I've only mentioned most of the things in the Final Fantasy universe; not exactly everything. You are talking about how mathematics are used in the gameplay side and I agree with that. However, this thread is about R=U, which is more connected with the story rather than the gameplay. Do you acknowledge that the story and gameplay are not exactly the same?Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Regarding the gameplay, the accepted or "normal" mathematics definitely have to be used due to two reasons; the origin of the way how the PS system codes came from Maths (as well as binary and so on) and if it didn't use proper Maths; we would be scratching our heads and good chances are that the battles won't reach satisfying results. The quests side also can be applied to this post.
As for the story sequences, it's the same thing. The developers have had to code to make the next sequence appear and so on.
However, proper Maths don't work that well in the story sense (e.g. how the incidents have happened, how did specific physics occur and so on.) The writers of FF8 just put whatever they want in a very sound sense, writing a story does not have to apply to proper Maths; it's not nessecary.
The story did not give us exact numbers, especially when it comes to R=U. You are only using your numbers to aid your interpretation. Using numbers that were not visible in the game tend to be random and therefore may result in either yes or no answer.
This is more complicated than you may think. I'm surprised that you didn't use your Maths to analyse the other factors that may link Rinoa to Ultimecia; instead you only have analysed one thing.Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Where did I mention this "alternative timeline" text that you speak of? R!=U and R=U are not entirely based on this timeline by the way.Originally Posted by champagne supernova
If you are stating things that were not visually available from the game; your statement will then become just speculation. If the game explained more, then perhaps we will have a greater chance of reaching the satisfying results but that does not necessarily mean that such results will become 100% proved or disproved. To make it 100% proved or disproved, the plot of FF8 would become very different and offical statements from SE would be required. The entire story is absolutely fantastic, let's leave it alone.
Remember that U=A thread I've made? I have mentioned something about this. However, I rather go with the mythologies, not the way how timelines exactly work.Originally Posted by champagne supernova
No, you didn't prove that at all. Remember that there are so many factors, not just human life spans-- Just because you have analysed one thing, it doesn't mean you have proved the theory 100%.Originally Posted by champagne supernova
You have mentioned something like "SE humored us just by replacing the names of Rinoa weapons with Ultimecia's weapons; ridiculous" and now you said this whole thing is supported by Dissidia? Having played the game myself and taken Ultimecia's statements seriously, I still am not surprised.Originally Posted by Sir B
This is true though, you have to admit. Most of you people think R!=U is true simply because it does sound make more sense than R=U. That's it.
That was my initial reaction upon hearing the weapon names issue, true. But then I learned that plenty of Dissidia characters use weapons belonging to other characters, and that Ultimecia otherwise doesn't act in any way which implies she is Rinoa. In fact, as has been pointed out, she just confirms the motives offered by the game and the Ultimania, which don't have anything to do with Rinoa.Originally Posted by Serapy
You ask several times why, if Square didn't intend for R=U, didn't they go ahead and say "It's not true", arguing that this implies the game is very open to interpretation and that R=U is hinted at. That's just flat out wrong bad analysis though. Of course Square aren't going to straight out say "it's wrong" since the fact that we still debate this generates publicity for the game! And here's a question back at you: if they did intend for R=U, why didn't they put anything at all in the Ultimania which hints at it, and why did they instead have the Ultimania imply something quite different (and in addition make the theory almost impossible via the lifespan comment)? Further, why didn't they make it clear in Dissidia? It was a perfect opportunity to put some serious hints in, but they didn't. Why? It goes both ways. You can't appeal to Square's lack of confirmation as an argument in any way.
Um, and what exactly is wrong with believing the option which makes sense rather than the option which doesn't? I don't know what you're even trying to say here. R=U has been shown to lack evidence and require a whole lot of made up assumptions to even work in the first place, while R=/=U has been shown to make perfect sense, and to be implied by the game, the Ultimania and Dissidia. Is that not good enough of a reason for believing R=/=U to you?This is true though, you have to admit. Most of you people think R!=U is true simply because it does sound make more sense than R=U. That's it.
If we're going to start accepting theories which don't make sense, which is what you seem to be saying, then you've got to make room for inane theories like Irvine=Ulty. And frankly that's silly.
This is the type of information that is important to keep in mind. In games like Dissidia, the developers usually try to keep factual story and character traits in tact.
In Capcom Fighting Jam, for example, we can see characters from various Street Fighter games react in a factual manner despite the non-canonical nature of the game. Based on the way that games like this are usually handled, I am very certain that the Rinoa and Ultimecia theory would have been referenced if it were meant to be something that the player should contemplate.
I believe in the power of humanity.
Applied mathematics is a method of taking real-world problems and putting it in a mathematical context, so it is easier to solve (although I don't study Mathematics, I study Economics, so I do a hell of a lot of applied maths).
You asked me to prove R<>U through the use of Mathematics. So I put the argument that Rinoa cannot exist in Ultimecia's due to the huge timegap between them - and the fact that there was no natural way for Rinoa to last until then. The Ultimania explicitly stated that a sorceress has a normal lifespan, which kind of implies that there is no magical way to extend one's life, otherwise sorceress' would use these magical techniques to extend their lives. This is reinforced by Adel scouring the world, searching for a successor.
And you cannot argue about years either. Laguna in the flashback is 27, and is 44 in the normal time of the game. These 17 years also represent Squall's age (unsurprisingly, as he fathered Squall at the time of the flashbacks). So, years and aging is normal either.
Another piece of evidence why Rinoa is not Ultimecia is the fact that everyone has to believe in the other so that they continue to exist in Ultimecia's time - if they stopped believing in each other, they would fade away, as they cannot exist in Ultimecia's time (this is said by Laguna, by the way).
So there is no normal way for Rinoa to live long enough to be Ultimecia. This would appear to be a very very very good proof as to why Rinoa is not Ultimecia.
I also cannot see a Rinoa from an alternative timeline manipulating the canon timeline, simply because the canon timeline is full of paradoxes. SeeD was formed because Squall fell into a time warp and met Edea in the past. Squall only fell into that time warp because he was a SeeD. This is a circular loop. Any interference from an outside source would cause some influence in this loop, and cause it to stop working properly.
Basically, if someone wants to prove R=U, then they must show how Rinoa can exist in Ultimecia's time, without messing up the delicate balance of the circular loop of the game. Playing the game we can see that this loop does hold, and therefore the destiny of all the main charcters is predetermined. This is also a massive theme of the game, reinforcing the fact that R<>U.
So, show me that Rinoa can exist in Ultimecia's time. Because until anyone can, R=U is a highly highly unlikely theory.