Nobuo Uematsu VS Yasunori Mitsuda

[Wolf Kanno]

Not going to fly for me, mate. A collection of subjective opinions, no matter how large or brimming with experience and education, says nothing about whether your subjective opinion will come to the same conclusion. Critics are about the least objective source of information imaginable; they make their living articulating their opinions, but their words are no more than that, and even a thousand critics may be "wrong" in your view, if you should happen to disagree with them. I grant you, if an artist is critically acclaimed by the most reputable, intelligent sources, your chances of coming across said artist's work and enjoying it are improved, but it is no guarantee. Credit is seldom placed precisely where it is due, after all; genius may be universally panned by critics out of sheer controversy, and mediocrity may be praised simply because it comes from a particular artist. It is not a perfect system, and though critics have much more objective knowledge of music theory than your average fan, the essence your argument eventually boils down to is: "other people like it, so it is good", and that is a principle with which I will disagree with a flagrancy you have never witnessed.

My point is that I feel majority does count in terms of choosing an objective opinion. The fault of arguing from a subjective opinion is that there is no real way to have leeway for compromise. Our discussion being a case in point .

I feel its possible to have an objective opinion of a topic and a subjective opinion and both being different. Case in point: FFVI is my favorite FF game but were I asked to discern what I felt would be the best FF from an objective standpoint, I'd actually say IX as I feel it caters the best to the majority. Granted, a bit of my subjective opinion does come to play in my choice but due to having less of a bias than I would with VI; I am able to debate the finer points and allow myself to be persuaded or to persuade others.

By this example, I feel we could look at non-subjective criteria to discern an answer that can somewhat be agreed upon. In a discussion of subjectivity all we need say is who our fave is and move on as conversation is a moot gesture at this point.

If you already happen to agree with that sentiment, then sure. If the critics flock to something you truly loathe, their acclaim should not even make you flinch before you announce that you believe the music is awful.

I do believe that most of the truly exceptional composers of our species eventually receive the recognition they deserve, but it is oftentimes hard-won, and slow in manifesting. In the meantime, the initial critics are pretty much obligated to call "genius" and "drudgery" on anything the least bit controversial in a dizzying, discordant flurry until the mainstream audience acquires the music and settles the matter somewhat with their sales and downloads. It seems likely (I don't know for certain) that Uematsu has quite a solid critical reception. Objectively, a critic could remark that a particular piece of his music is "intricate". The moment he says it is "beautiful", however, we enter subjective territory, and critics must necessarily describe the personal feelings evoked by an album, so that the audience has some idea of whether they are interested in the genre -- *breathes deeply* -- making critical acclaim valuable, but ultimately as open to interpretation as the music itself. One must hear the music and make up one's own mind, and whatever is determined thereby is the best measure of quality possible. Subjective? Of course. If music were not so, then Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" would be no more potent than a symphony of car horns on an urban street.

I feel you've missed my intention on this one. You focus too much on the critics and not on the rest. I also mentioned FF fans... Most agree on Nobuo's talent but not many could agree on his best work. Most of his music is critically acclaimed but I feel the greater emphasis should have been on the fact that all his works have their own strong fanbases behind them. Once again, my point was simply to show that despite my own subjective opinion of Nobuo's work, an objective opinion would show some conviction to his talents.

My only other thing I wish to point out is that Mitsuda is not really an underdog as you would suggest. He is also critically acclaimed and well received by critics, peers, and fans. He is easily one of the top five game composers if not the top three. Hitoshi Sakimoto (composer for FFT, FFTA, FFXII, VS, BoFV, and all of the Ivalice titles) is more of an underdog than either of these two. He has some critical fame and his own fans, but not on the scale of either Nobuo or Mitsuda. This is why I felt it was a fair way to gleam some level of merit in an objective discussion.

I knew that either you or our resident White Wizard would do the research and say something like this. I simply summoned the name of the most popular, godawful artist I could think of at the time who seemed likely to have released more music than Mitsuda, but admittedly I was uncertain whether it was actually the case . . .

By who? Her fans and mainstream critics undoubtedly discuss her work to no end, simply because the tart is good business. I hope you do not mean to suggest that the perceived caliber of the critic has some bearing on the music, though?

I don't know where you have been latley but I don't remember Spears ever receiving anything remotely close to critical acclaim by critics or her peers. Even when they do, most say so in past tense. I'm sure she has fans who feel she's the greatest thing ever but her music would hardly stand the test of time like others.

I don't feel the critic has much bearing, it can be used as a guideline but personally I feel majority is also important for an objective discussion of such topics. At the end of the day, subjectivity wins out but you can't come to a compromise either.

Which is all fine and reasonable, but quite far removed from our biggest initial question of "who writes the best music". I have no doubt whatsoever that the opinions of some critics can be altered with currency (the music industry being the viciously polluted thing that it is), and anything passed down in wisdom from such potentially fickle hands must be taken with salt. It may be a contributor, but never a deciding factor.

Considering most self proclaimed "professional" critics would never lower themselves to critiquing a game soundtrack (too busy with that Miley Cyrus Greatest Hits album ) I really feel that we won't need to worry about critics being swayed through money. More of their own subjective opinion really. If I was to argue how they could be invalid, its only for listening to the music by itself instead of enjoying it for its purpose as an OST. If they have played the game, obviously subjectivity can sway their vote as well depending on how they felt about the game. Yet, I find a fairly good, level-headed reporting of the music. Its only when fans critique that I feel it should be taken with a lot of salt.

Not really, to my thinking. We are simply working with different variations of an exceedingly open-ended question. And to claim that only one possible interpretation of a question like this exists would be as ridiculous as . . .

. . . as claiming that Mistsuda is better than Nobuo, no questions asked.

Fixed it for you

Must be quite a restless position. When two gods take up arms and unleash melodic wrath on one another, there is bound to be some splash-back on the spectators. *_*

I find myself often debating about what I feel is absolute for my own terms so I'm quite used to the restlessness it causes. Look at the "Favorite RPG" Thread. I only listed a few of what I felt earned the top spot.

I have yet to be convinced that objective points alone are capable of settling this issue to any kind of satisfactory degree. Seems like we have reached an impasse of stubbornness.

Objectivity can never lead to truth, all it can do is settle the question until the next person asks it.

And . . . there are also some significant precursors to Xenosaga I in the Xenogears OST, notably "Gathering Stars in the Night Sky", compared to the opening of "Warmth". Both terribly affectionate pieces; I like it.

Quite true. You really can listen to his art grow and expand as you listen to his works back to back.

To say the least of it. ^_^ I am assuming Mitsuda addiction is not out of the question, and if so, I am most likely afflicted. Cannot smoke this substance, though; this stuff must be injected directly into the cerebrum.

Good stuff usually does.

*Nod* I hear you. Did you ever end up casting a vote, by the way?

No, I haven't. I would be lying to myself if I made a choice.

Very cool. ^_^ I will make a point of listening to your suggested tracks in the near future. Operating on a dial-up connection here, and I do not quite have the needed time to load them all up (taking my elder brother out for a meal in honor of his second completed decade of existence, if the details are of merit). Soon, though, no doubt.

I remember the days of dial up... No worries, I just hope I picked some good tracks that might pique your interest to listen to more.

You did not just debase "Auron's Theme", "Fight With Seymour", and "Servants of the Mountain".

Yes. Yes I did.

Oh, come on now. Composing something comparable to the genius of The Decisive Battle would be a dream come true!

. . . You know what, see you both in Tartarus.

I like Tartarus, it allows me to shoot myself in the head and release my inner demons