Are the first two Bond films better than the last two?

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

You probably don't understand that though.

You can drop remarks like that.

I wasn't talking to you anyway who are you his mother?

[Levian]

If you didn't know, Cid's Knights are moderators.

There's rules on this forum and they apply to you too.

[Big D]

Quantum of Solace is, as others have said, a direction continuation of Casino Royale. It's brutal, rough, and unrelenting; far more believable than the cheesy corniness of most of the earlier Bond films.

From Russia With Love is, in my mind, one of the better Bonds. Brilliant Cold War suspense, plenty of intrigue, a fair amount of action. Yet still firmy rooted in the Cold War mythos and very much a product of 1960s film production values. It is perhaps more engaging than Quantum of Solace, though that depends a lot on exactly what any given viewer is looking for in a film. I think it's fair to say that QoS suffers slightly from what we can call "middle of a trilogy syndrome", whereby the story neither truly begins nor truly ends. It began in the previous film and will continue in the next; there's not the same level of closure of completeness that you get in a strictly stand-alone movie.

But if you want a Bond who's believable as an ex-military, secret service agent combating believable and plausible opponents, then the new Bond films are right on all counts. No 'novelty villains' with ludicrous super-weapons or freak-show henchmen. Sure, they offer a different approach and a different perspective, and this won't agree with everyone. But if people just want to watch the same old formula again, they've got 20 films from across 40 years to fall back on.

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

If you didn't know, Cid's Knights are moderators.

There's rules on this forum and they apply to you too.

Pffft it's not my fault he doesn't know what inconsecutive means and I didn't like having to explain myself that's why I got a little irritable.

Also I'm quite the potty mouth so there was a lot worse things I could've wrote than "You probaby wouldn't understand that."

[The Man]

Just drop it, dude. You're not going to win anyone's favour by carrying on an off-topic argument with a moderator.

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

Just drop it, dude. You're not going to win anyone's favour by carrying on an off-topic argument with a moderator.

Yes sir.

Anyway have you seen Quantum of Solace? I heard it sucks because Marc Forster (the new director) couldn't surpass what Martin Campbell did in Casino Royale.

[The Man]

I still haven't seen it. Casino Royale would be a difficult picture to top but I'm told there's a lot of political commentary that's likely to appeal to me in QoS, so I'm looking forward to seeing it at some point. I honestly haven't seen that many of the old films either, so I haven't bothered voting.

[The Fat Bioware Nerd]

I still haven't seen it. Casino Royale would be a difficult picture to top but I'm told there's a lot of political commentary that's likely to appeal to me in QoS, so I'm looking forward to seeing it at some point. I honestly haven't seen that many of the old films either, so I haven't bothered voting.

I think you should pick up the single disc versions of Dr No, From Russia with Love and Thunderball. I don't know about you but I think those Bond films I mentioned are surprisingly good considering they were shot in the early to mid sixties. And they're only ten bucks each at Amazon.

[The Man]

I've already bought too many films lately, so I'll probably just give those films a rental when I have time to see them. QoS is definitely my top priority though, although from what I've heard I also need to re-watch Casino Royale since QoS apparently picks up right where CR left off.

[Big D]

I still haven't seen it. Casino Royale would be a difficult picture to top but I'm told there's a lot of political commentary that's likely to appeal to me in QoS, so I'm looking forward to seeing it at some point. I honestly haven't seen that many of the old films either, so I haven't bothered voting.

QoS shouldn't be dismissed sight unseen, in my opinion. As you say, the political commentary's interesting enough, and the characters are really quite unique for a Bond flick. MI6 isn't an all-knowing, omnipotent government entity; the CIA isn't everybody's bestest buddy; allegiances are often fragile and often matters of convenience. In none of the older Bond films would you ever hear M say something like "I don't give a about the CIA and their trumped-up charges!", one of her most badassed comments to date. QoS sees governments, agents, corporations and individuals competing for their individual self-interest; there are no saintly civil servants giving their all for "the greater good".

[Wolf Kanno]

I love you Big D for understanding why QoS was a damn fine flick. I like the fact that the new Bond is bringing back the more political side of Bond. The films never completely recovered from having the Cold War fizzle out. I feel the new films and especially QoS to be bringing the series back closer to its more realistic roots. To be honest, (SPOILER)Solace is basically being presented as a modern day Spectre .

