Street Fighter IV

[Depression Moon]

I didn't know it was being released for the PC as well.

[Dreddz]

Though i know many people that LOVE the game, so its an either you hate it or love it. I freaking hate it think its one of the lesser worse games in SF. Imo SFIV is very ambitious, i was afraid Focus Attacks would be too parry-like, but the way its built made it much more interesting and the 3-D models were a big step for many as well.

The additions they have made for SFIV still seem like incremental upgrades from SFII. The way they evolved Street Fighter from the first game to the second and then to the third was much more ambitious and brave from Capcom.

I love Street Fighter and really want the series to lead innovation within the genre but it seems Capcom would rather play it safe like all the other companies still making fighting games and stick to what its knows best. Maybe you want that but I sure don't.

[Wolf Kanno]

I am looking forward to the title. I've been a big fan of Street Fighter since the original SFII debuted in arcades. Regretfully, I don't own any of the systems its available on (except PC but I will damn if I ever put a fighting game on this machine) but I could look around a few of my arcades that amazingly still exist out here.

I recently have collected a group of guys who love the old 2d fighters and we tend to hold tournaments so hopefully I will gain back my skills that have diminished over the years of playing RPGs and strategy titles.
I admit, I'm a bit with Dreddz that I feel SFIV is trying too hard to be like SFII 5.5 edition. The backtracking annoys me a bit but the game does look solid and the interviews sound like the team has put alot of love into the title so I'm pretty confident it will be pretty good. Still... I miss not having a boxing character like Balrog (M.Bison) or Dudley.

[I Took the Red Pill]

By the way, Chun-Li or GTFO.

Now we know what Joel did when he got banned. He made another account.

[Lionx]

Imo theres something for everyone, especially the Focus Attacks for those who liked the Parry system. Except its not an all encompassing universal low risk defensive system like Parry that weakens fireball zoning characters...now theres actually a risk you are taking this time and thats important in differing characters and playstyles imo.

I remember people wanted new characters, but when they saw SFIII and only recognized Ken and Ryu, people thought the chars were too wacky/not familiar or something(not that the original cast wasnt however, but it was iconic). I feel they did a good job here in giving people back in the days what was familiar and introducing the 4 new weird characters. I am particularly interested in Abel(who reminds me of Alex alot) and i think Rufus is hilarious being so huge yet one of the fastest in the game.

I think this game is well played based on past experiences for Capcom. Remember their last successful 2-D fighting game was Capcom vs SNK 2 like..8 odd years ago(Fighting Jam does not count as a fighting game...). And that imo was also pretty innovative by pushing/perfecting their ism/groove mechanics.

What would you like to see though in SFIV? I mean people wanted new characters in SFIII but it was just too different so many didnt like it...so now they are pushing in old and a handful of new which i think is the best compromise. EX Moves are there(one of the best things in SFIII I loved). Parry was deemed too powerful (Especially Red Parry i mean wtf parry in blockstun? Thats like DoA...), they balanced it out in CvS2 and now they do a focus attack to compromise it.

Still... I miss not having a boxing character like Balrog (M.Bison) or Dudley.

Balrog is in the game, but i agree, needs more Dudley. He is awesome.

[Depression Moon]

The visuals in the game look amazing. I wonder how Crimson Viper plays, she might add to my favorite character list.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't mean to sound like I'm dissing on the whole return of the original "twelve warriors" but I think it would have been nice to skim out a few of the SFII characters (Vega comes to mind, as well as Zangief and Guile, though I'm certain I will be lynched for those two), maybe added in a few SFIII characters (Alex would have been nice) instead of reusing most of the original cast and adding few fan favorites from the Alpha series (though its much appreciated). I do enjoy SFIII, mostly for its turn towards more aggressive play styles but I do feel the IV can deliver on that as well.

I'm just saying that IV at times feels less like IV and more like Super Street Fighter II: Alpha Hyper fighters edition. Sometimes you need to let go of some of the fan favorites, especially when they don't work as well in later titles.

EDIT: Balrog has finally been confirmed? That's good. Last I heard, they developers were thinking of dropping the boxing characters altogether for more wrestling/mix martial art characters.

[Depression Moon]

Zangief, Vega, and Guile dropped? Nah nah, that's terrible. The only ones that I want them dropping are the stereotypical Dee Jay and Barlog.

[SuperMillionaire]

I'm actually looking forward to playing as Gouken.

