HOLY CATACLYSM BATMAN!!!

[Wolf Kanno]

Haven't see this topic in awhile...

WARNING!!!! MAJOR SPOILERS!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!


Looking at the Ivalice timeline, there is an event that separates XII/TA2 with FT/VS and that is the Great Cataclysm. As we learn more about the nature of the world of Ivalice we keep coming up with new theories as to what this event in history is.

Was it a dimensional being breaking into this dimensional realm?

Did the Occurians mount a new offense to take back the planet after Vayne's Rebellion?

Was it the Lucavi finally taking advantage of the gods being forced off earth?

Could it have been just a natural disaster spurned on by magicks gone awry?

Could it have something to do with the Mist?

Or could it be something we haven't even thought of?

So what are your theories EoFF?

[Skyblade]

You might want to mark this as a spoiler thread.

(SPOILER)I personally think that the great cataclysm was hinted at in FFTA2. When you first encounter the Neuhkia, you get told by Lezaford that the opening of a Rift allows through tremendous power and usually great evils. He also says that no Rift has ever been fully opened, and even he does not know what would happen if it did. Ancient loremasters feared the Rifts and built tools to seal them away, including the Grimoire of the Rift carried by Luso.

My guess is the cataclysm was the full opening of a Rift. Specifically, the one connecting to the otherworld of the scions, or the Lucavi, as we know them in the FFT Ivalice. In FFTA2, we are told that the scions (the 13 espers of FFXII, including Ultima, Zalera, Hashmal, Cúchulainn, Adrammelech, and Belias, the Lucavi of FFT) exist in an otherworld, and that their power when summoned by pact in this world is but a shadow of their true strength. When the Rift opens, the Lucavi descend upon Ivalice, unleashing their true strength.

Or maybe not, who knows?

[Dignified Pauper]

XII and FFT aren't related to TA.

[Skyblade]

XII and FFT aren't related to TA.

FFTA formed the basis for XII's Ivalice, and if XII and FFT are related, it is highly likely that FFTA is too.

Then as well, TA2 is part of the Ivalice Alliance, so it definitely links to FFT and XII.

Further, you seem to be missing the point. If XII and FFT are linked, then something happened in between that drastically reshaped the world, as well as ridding it (or part of it) of the nonhuman races.

[Wolf Kanno]

Actually XII is the basis for FFTA, the staff was working on XII at the same time and chose to premier some of the races in FFTA. I don't believe TA is part of the real timeline (seeing as how many characters, beings, and people are different in this world as opposed to the other Ivalice worlds that have obvious historical links) but its obvious TA2 is seeing as how Vaan and a few others appear in the game.

If a Cid Knight or admin wants to add spoilers to the title so be it but I feel the time limit is up for most of these games. If you haven't played them now, you're probably not going to.

Back on topic...

So you feel its a combination of theories. A dimensional rift caused by or at least exploited by the Lucavi?

[Skyblade]

Luso also appears in FFT: War of the Lions.

Ok, I felt that only being a year old, FFTA2 info was still considered spoiler worthy.

Yes, I feel that's the best explanation for things at this point. The scions and the Lucavi are far too similar for it to be mere coincidence. In all likelihood, they are the same entity. Since they actually exist in FFT, they must have come from the otherworld to Ivalice at some point, and from that, the Rift is an obvious choice for their arrival. Seeing as we already see demons approaching from the rift (the Neuhkia), it makes sense that they could reach Ivalice through there as well, and given Lezaford's warning, the opening of the Rift could well have facilitated the Lucavi's travel to Ivalice as well as being the cause of the cataclysm.

How much of the change to Ivalice was the cataclysm, though, and how much was the war against the Lucavi? Mist seems gone from the world in FFT, though auracite remains. Was it all used up battling the Lucavi and whatever else came through, or was it wiped away by the opening of the Rift itself? And what happened to the other races?

I always forget that XII was in development for a year before FFTA's development started. They spent way too long on that game.

