The problem is you're missing the point. Plus, if you like a good story, you're not going to find a whole lot of them in video games. Most game stories are crap. If they don't feel like they were shoehorned in around the gameplay, they're just there to give a context. For every good game story you can name, I can name at least ten books or movies that have better stories. Plus, they're cheaper and there's none of that pesky gameplay to get in the way.
Originally Posted by Roto13
Or Visual Novels.... they tend to have a bigger focus on story in general.
I like game with good story myself.... but if the gameplay is so damn easy that I can snore through it, I likely won't play very long unless the story completely blows away any book I ever read. And most of the time, the stories in video games are worse than those in books(in other words if you take a game with a strong story and compare it to a book that is good, the book will likely be better written overall... this is due to the fact that the book only has one focus, to tell the story).
Basically if the gameplay is worthless why should I buy a 50 dollar story that is subpar to the 8 dollar stories I can buy... in addition the 8 dollar ones don't have the annoying DRM stuff going on around them. I'll take my 8 dollar book thank you very much. The interactivity of games is what differentiates them from other story telling mediums. If that area stinks, than the game is more or less worthless. Visual Novels can have good interactivity(in a choose your own adventure way, or even in a game way) and they can also get a strong story. That is an example of a good game. Excellent story and excellent gameplay/interactivity. Of course a difficulty setting is always a plus, and I don't see any reason a game shouldn't have one.
STILL Updating the anime list. . . I didn't think I was that much of an anime freak! I don't even want to consider updating the manga list!
>>> People dont have the time and energy to put enough effort in videogames these days..
most of the old games were targeted to no life adults who had all the time in the world.
So yeah, I think new gamers are.. different.
>> The black orb glitters ominously... but nothing happens..
I don't completely agree with that. Some of it is because companies are trying to attract more people, the other reason is because games are simply made better now. Games used to be too hard in the past because of some limitations like sparse save points or glitches.
Roto13 - you are ignoring the part where I said I also play games to immense myself in a beautiful world, which is why I play TES-games. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" reason to play games, neither have I misunderstood anything. We simply play games for different reasons. (I also play other types of games, of course, those are just my main reasons).
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You know, I had a conversation with a friend maybe a year ago specifically about why games used to be so much harder (which isn't totally true. There were plenty of Mario Bros. back in the day for every Ghouls 'n Ghosts). There were a few reasons why games were so damn hard that makes complete sense. A lot of them were just poorly designed and/or programmed and managed to be fun anyway somehow. Ghosts 'n Goblins is a great example of this. There are points in the game where enemies and attacks are just plain unavoidable. If you could dodge them I dare say beating the game may be possible for the average gamer, but as it is they make the game an exercise in frustration.
There's also the simple fact that without ridiculous difficulty levels, most games back then wouldn't have had much replay value. Consoles of the day just couldn't support games with 80 hours of story and 200 hours worth of side quests and new areas to explore (barring procedural generation, but I digress), and unlockables were pretty much unheard of. There are more than a few old school games that wouldn't last an hour if you stripped away their difficulty and then you'd be left with no reason to ever touch it again. On the other hand, a challenging game would keep you coming back in the hopes of mastering it and be a much longer lasting and rewarding experience.
I'm not going to harp on about "casual games" this and "game crash" that now, because I personally don't see there being a shortage of challenging games. If anything, I think the shift in the industry to online multiplayer being a large part of gaming now has brought all new challenges to games now. Now the challenge isn't cheap AI or a limited number of lives; it's one players skill against another, and when it comes to online games, there are plenty of highly skilled players out there for those looking to be challenged and have to learn a game to test themselves against. I think most difficult games have simply become better designed so they're less of a baptism by fire and more, get you used to the game, then crank it up. And of course, there are plenty of indie titles that fill the niche of being so difficult right off the bat that they make you cry, and a few mainstream ones that do too. Try playing God of War on the highest difficulty and see how easy that is.
Personally, I don't think there are all that much fewer super difficult games out there as compared to the 8-bit days. As a percentage of the total market, definitely smaller, but overall? Maybe not. The market has grown tremendously since then and it's not all about us anymore. It just means if we want a challenging game we have to look a little harder, and maybe try cranking up the difficulty more often.
Roto13 I don't think most stories in games are especially bad but more along the lines that they are tailored towards a younger audience.
Most people who play games play them in their teens and pre-teen years and generally lose a bit of interest in them as they get older. That is slowly changing as the original NES crowd gets older but overall the average gaming age is still probably only 16 or 17 (at least for rpg's (other genres probably have a bit of an older crowd)). Therefore they are going to have to make stories that would interest people of that age and if you are older than that you are probably going to think the stories are pretty dumb.
And you know a solid way to avoid the mess that has been brought up in this thread is simply to make difficulty sliders commonplace and more intricate in all games. That way if you want the gameplay to be easy so you can concentrate on story you can do that. And if you want the game to be challenging you can have that as well. Simple as that.
Pretty much every sports game I have seen does have sliders. But I don't think it has become commonplace yet for adventure or rpg games to have them.
Last edited by darkchrono; 09-21-2008 at 02:55 PM.
Actually, the last I saw a year or two ago, the average age of gamers is early to mid 20's.
What really irritates me in some of today's games are the ones that are supposedly "hard" but for all the wrong reasons (poor design,terrible controls etc.)
I always say "give me challenging games" but i want them to be cleverly difficult not "cheaply" difficult.If the controls,battle-system or any other kind of gameplay is perfect and functional 100% then yes,by all means do try and make them as challenging as they can be.
For example,a game that doesn't reward you of having the option to save it after you have overcomed a hard part is not challenging,its poorly designed and cheap.If the Designers want to make them challenging but in a fair way,they have to think harder than that.
That might be true for video games on an overall genre basis. But RPG's(which is what most of the people on this site are into) probably has a bit of a younger average.Actually, the last I saw a year or two ago, the average age of gamers is early to mid 20's.
You do have alot of adults who play sports games and those online adventure games. But I doubt to many adults are rpg players.
I can't see them writing the stories in Grand Theft Auto or God of War for kids unless Jack Thompson is right. The problem isn't that they're written for kids. The problem is that they might as well be.
i think thatd be more a matter of opinion. but then again your probably right cause the whole point of a book is to have a good story (despite some of them sucking). a video game can make up for lack of story for good gameplay. and yet sometimes you have games that have bad stories and boring gameplay.
as for game difficulty id say games will never be as challenging as they were. which disappoints me cause i love the old hard games. ninja gaidan, mega man, ghouls and ghosts even the first Mario caused headaches. games today are so easy i usually have to try and beat the games on extremely low levels just to make it challenging. and hard mode is a must if available.
lynx
beaten final fantasy III,IV,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X,X-2,XII,mystic quest, tacitcs, tactics advanced, crystal chronicles.
you only live once but if you do it right once is enough
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I don't think it's completely hopeless. Ninja Gaiden, Mega Man, and Mario all have recent (or near future :P) sequels that are pretty challenging. (Mario Galaxy might not be tough from start to finish, but if you want to collect all of the stars, there are some pretty damn tough ones.)
i have no idea if the new ninja gaidan games are hard or not? mega man x's i found easier then the originals. and i havent played mario galaxy but i felt after mario 2 they were all easy. but theres still hope for the older games on new platforms.
lynx
beaten final fantasy III,IV,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X,X-2,XII,mystic quest, tacitcs, tactics advanced, crystal chronicles.
you only live once but if you do it right once is enough
my FF amvs
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