FFX's Antagonist

[Forsaken Lover]

Thoughts on this?

EDIT: ugh. Obviously I meant Tidus in option one. Sorry.

[Jessweeee♪]

Eh, Seymour didn't really have enough of a connection to Tidus. Maybe if Yuna or Jecht were the hero. If it wasn't Jecht, I'd definitely wanna see him go against Shuyin.

[Wolf Kanno]

Jecht is technically Sin... So I feel it still works since Tidus' spent most of X trying to defeat Sin.

These two have more of a connection really, that's why I feel he was chosen. Besides, Seymour is a lame villain and the Villains had enough mage characters.

Technically, Cecil should be fighting Zemus/Zeromus but Golbez was chosen instead because of their antagonistic relationship.

[Skyblade]

Jecht is technically Sin... So I feel it still works since Tidus' spent most of X trying to defeat Sin.

These two have more of a connection really, that's why I feel he was chosen. Besides, Seymour is a lame villain and the Villains had enough mage characters.

Technically, Cecil should be fighting Zemus/Zeromus but Golbez was chosen instead because of their antagonistic relationship.

It's not just about who's the last villain. Yu-Yevon would be the last villain of X, but no one would want to play as him. They chose heroes and villains who had both connections, and actual personality. Which is why Seymour is never even considered.

And Jecht would've made a better choice than Shuyin, definitely. For one thing, we don't need two characters who fight the same way. Also, after 1000 years as a phantasm, Shuyin had sort of lost most of the personality he may originally had, and had replaced it all with simple hatred for everything, while Jecht, though he had become a psychotic killing machine, still had a lot of his feelings left.

[Roogle]

In my opinion, Seymour would have been a better choice for Dissidia Final Fantasy if Yuna was chosen as the hero for Final Fantasy X.

[Wolf Kanno]

But FFX is "My Story..." says Tidus.

I would never even consider Shuyin since he is one of the lamest villains in the series. It would be like asking why Cloud isn't fighting Genesis since he's another big villain in FFVII.

Yet, not all the heroes face people they have true antagonistic relations with. Tbh, the Onion Knight should be facing Xande since CoD doesn't even appear until he's dead. From a story perspective though, its a better match up since the Warriors of Light came to be in order to stop CoD. Tidus' major conflict in X was battling his father who had become Sin and lets face it, their relationship is truly antagonistic towards each other. I feel it works in the same way that Cecil and WoL don't square off with their exact final bosses. They chose the villains that had the most significance to the heroes. Seymour was just a nusance to Tidus, he's more of a villian to Yuna, Rikku, and Kimarhi. Besides, we don't need another mage on the Chaos side, even if he is a zombie mage

[Skyblade]

But FFX is "My Story..." says Tidus.

I would never even consider Shuyin Seymour since he is one of the lamest villains in the series. It would be like asking why Cloud isn't fighting Genesis since he's another big villain in FFVII.

Fixed.

Yet, not all the heroes face people they have true antagonistic relations with. Tbh, the Onion Knight should be facing Xande since CoD doesn't even appear until he's dead. From a story perspective though, its a better match up since the Warriors of Light came to be in order to stop CoD. Tidus' major conflict in X was battling his father who had become Sin and lets face it, their relationship is truly antagonistic towards each other. I feel it works in the same way that Cecil and WoL don't square off with their exact final bosses. They chose the villains that had the most significance to the heroes. Seymour was just a nusance to Tidus, he's more of a villian to Yuna, Rikku, and Kimarhi. Besides, we don't need another mage on the Chaos side, even if he is a zombie mage

I am actually really looking forward to seeing Jecht in this, for precisely these reasons. Tidus and Jecht have a great antagonistic relationship, while still having the father/son affection. It should make for a good story.

Especially compared to the guy with stupid hair and no personality.

[Unstoppable Pig]

Besides story, I think some of the characters were chosen to bring variety to fighters. Cloud of Darkness was possibly chosen because lack of female characters or at least it helped her being in the game.

