Her aging process thus slowed or even completely halted, her rescue is thwarted by her closest friends and she spends many, many years cursing her abandonment, cursing her captive state. Slowly, she is corrupted by her feelings of desperation; her virtue is weakened and the magic within her begins to degrade her, eventually cementing a new psychology of ire so profound that she is no longer Rinoa but rather Ultimecia. Some time in the future, an event occurs that sets her free from her prison (an event that can be argued to be hinted upon in the game) and she begins to plot her revenge.

However, she does not merely wish to punish the world now as she exists in it, but to punish the world forever, especially the past where she believes she was betrayed by her confidantes and brutalized by those who hate magic and witches. She hatches the plan of time compression and sets events in motion that come to dominate the plot of Final Fantasy 8. So corrupted is she by her hatred that she sees nothing worth saving anymore, nothing worth an ounce of compassion, even if she was capable of such a thing. Her 'possession' of Rinoa is a recognition of her former self, even if only on a subconscious level, a self that she now despises and loathes when set in contrast to the powerful being she has become. Nothing is sacred anymore. The world will pay for the death of her liberty; they will pay for their betrayal.

But this time, because of her intervention in the past, things change. Squall and company do rescue Rinoa, before she is lost to time. But things are too late. Time compression has already begun and Ultimecia is invulnerable to the effects of past or future. Understanding her identity with Rinoa is key to the brilliance of the game: It presents an ultimate story of vindication, an ultimate story of love when Squall is reunited with Rinoa and he disavows any prejudice against her regarding her status as a witch. He declares he will stand by her regardless. This time, she is not betrayed. This time, injustice and fear break against the rock of true love.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Any R=U theory is an incredibly long and fragile list of coincidences, none of which has any support in the game. And since each list in the chain builds off the other, the more assumptions you have to make (and there are far more than this), the weaker the argument gets.

Incorrect. The R=U theory is a few short paragraphs of simplicity. It wraps up all the loose ends of the game and fits in perfectly with the canonical plot already presented. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but R=U is more or less TRUE, so the sooner you realize the weakness of your counter-arguments the sooner you'll stop criticizing the beauty of a great game.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

No, there isn't.

Ummm...yes there is.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Her aging process thus slowed or even completely halted

Again, where is your evidence that this would happen?

This is straight from the game...maybe you should actually play the game before discussing this?

Originally Posted by Skyblade

and she begins to plot her revenge.

Why would she plot revenge instead of choosing to enjoy her new freedom?

It's called vengeance, ever heard of it?

Originally Posted by Skyblade

However, she does not merely wish to punish the world now as she exists in it,

Why not?

Because she has become consumed by wrath. All existence, not one existence, will suffer her. Hence Time Compression.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

but to punish the world forever, especially the past where she believes she was betrayed by her confidantes and brutalized by those who hate magic and witches.

Your evidence of this betrayal and brutalization is..?

The evidence is in the prejudice against her kind that resulted in many, many years of imprisonment. Anti-magic and anti-sorceress sentiments are scattered throughout the game.

She hatches the plan of time compression

Even though Time Compression was the cause of all her pain.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Yes, it's a lovely fanfic, but unfortunately has absolutely nothing supporting it.

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Conclusion: R=U is likely or at least somewhat possible. Far from "highly unlikely." This should be changed since it perverts the game's beauty of subtle expression.

No, it isn't.

[/quote]

Yes, it is.

-Vost

Thread: Rinoa

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