[Dreddz]

This is the first time I've heard someone clamoring for Balrog. In my opinion he has just been a burden to the series. He actually represents the biggest flaw in SFII by that he is such a low tier character that he ends up being useless. No matter how good you get with Balrog you will always be smoked. Dudley was a far superior replacement. Oh and Guile doesn't deserve to be skimmed out. Geez hes like my favourite character in the entire franchise, you take out Ryu before you take out Guile in my opinion.

I'd personally like to of seen the frames of animation carried over from SFIII to SFIV. But of course all the SFII loyalists won't have any of that.

[Wolf Kanno]

OK, now don't get me wrong, I didn't mean I like Balrog, I was more implying I felt it odd to remove the boxing characters. I know Balrog sucks but I feel we need someone representing and since SFIV is about not taking anything from SFIII we should know that Dudley was going to be denied from us.

I'm also for Dee Jay being removed or overhauled Ryu and Ken are staples so fat chance (besides, I'm a Shotokan Player), I would take Dudley over Balrog any day. I don't like Guile and I just feel he has not improved much over the years. I guess I feel he hasn't really changed since the original (minus the "handcuffing" glitch) and as the series refines the battle system he feels like a slow dinosaur. It was really apparent in Alpha 3 and some of the Vs. titles. He needs an overhaul or just be removed.

Vega... is nice but he has never been able to bring himself back up as a strong character once he became playable. He was amusing cause of his Stage but without it, he loses quite a bit of his versatility. They have done alot for him but characters like Cammy came along, who gave players a similar style of play with better versatility and well... I feel he's lost his edge.

[Lionx]

I do enjoy SFIII, mostly for its turn towards more aggressive play styles but I do feel the IV can deliver on that as well.

I would sorely disagree on many reasons...I feel the game is more turtling than ever before. =/

In my opinion he has just been a burden to the series. He actually represents the biggest flaw in SFII by that he is such a low tier character that he ends up being useless. No matter how good you get with Balrog you will always be smoked. Dudley was a far superior replacement

How can you say that? In Super Turbo Balrog was one of the strongest characters in the game, he was pretty much top tier along with Dhalsim, O.Sagat, and Vega. He builds meter insanely fast, has a very fierce rushdown, and his super does more than 60% damage and juggles. You really should Youtube some ST Balrog, he is pretty dope. Even in CvS2 he was alright, not top but formidable. Only game where he was kinda meh at was Alpha3.

Dudley is still superior though in terms of character design and class.

Vega... is nice but he has never been able to bring himself back up as a strong character once he became playable.

Vega was definitely top tier in Super Turbo and in CvS2. ST has his wall dive shannegans which is very hard to get out of.

YouTube - Evolution 2008 DVD Trailer

@2:47, thats pretty hard to avoid once he gets going...like it says, its downright dirty once he gets the initial knockdown and if you play it right. He can Isuna Drop/claw you, knocking you down, then go in again while you are already down, and if dont reversal Dragon Punch right or dont have a Reversal it can be hell. Course if you try to air to air it like Bison with his jumping strongs, did in that clip you can get nailed too if you dont know where he ends up. Wall Dive Shaneigans.

In Capcom vs SNK 2 he is the staple entry character for the dominent Custom Combo groove ousting out Sakura's previous place because it is really hard to get in on him and usually can take out your entire 3 man team if played right...he just has no horrible matchups, at worst its 75/35 against him imo.

Vega has been hax in just about every game imo except in 4 from what i heard. @@; Guile too, he is always a solid character in every incarnation he is in except maybe Alpha 3 and Mahvel. I also dont see how Cammy is anything like Vega.

I'd personally like to of seen the frames of animation carried over from SFIII to SFIV.

From what i seen and heard Ken plays similar to his 3rd Strike incarnation. Pretty sure i seen the standing.mp > standing.hp target combo used before...somewhere...pretty sure it links to super as well like 3S.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't play tournaments but in my experience, the best Cammy players I meet fight like the best Vega fighters using speed and rolls to keep the opponent guessing before pulling off a throw or special. I can only imagine what a top tier would look like.

Guile is another where I haven't seen a real good player in years. Even the computer still tries to play him with his old Sonic Boom/Flask Kick trap. I just haven't seen anything interesting out of him in years.

As for "turtling" in SFIII, I find the characters move sets have been altered for a more aggressive style of play. I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense. Granted, I don't feel its perfect either...

[Lionx]

Cammy is actually rated one of the lower ranked characters in Super Turbo, and just 'alright' in Alpha 3. I can agree that if Cammy starts her pressure its really crazy, but she has to start it first getting around a ton of 'walls'... Shes a beast in CvS2 though, parry then punch into free super. Mad good pokes all around.

