Most complicated story?

[Wolf Kanno]

Ultimecia wasn`t exactly not one of the plot`s elements, though. If you have managed to write about the backgrounds of the characters (Squall, Rinoa, Zell, etc.) then I'm sure it would be also logical to write about the background of Ultimecia because she was the main villain. However, that's a problem, since her background wasn`t not fully detailed. Sloppy writing? Well, it hardly takes countless hours to add dialogues such as "I'm Ultimecia, my goal is [sic]", "Why did I come here? [sic]", etc. which should be quite enough to complete her background information.

I don't play the card game, what a shame.. :rolleyes2

I forget to mention that I voted for FF X-2.

Well, with the exception of Squall Laguna and Rinoa, their is little to say about the other characters, they appear, fulfill a niche character in the party and never grow again until the orphanage plot twist in which they once again never grow as characters. So once again I feel I'm in the right when I say there isn't much to think about. Their great characters just paper thin.

As for Ultemacia, she is a major plot element cause she is indirectly the cause of everything. Time Compression is a major factor in the story its weakly explained but we're allowed enough info to gleam from it that it makes Ultemacia a goddess. Yet the game never explains why she would need such power, nor how she came to the conclusion that Time Compression is the best way to do it?

It doesn't seem she needs power since she rules her timeline. Looking back at her dialogue as Edea and Rinoa, it doesn't even seem like she fears SeeD just hates them. For all we know, she could have just decided her power meant she should become as powerful as the original goddess who gave birth to the Sorceress'. The lack of clarity makes her rather disappointing. Its no wonder that many FF fans place her in the same camp as Cloud of Darkness, Zemus, and Necron.

The games use of time travel is not hard to figure out:

Ultemacia uses time travel to send her consciousness back in time so she can manipulate events and get a hold of Adel so she can use her powers to initiate Time Compression for whatever reason...

Ellone uses time travel to try and change the past for her and Laguna but ultimately fails and realizes her meddling only made the past into reality.

Squall and co. use time travel during Time Compression to travel to the future and kick Ultemacia's ass.

Ultemacia uses time travel to go into the past to relinquish her powers so she may finally die in peace. She gives them to Edea and much like Ellone, sets up the conditions that will allow her pre-dead self to travel back in time and and try to get Adel and create Time Compression.

In four blurbs I've explained all of the time traveling involved in VIII's plot. As well as most of the plot.

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Bolivar... You think I read too much into things? Course we've done that debate too many times by now.

[champagne supernova]

There are some subtlety in VIII. The Laguna and Julia romance which never got started; Cid's love for a wife that turned evil; Quistis (shame in every single way); even the son you reunite with his mother in Fisherman's Horizon. There is also hints of broken families - all of the characters seemed to dislike their parents, except for Zell. However, I will agree that VIII is more convuluted than complicated.

I don't really know how to define complicated in this sense. I think a complicated story is one where not everything is clearly defined, black & white. In that regard, I think VII is probably the most complicated. Yes, there were some serious gaffes with the translation of the script which makes it lose its polish, but some of the themes are amazing. When you bomb the buildings with AVALANCHE, there is a sense of moral duality going on, especially as the game progresses. Yes, Shinra is a big evil company, but is the killing of innocents for the greater good justifiable?

The love triangle is interesting. But the examination of self by Cloud is more interesting. It is almost an exaggarated example of how a weak personality, someone who wants to be great but isn't, can be dominated by a stronger personality & try to adopt those traits. Sephiroth is also not morally reprehensible at first (before he becomes a power-hungry git). Here was a great soldier, who had no past, no mother, no history. And then he suddenly finds out where he comes from - surely that would make anyone angry. I could go on and on with some of the things in VII, but I'll finish off with one thing.

The whole use of Mako to kill the planet is a wonderful analogy of what is going on here at the moment. And this game came out a long time before global warming hit the mainstream media. Now all we focus on is big business damaging our non-renewable resources - and VII bought up many of these issues before they came up. That's why it could be one of my favourite stories.

[hhr1dluv]

As a side question, how many of you are usually able to piece together all the plot threads just by playing the game? I usually beat the game, and then look up a synopsis to better understand everything. But then, maybe if I had more time for replays, I wouldn't have to look anything up.

[champagne supernova]

As a side question, how many of you are usually able to piece together all the plot threads just by playing the game? I usually beat the game, and then look up a synopsis to better understand everything. But then, maybe if I had more time for replays, I wouldn't have to look anything up.

I generally understand most things the first time I play through (even in VIII). But if you want to try understand everything, you have to replay it.

[Roogle]

Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy Tactics have an underlying political story aside from the overlying character story. I think that this quality gives both games a more complicated story over the other games in the series.

[Wolf Kanno]

As a side question, how many of you are usually able to piece together all the plot threads just by playing the game? I usually beat the game, and then look up a synopsis to better understand everything. But then, maybe if I had more time for replays, I wouldn't have to look anything up.

I generally understand most things the first time I play through (even in VIII). But if you want to try understand everything, you have to replay it.

Same here. I think Tactics and Xenogears are the only games I've played where further playthroughs really helped solidify concepts in the plot. Course those games are pretty much books in comparison to any game that came before them in terms of information and depth.

[Vivisteiner]

Its too wishy washy a question m'afraid.

I don't really know, but FFVII, VIII and Tactics are all contenders. Although as some have said, complexity aint necessarily a good thing. Then again, FFIX has greater philosophical complexity imo.

[Wolf Kanno]

Its too wishy washy a question m'afraid.

I don't really know, but FFVII, VIII and Tactics are all contenders. Although as some have said, complexity aint necessarily a good thing. Then again, FFIX has greater philosophical complexity imo.

I'll agree with you on that.

[Dr. Acula]

Kingdom Hearts 2.

[Wolf Kanno]

Kingdom Hearts 2.

Lol! How so?