Are the first two Bond films better than the last two?

[eestlinc]

QoS went a little over the top with the shaky camera, but otherwise I thought it was a good movie. The opera scene is awesome. Daniel Craig is great as Bond.

[Madame Adequate]

I like Dr No and From Russia With Love more than I like The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day. Whilst Pierce was a great Bond, only Goldeneye was a really good Bond movie with him in the role. There's only so much the actor can do.

I eagerly await the 21st Bond movie.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think what ultimately changes one's view of this is whether you loved or hated Roger Moore's portrayal of Bond. Personally I don't care for the "gentleman spy". Roger Started off great but I felt the quality of his films got worse with each new installment and the plots hinged more on the now "Iconic" eccentric super villains, death traps, and themed henchmen. Towards the end, I felt he made Bond more of a cheesy lampoon of itself rather than being the intelligent Cold War spy films of the earlier era. Granted, he built on what was established in Sean's film but I felt the writers took it too far during Roger's turn. What was really sad was that A View to a Kill was a pretty decent film but by then, Roger was obviously too old to be playing Bond, so I felt it suffered because of that.

Timothy could have been a decent Bond if he was likable, he lacked any of the charm of the previous Bonds and always seemed angry or at least looked like he was constipated in most of his films. He tried to bring Bond back his edge from the first films but sacrificed the charm and grace to do so.

Pierce was a great Bond at first, Goldeneye was a fantastic film imo, and brought back a Bond not seen since the first films. Tomorrow Never Dies was a clever film as well; even if it walked a bit of the thin line of being unbelievable. I felt his last two films were quite terrible if only cause Bond seemed written out of character (just like OHMSS) and the entire plot of Die Another Day was just cheesy and terrible, taking the worst qualities of the Moore era Bond films and pushing it to the extreme.

I have not seen the new Casino Royale but I did see Quantum of Solace and felt that Craig did an exdellent job as Bond. The film was funny but in a very black humor way and I felt Craig brought back the reality of Bond being a professional assassin for the British government yet still being a charming womanizer. He still holds the great chemistry with the new M that Pierce had with her. I felt he is doing a great job and I am quite happy with a return to true political intrigue instead of eccentric billionaires with too much time on their hands so they build a lab on a deserted island and hire a private army.

I felt the Bond films were great in the past cause they used the backdrop of history to help tell the story and create greater tension. One of my favorite films was You Only Live Twice, which presented both the Russians and Americans as the showboating pricks they were during the 60's. The whole plot hinged on taking advantage of the political turmoil of the time. Yes they had their eccentric villains but they never overshadowed the idea of the political tension that created the true suspense of those films.

[The Turk]

You didn't think YOLT was at all cheesy and silly Wolf Kanno? Yes nothing tops Moore's Tarzan yell in Octopussy, but YOLT has it's moments- Bond becoming Japanese being one of the stupidest moments in the series. What about the hallowed-out volcano! Okay it's an awesome lair, but still a bit preposterous like the Moore films you didn't like.


Also I don't think the Moore films got worse as they went along, but they go- Good film, bad film, good film, bad film etc.

Live and Let Die- Good albeit silly film.
TMWTGG- It is very memorable but so stupid.
TSWLM- One of the very best.
Moonraker- Fun but again stupid. That double taking pigeon is unforgivable.
For Your Eyes Only- Some call it too serious and label it as dull and forgettable, but I think it's a gripping spy thriller.
Octopussy- No, no, NO! Tarzan yell, Bond dressed as a gorilla, Bond dressed as a clown, bond in the alligator submarine... wtf is going on here?!
A View To A Kill- Okay this isn't much better. Great theme tune however.

I am one of the few people that seem to like The World Is Not Enough. It's nowhere near as bad as everyone says. Electra King is one of the most fascinating of all of 007's foes, the plot is complex and is one of those rare Bond's where both James and M become emotionally involved in the story which I liked. Also the opening boat chase is incredible. I think it's very underrated. Not as good as his first two, but a different class to the likes of Die Another Day, Diamonds Are Forever and Octopussy. Okay Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist was bad, but Christmas Jones is not the worst Bond girl ever, that dubious honour would have to go to either Tanya Roberts' Stacy Sutton from AVTAK or Halle Berry's Jinx.

Speaking of underrated the Dalton films are great! I can see your point on Dalton not being too likeable, but you could argue that no other actor has come closer to Ian Fleming's 007 as well as Timothy did. Yes in LTK he isn't too likeable, but I felt he had a lot of charisma in The Living Daylights. Also the stunt-work in these two, TLD especially is phenomenal. I think people just weren't ready for this kind of Bond film until Daniel Craig took over.