Good fighting games one of important aspect is that its characters are each unique. Story wise and gameplay wise I think Jecht was perfect choiche. Tidus was terrible choiche but thats because I don´t like the character.

[Forsaken Lover]

And Jecht would've made a better choice than Shuyin, definitely. For one thing, we don't need two characters who fight the same way. Also, after 1000 years as a phantasm, Shuyin had sort of lost most of the personality he may originally had, and had replaced it all with simple hatred for everything, while Jecht, though he had become a psychotic killing machine, still had a lot of his feelings left.

Simple psychotic killing machine? Tha tonly describes 95% of FF's villains...and they don't have actual reasons for it like Shuyin does. They just want to take over and/or destroy the world
(("OF COURSE!"))

And I dunno. I guess you can just forget X's ending where Tidus and Jecht share a tearful reunion and then Tidus giving his father a happy friendly handslap as he leaves for the Farplane. just forget that and say they don't like each other and have them fight. Makes sense.....

[Skyblade]

And Jecht would've made a better choice than Shuyin, definitely. For one thing, we don't need two characters who fight the same way. Also, after 1000 years as a phantasm, Shuyin had sort of lost most of the personality he may originally had, and had replaced it all with simple hatred for everything, while Jecht, though he had become a psychotic killing machine, still had a lot of his feelings left.

Simple psychotic killing machine? That only describes 95% of FF's villains...and they don't have actual reasons for it like Shuyin does. They just want to take over and/or destroy the world
(("OF COURSE!"))

And I dunno. I guess you can just forget X's ending where Tidus and Jecht share a tearful reunion and then Tidus giving his father a happy friendly handslap as he leaves for the Farplane. just forget that and say they don't like each other and have them fight. Makes sense.....

I didn't use the word "simple" to describe Jecht, I used it to describe Shuyin. Jecht still had emotions. He still cared for Spira...and his son.

Shuyin was the simple one. He had no real motivation, no personality, no character. I don't blame him for that. He was a shade, an empty husk of rage and hatred that had degraded into mindlessness over the course of a thousand years. But it makes him rather boring if you want any character development. And it still doesn't address the issue of having two characters with the exact same moveset.

Oh, and your last paragraph is correct if you think of things that simple. Hero on one side, villain on the other, and they fight. But there is a lot of character development in this game, even though it is a fighting game, and Jecht's character is not just that of a simple villain. Even though he counts as a fighter for Chaos, his feelings for Tidus still shine through, and are integral to the story of Tidus's section of the game. Kefka even claims he is a fighter for Cosmos at one point. That is why Jecht is the perfect villain from this game. He has a close relationship with Tidus. And the relationship is antagonistic. Tidus has hated Jecht for years. But they still love each other and that still shows. It's a great relationship that is being brought out perfectly in Dissidia.

I liked X-2, but Jecht is the best choice of villain from either game given the way Dissidia is being written and designed.

[Forsaken Lover]

Shuyin's motivation was the world is disgusting and needed to be cleansed. With the world gone he too would cease to be. So his motive was he hated everything and his objective was annihilation of everything, including himself.
And you don't need a personality to be iN Dissidia. Jus tlook at Cloud of daDarkness. And Shuyin had worlds of personality compared to the pre-S Generation FF villains who were generally cardobard cutout cliches with no motivation beyond I R EVIL".

As for character development...did Ultimecia grow in Dissidia or something? Does she start out one way and end up another

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm with Skyblade in that I feel Shuyin is a pretty two dimensional villain and I object to villains from the early titles being referred to as simple "I r evil" types as they generally have more depth than the heroes they face.

There is a bit of character development in Dissidia, most of the heroes face issues very close to their normal stories except without some of the plot revelations. Cecil, WoL, and OK being the only major exceptions. Ultemacia seems to play a larger role than I would have thought, but Jecht definetly has more to do than someone like Shuyin or Seymour could have brought to the story.

