von Beethoven?

[Big D]

Hmm... I've always known his full name, but it never really bugged me before that he's not commonly referred to as "van Beethoven" rather than simply 'Beethoven'. It's always "Beethoven's n^th Symphony" instead of "van Beethoven's n^th", which is actually quite odd and inconsistent with how Germanic names are usually treated in English.

Von is the German equivalent of van, and has the same meaning in this context. His parents were named van Beethoven, so it's not an affectation on his part - and according to Wikipedia, 'van' isn't associated with noble names in the same way as 'von'. They mean the same thing, but the usage varies.

If he's called 'Ludwig von Beethoven' in a source, then presumably it's either an error, or a German text that's using the German equivalent of his name, or it's simply using the German word for whatever reason.

My real name is The von Ceej

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense - 'The of Ceej'? 'The from Ceej'? It only really works with proper names, I believe.

[Momiji]

So, either way is correct? o_O

[Roto13]

No. :P

[The Ceej]

You can't just say "Maybe everything I learned in college was wrong" just because of one simple error that really makes no impact upon what you have learned. Everyone makes mistakes. This one was just the mistake of whoever wrote the book.

Fine. Nobody gets the Dechert joke. Whatever. Moving on.

My real name is The von Ceej

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense - 'The of Ceej'? 'The from Ceej'? It only really works with proper names, I believe.

The Ceej is a proper name. First name, The. Last name, von Ceej. At least that's how I fill out internet forms... Sans the von... Until now.

[Roto13]

You can probably pester Leeza into changing your name for you.

[nik0tine]

Has it occurred to any of you that 'van' and 'von' might be ambivalent?

[Big D]

They are, basically. Different language, but aside from that they're nigh identical.

[Momiji]

Has it occurred to any of you that 'van' and 'von' might be ambivalent?

They are, basically. Different language, but aside from that they're nigh identical.

So, either way is correct? o_O

No. :P

[Big D]

The 'O' in Irish names like O'Malley or O'Brien means almost the same thing as 'van/von', but that doesn't make it right to use the wrong one. Ludwig O'Beethoven? Ludwig MacBeethoven? Not right. Same goes for Ludwig von Beethoven, though some sources use that occasionally for reasons of geography.

:edit: as a further exameple - my name's David, but the Gaelic form of that name is Daffyd. Different version of the same word, but only one's actually my name.

[The Ceej]

You can probably pester Leeza into changing your name for you.

And then, what do I do next week when I've changed my mind about von Ceej and moved onto another ridiculous phase? Pester her again? If I did, I'd sure remind her it was your idea.

[Shlup]

That's it, I'm officially sticking with MacBeethoven.

[Bunny]

MICKEY B'S

I'M LOVIN' IT

[The Ceej]

That's it, I'm officially sticking with MacBeethoven.

And the Shakespeare character with the self-fulfilling prophecy to become king is von Beth. If you can do that, I can do this.

Damn. Then we lose all sense of order and balance in the world.

[bipper]

Damn. Then we lose all sense or order and balance in the world.

The World of Ruin is way better anyways.

[Aerith's Knight]

Hey guys, van and von aren't the same.

Even in the dutch language you have people with von in their last names.

Dutch names are way better. *puts up two fingers*

WHOOOT!