Playing a good Guile might not seem that hard but against anyone good it actually can be very hard to mantain that trap. Its hard to say, but its really fun to choose Championship Edition Guile for me in SF Anniversary and zone all day with him. Thats what the oldschool SF was all about so he was very top tier in the older games. If you ever get SFIV for PC(or get GGPO..) i would be glad to play you with Guile. He still only has those two special moves for a reason...he is too good otherwise.

As for "turtling" in SFIII, I find the characters move sets have been altered for a more aggressive style of play. I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense. Granted, I don't feel its perfect either...

I dont consider anything 'cheap' unless it breaks the game, Parry doesnt break the game but it does dumb it down imo. Even if your style is more aggressive, if i see it coming i can just parry it. Fireballs? They're useless just parry it not to mention the huge delay they have in that game. It dumbs down the game to who has the best pokes, what they can do after it, and who can mix up the best. Movesets dont matter if you got such a strong universal defense system.

This means i have to go into you and start fighting instead of being offensive with fireballs forcing people to just poke with long ranged moves(mostly crouching medium kicks because they link into supers). You think Parry will make people more 'offensive' but its not, if anything it means you can turtle MORE. It also dumbs down strategies like zoning. In old games position was so important, not so in SFIII. Like...

Fireballs being useless. It means i cant do mind games with them because they arent a threat. In older games if the opponent conditions you to jump over fireballs they get rewarded by thinking ahead of the opponent because they expected you to jump over and uppercut you. Now that doesnt work in this game because you can just cover your mistake by pressing a tap of your joystick. Its why Remy is trash in the game, Guile-like characters need their sonic booms to zone, parry removes fireballs/zoning and the only thing you do then is play footsies(in simple terms, exchanging pokes).

In older games you have to uppercut or do something to break out of the corner at the right time, if you screw up you get punched landing the uppercut. In SFIII you just tap down + an attack(prob medium kick then cancel super lolz...) and get a low risk defense. Or tap forward and buffer in an uppercut motion, and pressing punch only when you get the parry. Its not no risk but its VERY low risk imo and nothing you can react to unlike an uppercut. Accidental parries are also P Groove is better because the window to parry is tighter and you usually have to parry because you wanna.

Also if you fire a fireball and they parry it, you get no meter! But you get insane ammounts of meter when i whiff a medium attack(which i offen do). Thank god they fixed that in CvS2...it means people would turtle all the time just to get meter or spend 20 seconds building meter. My mind just screams 'why are you punishing someone who is doing an offensive action and rewarding someone for spamming?"

YouTube - [SF3 2I match] ��り� (Sean) VS �� (Sean) < wtf

Homogenization imo, with Universal Overheads and everyone getting Parries along with Throws being ticked(taking no damage for you trying to counter a throw). I am also aware you cant possibly parry everything in the game, but playing this game for a year or so and watching some people play, my opinion became what it is now. Besides EVO tournament's top 8 were all Chun-Li's except for one Akuma...it gets old seeing her do insane damage off a late cancel-ed medium kick. Best part is when a good well known player tells me the best thing to do when in trouble is to tap down because probability of someone doing a low attack is higher, and it can also parry many things you dont think it can like uppercuts..>_>



Thats not to say SFIII is horrible though, it is very popular worldwide especially after the Daigo Video. It does allow for more major comebacks, and introduced Dashing, Target Combos, and EX moves which i think are great additions. Alex, Makoto, Ibuki, Yun/Yang, and Dudley were great characters. It was just too different for me because of these things they introduced. But it just might be right for some other people who are more poke oriented and like games like Tekken. For me it was very different than how SF was played and it didnt feel the same.

I apologize for the wall of text...i have a strong opinion of the game and if i sounded rude i am sorry I think Capcom was bold to release SFIII with what they did if anything, i just dont think it worked out well or think SFIV is a step back from it. If anything SFIV is taking everything they learned with all previous SF, then making it into a more balanced and fun package.

[JKTrix]

If anyone else completely understood what LionX just said, we need to be friends.

I know parry can be cheap but unlike SC's parry system, I feel SFIII's can be used against an opponent as well. Its not just infinite defense.

Just to defend SC a bit, Guard Impacting is not cheap/infinite defense either. You do have an advantage after performing it, though the person on the receiving end is not defenseless and can retaliate with their own parry (and makes its own little rock-paper-scissors gameplay). Which may be what you're referring to, since SF3's parrying will essentially give you a free attack where SC still gives you a chance to defend yourself.

DOA's was cheap though. You could have a reversal attempt after every individual hit in a combo string as long as your feet were on the ground. You are punished by taking increased damage if you guess wrong, but if you get good enough to exploit it fully it is really cheap