As a prominent member on my former boards once said: "Jesus frigging Buddha." Mitsuda is losing. :Eek:
Not certain what you mean. This discussion revolves around a question that has two legitimate answers, and because the only objective "facts" we can work with are statistical (i.e. the size of the composers' respective bodies of work) and have no business being the ultimate deciding factors, only the subjective remains. There exists no objective measuring bar for music, after all, by which Mitsuda might score "7 points " or Uematsu "5 stars". If one wanted to be as objective as possible about this whole discussion, in fact, I would expect such a person to completely limit his analysis to the mechanics -- chord progression, technical flawlessness of countermelodies, etc. -- and I would call him on every reference to how "enjoyable" he finds one piece of music or another, which would betray the objective intentions of his argument. Sure, you have made reference to the irrefutable fact that Uematsu's resumé dwarfs Mitsuda's in terms of size, but so, for example, does the resumé of Britney Spears (Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
). Until you use some subjective standard of your own to determine that Uematsu's compositions are both numerous and "good", all you have are the numbers, mate.
Just to be clear, I find it perfectly valid that you should use the argument that Uematsu has maintained a high quality of composition for, what, in excess of twenty years, but we should all receive that argument as precisely what it is: an individual perspective on an issue that has no objective resolution.
Mitsuda's music has the greater effect on me, and I prefer it to Uematsu's. That is pretty much the definitive statement of my reasons for casting my vote the way I did. Uematsu was given his shot, and though I love much of the man's work and listen to it regularly, he frankly did not have a photon's chance in a black hole of actually winning. I say this with the intention to belittle Uematsu as little as humanly possible, and elevate Mitsuda. I am willing to discuss other issues, such as the influence the two composers have had on their shared business, or the relative quantities of work they have produced, but they are frankly irrelevant to both my vote and how I justify it; I simply enjoy the discussion, and 'tis the only reason I am still here.
Huh . . . Methinks a bit of a misunderstanding is at work here. When I referenced the concept of "comparing the best works of each composer" to determine which one is "better", I meant that this comparison should take place at an individual level; I did not mean to suggest that we (as two individuals, or as a forum) could use that method to come up with an answer with which we would all agree. Such a method does not exist, as far as I am concerned. I simply suggest that the best way for anyone to determine their answer to this thread would be to compare what they perceive to be the best works of each composer. There must be variance amongst individual opinions; it is why there is not a single track from the Xenogears OST that would make my list of "Mitsuda's top twenty masterpieces", and why you are justified in using the whole damned soundtrack, if you wish.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Ohhh . . .Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I may just see where you are coming from now. When I first saw this thread ("who is the better composer?"), I immediately took it to mean "who, in your eyes, has produced the superior music?", to which my unequivocal answer was and is "Mitsuda". Your argument thus far seems to have taken a more literal approach to resemble something like: "who, in your eyes, is better in the business overall?", which could allow for other criteria. If so, then more power to you. Just know that you and I have used very different interpretations of the question to arrive at our answers, and neither of us is likely to agree on a methodology, let alone an actual opinion.
That is a bit on the bewildering side, too. As I say, there are few objective slants one can take on an issue like this, and as such, all I intended to accomplish was an expression of my opinion and explanation/defense thereof as warranted. "Debating" with the intent of changing the opinions of others could not have been further from my mind . . .Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Fine, but again, unless subjective standards come in at some point, our discussion is not going anywhere.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Beautiful. ^_^Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Pun received.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I had never considered it quite this way. As far as instrument quality goes, there is certainly a pre-existing evolution arc in place, and now that I think of it, certain Xenogears tracks do bear a sort of latent Chrono Cross aura, but the Chrono Trigger comparison is very much a new one on me. Most interesting . . . Just might have to try it.
Hear. Hear. :frust:Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Aye; there is wisdom in that.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Read, understood . . . obviously won’t be doing any agreeing or disagreeing.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Interesting. See, I only became aware of the video gaming world in general (including, for the most part, soundtracks) in recent years, so I really have missed the proverbial boat on many of the musical experiences that others (including, evidently, you) might regard as “revolutionary”. Indeed, even though I am not at all averse to collecting soundtracks that were created on synthesized instruments, the overwhelming majority of the music on my regular playlists is fully orchestral, simply because sound quality really does begin to matter when one is in the mood to surrender an indeterminate amount of time to simply listening. Even the Chrono Trigger soundtrack, while incomparable in-game, lacks the enormity of sound I prefer to accompany my moods, which is where remixers such as bLiNd, Right Stuff, and OCR’s Chrono Symphonic team are truly invaluable. ^_^ It is a shame that my interest in synthesized music has waned somewhat, but such was inevitable.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Nevertheless, even if it must be presented in synthesized form, I will most assuredly recognize good music when I hear it. And hell, if the FFVI soundtrack is as impressive as testimony indicates, I could certainly exercise my self-given right to make exceptions – “Birth of God” from the FFVII OST, for instance, is a fairly permanent fixture on my Ipod (basically the four gigabytes’-worth “cream” of the 15 gigs “crop”).
Eh, the details of that story are known only to Uematsu and Mitsuda; rather futile to theorize about the nature of a relationship when those involved will say no further.Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
*Nod* Surely someone has done a decent remix project for every Final Fantasy in existence, and probably several of the pending ones. <_< >_> Or are we talking about an officially released orchestral remake? The latter would be quite an event . . .Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Careful about the comforts you take, wizard. This is a man who can battle with a weapon in each hand.Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Oh, relax. This is not “heated” in the least. Merely three relatively intelligent people having a relatively intelligent discussion.Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Which is precisely the argument I assumed we were having. I assume that you and Wolf Kanno have purchased quarters on the same boat, and you have taken this discussion to include other criteria beyond the question of “whose music is better”?Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
How much ignorance am I putting on display if I admit to never having heard of either one?Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Is this an ambition you have taken to great lengths already? I.e. Are you a composer in some right, or is this one of your desires at present?Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Easy now. :laugh: This is not an expansion of the discussion that I am all that interested in making, but I will say that Bach was a god in his own right. The mesmerizing effects produced by his heavily layered minor-key organ toccatas and fugues, and the illusion of layers created by certain of his cello suites are quite remarkable. I am not very well equipped for a discussion of mechanical merits of his work, but he was certainly one of the most systematic and meticulous composers ever born, which explains some part of how he was able to produce such a staggering quantity of music in one insignificant little lifetime. He was capable of eliciting the full spectrum of murmurs, cries, and roars from the pipe organ (the lord of all this planet’s assembled instruments) with an unshakably deft hand.Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Well, you fail in the last regard, but the outcome was preordained.Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
Try as you might, the question of “quantity” is the only objective measure one can use here, and any measure of “quality” is subjective right down to its fickle heart. You are as dirty as the rest of us, and you might find it encouraging that no composer was ever “clean”.
Here’s hoping, mate. It would be nice if more people on this planet were not satisfied with insignificance.Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn
But as long as you are idolizing Uematsu, you might as well improve upon him. A decade or so into your prodigious career, if you ever get the urge to write your personal equivalent to Uematsu’s “Prelude” from the FFX soundtrack, resist.
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