[Wolf Kanno]

You didn't think YOLT was at all cheesy and silly Wolf Kanno? Yes nothing tops Moore's Tarzan yell in Octopussy, but YOLT has it's moments- Bond becoming Japanese being one of the stupidest moments in the series. What about the hallowed-out volcano! Okay it's an awesome lair, but still a bit preposterous like the Moore films you didn't like.

I said the cheesy villains and lair started in the Connery films but what separates YOLT from some of the Moore films was that despite the super lair; the premise was about starting a confrontation between Russia and America, and a criminal organization making profits off the war efforts.

Being made in the height of the Cold War, its cheese factor is outweighed by the suspense of bringing in a real threat that people faced in those days. It worked with the political chaos of the times to tell a gripping story about Cold War politics. Moore's had an asshole with too much time on their hands, even when the Russians were involved they tended to be far more in the background and half the time were just mentioned being involved. They also lacked the political commentary of the earlier films.

The more serious political commentary of the early films made it possible to look past the hallowed out volcano lair, or Odd Job, or Dr. No's "dragon". Like the MGS series, I feel if the main premise is strong and the commentary and symbolism is strong, an audience can swallow the more cheesy and unbelievable aspects of the films and see them for what they were. I felt many of Moore's films lacked this.

Also I don't think the Moore films got worse as they went along, but they go- Good film, bad film, good film, bad film etc.

This is just my opinion so don't take it to heart. My main issue was the lack of Cold War politics and the fact that Moore always seemed like a "hands off Bond" who was more interest in romance than kicking ass. Despite that, he's still more likable than Dalton.

Live and Let Die- A good film and probably my favorite of Moore's films.
TMWTGG- I love the premise but it did have too many silly factors. Still Christopher Reeve is a fave actor of mine.
TSWLM- My other favorite Moore film. One of the few films where Moore actually kicks some ass
Moonraker- Its TSWLM without the charm and it takes place in space instead of the ocean... terrible film.
For Your Eyes Only- I'm having a hard time remembering this one but if memory serves me correct, this is the first film I started to feel Moore was too old for it cause I believe this is the one with the embarrassing scene where he's got the 15 year old trying to seduce him when its obvious by comparing the two that Moore could pass as her grandfather.
Octopussy- I agree, this film is terrible...
A View To A Kill- I like the villain and the premise but the Bond girl has no real reason to be there and Roger is way too old to be doing any of the stunts outside of walking and breathing. It was nice to have the lead from the Avengers in there though.

I am one of the few people that seem to like The World Is Not Enough. It's nowhere near as bad as everyone says. Electra King is one of the most fascinating of all of 007's foes, the plot is complex and is one of those rare Bond's where both James and M become emotionally involved in the story which I liked. Also the opening boat chase is incredible. I think it's very underrated. Not as good as his first two, but a different class to the likes of Die Another Day, Diamonds Are Forever and Octopussy. Okay Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist was bad, but Christmas Jones is not the worst Bond girl ever, that dubious honour would have to go to either Tanya Roberts' Stacy Sutton from AVTAK or Halle Berry's Jinx.

I rank Christmas up there as one of the worse if only cause she was completely unable to be a convincing nuclear physicist. She was a bimbo brought in so guys can ogle over her massive DD's.

I actually disliked seeing Bond get emotionally involved and felt it was a very un-Bond thing to do. He has used woman constantly and this poor girl somehow speaks out to his nurturing side? I just couldn't swallow that, and the other MI6 agent falling for her as well seemed even more unlikely. There was just too many unrealistic factors in the film that kept me from buying it. Not to mention they kill off my Russian dude from Golden Eye... It is still a better film than Die Another Day.

Speaking of underrated the Dalton films are great! I can see your point on Dalton not being too likeable, but you could argue that no other actor has come closer to Ian Fleming's 007 as well as Timothy did. Yes in LTK he isn't too likeable, but I felt he had a lot of charisma in The Living Daylights. Also the stunt-work in these two, TLD especially is phenomenal. I think people just weren't ready for this kind of Bond film until Daniel Craig took over.

I just could not get into LTK, it didn't feel like a real Bond film, it felt like a bad fan-fiction where a pissy James Bond went up against Scarface. Living Day Lights was a good flick but once again, I felt Dalton's performance made it a weaker film than it should have been. I also disagree that Dalton was the closest to Ian Flemming's vision of Bond. Hell even the actress' hated working with him cause he basically played himself in those films.