[Wolf Kanno]

The Mist may still remain, its mentioned that the region of FFT is split from the eastern side of the continent (Rozzaria and the Galtean Peninsula) by a Jagd. Which is a Mist filled area. I still hold to the theory that the Mist is also the Dark from Vagrant Story, seeing how they have similar properties (use for summoning, magic and special powers, even bringing the dead back to life.) Course VS takes place in Valendia (region where Archades Empire is located) and its briefly mentioned if memory serves me correct that cities utilize barriers to protect themselves from the normal amount of Dark that exists in the world.

I still wonder if the Occurians play a role though, seeing as they appear to have several satellites/cities in the sky that we saw when Lady Ashe met them in Giruvegan. I can't imagine that Vayne's Rebellion could beat them so soundly.

[Skyblade]

I doubt it is the Occurians. With the exception of FFXII, the only Ivalice game to even metion them is FFXII: RW, and it is just that, a mention. While there may be an Occurian left alive somwhere, I never got the impression that they were that numerous, or that they held a lot of real power (most of their power was acting through tools or agents). I think they are pretty much gone.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't know, seeing how the Occurians are credited with creating the Lucavi/Scions, I'd say they held more power than we think. I feel its still plausible. If they didn't create them they at least had the means to enslave them seeing how the act as guardians for all their sacred places.

[Skyblade]

That is an interesting point. In FFXII, the Espers seem to be creatures of Ivalice created by the Occurians, not creatures of the otherworld the way they are portrayed in FFTA2.

My guess is that the Espers were originally created by the Occurians, then banished to the otherworld after Ultima's rebellion. The Occurians then bound them in the summoning pacts. With the Occurian's fall, Ultima saw a chance to once again attempt to seize power over this world, and, when the Rift opened, she did, leading the Lucavi back to Ivalice and causing the cataclysm.

How Ultima fell after that (so that she had to be revived in FFT) is unknown, however.

[Dignified Pauper]

The games aren't related at all.

Firstly, FFXII takes place in the WORLD of Ivalice. In FFT, Ivalice is a country, and in FFTA - it's a world. Secondly, the world maps do not match in any of the games - nor do any of the places (sans FFTA and FFTA2)

Further, no FF's are related unless directly specified as sequels.

That said, the Lucavi in FFT were the direct bastardization of the twelve apostles of the bible, as well as St. Ajora being a Jesus-like figure. Having a counter to the entire faith in FFT is what made the story what it was and so effective, as well as the entire struggle between the political factions.

The Lucavi serve as nothing more.

[Wolf Kanno]

Taken from the XII Ultimania...

Map of Ivalice.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...alice-time.jpg


So yes, they are connected. XII takes place before FFT (about a 1000 years according to the Ultimania Timeline) and its located in the east. It's separated by a Jagd and the Kingdom Of Rozzaria. Vagrant Story begins in Valendia, which is the name of the region where the Archades Empire is located. Auracite, the stones used to summon the Espers, is the same named used for the Zodiac stones in FFT:WotL.

Ivalice, is being explored like the world of Suikoden, in that we only see part of the world with each new entry. Hell, FFTA2 takes place in Ordalia, which is the kingdom that fought the FFT Ivalice during the Fifty Years War. Yes, their are some discrepancies, but this is what happens when you start building on something 10 years after the original.


Skyblade: I agree, and this is why I feel their is a chance she was involved with the Great Cataclysm, though she may have fallen during the days of St. Ajora as well, seeing as St. Ajora used the Auracite and the tale of the Zodiac Braves to gain power among the masses. Perhaps Ultima is to blame for the "miracle" at Ajora's death.

[Skyblade]

Do we know the actual timeline change from FFXII to FFTA2? How much time passed, etcetera?

[Wolf Kanno]

No, I'm afraid. If I had to guess, its between five and ten years since Penelo and Vaan are quite older and more mature than they were in Revenant Wings. Yet it can't be too long, since Al-Cid is still the "International Man of Mystery". We know its been long enough for Vaan and Penelo to gain a reputation worldwide.

[Dignified Pauper]

this is bullocks. That image is photoshop and this is all fanfiction. None of this has ever been confirmed by Square and none of the games reference eachother except the obvious sequels.

FFXII is related to Revenant Wings
FFT is stand-alone
FFTA and FFTA2 are direct sequels.

The worlds all exist separately.