There actually is a bit of plot and to be honest, the villains are as usual; more interesting than the heroes cause they have more interesting group dynamics than the heroes. I think characters like Xande, Zeromus, and Seymour are dropped because their stories are very rooted in their own worlds and most don't have the real connection to their games main characters as people would think.

[Forsaken Lover]

Well perhaps I missed Kefka's and Ex-Death's' amazing depth then. What was their motivation? Insane and just plain evil? Astounding.

Of course shallowness is not just in the older games. That's my bad. Ultimecia was a paper thin villain who's best motivation, never directly stated but just inferred from her dialogue throughoug the game, is that she hates SeeDs and persecution of sorceresses.

I think characters like Xande, Zeromus, and Seymour are dropped because their stories are very rooted in their own worlds and most don't have the real connection to their games main characters as people would think.

That could easily describe Shuyin as well.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well perhaps I missed Kefka's and Ex-Death's' amazing depth then. What was their motivation? Insane and just plain evil? Astounding.

Of course shallowness is not just in the older games. That's my bad. Ultimecia was a paper thin villain who's best motivation, never directly stated but just inferred from her dialogue throughoug the game, is that she hates SeeDs and persecution of sorceresses.

Ex-Death is a reflection of the sins of mankind. a by product of their hate and destructive nature, Kefka represents the true evil of humanity, a misanthropic, Nihilistic, sociopath. Kefka in particular goes through a bit of a psychological change in the story as goes from top thug to semi-omnipotent god. You could easily say they are just "Evil" but when you look at their story as a whole they have stronger meaning to themselves. Ultemacia could almost be thrown in this category herself (someone fighting against fate). Course I feel later villains also have this problem of either being accepted at face value or looking past it to a bit of deep nature. I personally feel most villains associated with X to be shallow and cliche but that is just my interpretation.

I think characters like Xande, Zeromus, and Seymour are dropped because their stories are very rooted in their own worlds and most don't have the real connection to their games main characters as people would think.

That could easily describe Shuyin as well.

Despite this, Shuyin is an awful choice cause Tidus is the main character of X and Shuyin is a villain he never meets to begin with. So it seems rather silly to have them face each other. It would be like Cloud facing Genesis or the head of the original AVALANCHE from BC as his villains.

Jecht was the best choice considering how much of Tidus' narrative revolves around his relationship with him. He doesn't even know Shuyin and Tidus is the main hero of X. If they make a sequel with the sequel/compilation stuff being thrown in, then Shuyin can face off with Gunner Yuna.

[Forsaken Lover]

Ex-Death is a reflection of the sins of mankind. a by product of their hate and destructive nature, Kefka represents the true evil of humanity, a misanthropic, Nihilistic, sociopath. Kefka in particular goes through a bit of a psychological change in the story as goes from top thug to semi-omnipotent god. You could easily say they are just "Evil" but when you look at their story as a whole they have stronger meaning to themselves. Ultemacia could almost be thrown in this category herself (someone fighting against fate). Course I feel later villains also have this problem of either being accepted at face value or looking past it to a bit of deep nature. I personally feel most villains associated with X to be shallow and cliche but that is just my interpretation.

Well this is an old argument among fans of characters. I think of them as plain cliche evil and you think of them as deeper meanings. I say you'r eover-analzing to make them appear deep while you might say I'm over-generalizing to make them appear shallow.
I have nothing against Kefka or Ex Death but I view them as incredibly one-dimensional characters. Do you honestly think either of them have the depth of later FF antagonists?
Now I realize you can have depth without being a sympathetic villain but Kuja, Seymour and Shuyin all were obviously made to be sympathetic. They perform heinous actions but all those actions are directly a result of their past and things outside of their control.
I feel that makes an antagonist far more "deep" than simply going crazy because of an experiment.

Jecht was the best choice considering how much of Tidus' narrative revolves around his relationship with him. He doesn't even know Shuyin and Tidus is the main hero of X. If they make a sequel with the sequel/compilation stuff being thrown in, then Shuyin can face off with Gunner Yuna.

We don't need any more pointless fanservice games.