What always drew me to the Bond films was more of the political intrigue. The wacky villains were amusing but sometimes I felt it was overemphasized and the overall political commentary was lost or the cleverness of the plot would get diluted at times. The new Bond films are bringing back that gritty reality to it. As Big D pointed out, it was refreshing to see MI6 and other political powers presented more in a gray area like the early films.

[The Turk]

Since people are saying what their favourite Bond films are I'll start by saying that mine is The Spy Who Loved Me. It perfects the Bond formula. Good Bond girl (though with questionable acting talents), legendary henchmen (Jaws!), iconic Bond car (The Lotus Esprit sub is probably 2nd only to Goldfinger's Aston Martin as the best Bond car.) Sexy Femme Fatale and so many memorable moments such as the Lotus Esprit chase, the fight with Sandor on the roof where Moore in one of his most brutal moments kills him by hitting his own tie away and then there is the jaw-dropping ski jump off the cliff into the Union Jack parachute. Oh and Nobody Does It Better is the best Bond song. The only bad thing about TSWLM is the weak villain.

Someone said they hated OHMSS! That's one of the very best! Lol, it's probably the most loved Bond film and at the same time the most hated Bond film, well Die Another Day has probaby stolen the 'Most Hated Bond Film' title.

Anyway QoS was a good film. I'm not sure where it would sit in my top Bond film list, but around 12th I reckon, somewhere near (but just below) Dr. No. My only problem with QoS is that I miss the classic formula in the Bond films. Yes after the overblown DAD something had to change, but did they really have to be this far removed from the usual 007 films? I am hoping that Bond 23 will be almost a back-to-basics film featuring the usual Bond trademarks.

So I like Dr. No a bit more than QoS so I guess this comes down to if I like Russia With Love more than Casino Royale. Now this is tough! I dunno why people would think FRWL is overrated. Red Grant is the best henchmen, Rosa Klebb one of the best villains and it possibly has the best plot of any of the films. I love FRWL, but Casino Royale is just incredible. It's my second favorite Bond film of them all. I even like the theme tune too now!

So imo CR > FRWL > DN > QoS. Hmm, I am going to call this a tie.

[Dreddz]

The problem with the last two Bond films is that they can't seem to have any fun with themselves. Bond is now a mopey sod who is just depressing to watch. Bond used to be a slick, charasmatic guy who could still be funny even in the most dire of situations. Maybe some people didn't like that but I don't think Bond was ever a super serious franchise.

Plus in the last two Bond films, especially QOS they seemed to favour shooting the film in the same style as the Bourne films with the infamous shakey cam technique. Lack of gadgets pulled the series even further away from what it previously was and the film didn't have the identity that previous Bond films had. Even while watching the Brosnan films you could tell there was something unique about the Bond franchise. Now they just seem to be by the book action films which are admittedly well made for what they are but are all too similar to every other action film out there.

[The Turk]

With your first point I think you might be right, but I think there is a lot of fun in Casino Royale. Yes there aren't any of the cringe-inducing quips that Moore and Brosnan loved but there is a lot of humour left- the exchanges between Bond and Lynd come to mind with the "that' because you know what my little finger can do" being a highlight.

You're right about QoS being rather dour, but it had to be really after the tragic end to CR. Watch the end of OHMSS and then watch the following film Diamonds Are Forever and you'll be furious at DAF. Rather than be out for revenge against Blofeld, Bond just doesn't seem to care about what he did to his wife in OHMSS. QoS is really the film DAF should have been.

Also this isn't the first time we've had more serious films in the Bond series. Licence to Kill also didn't have much fun in there, but I for one loved that movie.

I do agree that there is a lack of Bond-ness that hurt the last two, QoS especially, but I think they had to be like that and I like he way we've seen Bond evolve into 007. Now we've seen that happen however I want to see the next Craig film to feature the gadgets, the unstoppable henchmen and eccentric bad guy in his lair. Sadly I don't think the next one will be like that.

[The Man]

I always liked the shaky cam technique. It contributes to a sense of confusion which, in the midst of a spy flick, is highly justifiable.