Cloud...

[Wolf Kanno]

The problem lies in that Cloud has already given up. He doesn't spend AC running around looking for a cure, he's not helping Tifa or any of the children. He's quietly locked himself away from everyone and moved into the symbol of his guilt and regret. He decides his death is "divine punishment" and spends his fleeting time brooding over his mistakes and ignoring all he has done. He's literally forced by others who confront him to take action and this is something that he wasn't like at the end of VII.

In AC, he's just given up, and the whole film is about him being pushed by everyone including his own psychological weakness of taking the blame for anything that goes wrong; and finally being put into a "happy place" where he feels better but he never once resolves his problems. Cloud never stops and thinks, "you know what? It really wasn't my fault. Aerith and Zack are probably laughing at me now for taking all the blame. I need to move on." He never confirms with anyone that he is finally over his guilt. I still imagine he'll be brooding over something else the next time we see him in a VII sequel. Its like he lives to be miserable and it really gets annoying.

[The Turk]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finnaly meet the real Cloud he goes from a slef doubting guy whimp into the natrual born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

[Jaffer]

The problem lies in that Cloud has already given up. He doesn't spend AC running around looking for a cure, he's not helping Tifa or any of the children. He's quietly locked himself away from everyone and moved into the symbol of his guilt and regret. He decides his death is "divine punishment" and spends his fleeting time brooding over his mistakes and ignoring all he has done. He's literally forced by others who confront him to take action and this is something that he wasn't like at the end of VII.

In AC, he's just given up, and the whole film is about him being pushed by everyone including his own psychological weakness of taking the blame for anything that goes wrong; and finally being put into a "happy place" where he feels better but he never once resolves his problems. Cloud never stops and thinks, "you know what? It really wasn't my fault. Aerith and Zack are probably laughing at me now for taking all the blame. I need to move on." He never confirms with anyone that he is finally over his guilt. I still imagine he'll be brooding over something else the next time we see him in a VII sequel. Its like he lives to be miserable and it really gets annoying.

Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Refering to himself.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finally meet the real Cloud he goes from a self doubting guy whimp into the natural born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

I interpreted it as Cloud as a whole since the original poster never implied this was exclusively about VII. Besides, I think most of us would have assumed Cloud made it with Tifa had the Compilation not come into being.

I agree to an extent. Cloud does have a few moments after he finds himself where he speaks pessimistically and doubts his own abilities and usually Tifa, Barret, or Cid have to knock him out of it.

Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Referring to himself.

I have issues with a movie that has to be remade to tell the story right, so I don't think highly of ACC as it sounds to me it was created to appease the major complaints of the original film.

This just goes against my ideas of writing and how I don't really believe in going back to a film and fixing the mistakes that were noticed from hindsight. Especially when the gap between the original and remake is very short. It just tells me SE knows they screwed up.

But once again, Cloud doesn't come to his own realization by himself. He has to get a pep talk from Vincent (who should really listen to his own advice since he's just as bad as Cloud) and even then Cloud really doesn't start to get back into his old groove until he's cured, which he basically interprets to mean he's "forgiven" which doesn't make sense since he never did anything wrong in the first place. His guilt is self-inflicted and has no basis in reality. He really thinks the two happiest people in the VII universe would hate him for events that happened outside of anyone's control? It doesn't make sense.

[Jaffer]

Yes AC Cloud actually was a terrible character. But that is not the same character in VII. It may be the same person, but like Reno in AC he's not the same character and this topic started off being about VII Cloud.

Cloud may have began VII as an ass, but he grows up a lot as a character once we finally meet the real Cloud he goes from a self doubting guy whimp into the natural born leader he always could be. Don't do what Square did when they made AC- forget all about his character's growth.

I interpreted it as Cloud as a whole since the original poster never implied this was exclusively about VII. Besides, I think most of us would have assumed Cloud made it with Tifa had the Compilation not come into being. :p

I agree to an extent. Cloud does have a few moments after he finds himself where he speaks pessimistically and doubts his own abilities and usually Tifa, Barret, or Cid have to knock him out of it.

Though I don't like AC Cloud either you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.
He says he's not fit to help anyone, that there is no cure but what he says most of all is that he wants to be forgiven. That's not along the lines of what you're saying, he's contrasted with Vincent who flt out states that never tried to be forgiven. And you really should check out the Complete version.

Watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Complete (Dub) | Watch Anime Online

Marlene says that what he was doing while away actually WAS looking for a cure and he doesn't deny it. And most of all after the credits he comes to the place where Zack died with Denzel and when Denzel asks him what this place is Cloud says "This is where a hero started his journey." Referring to himself.

I have issues with a movie that has to be remade to tell the story right, so I don't think highly of ACC as it sounds to me it was created to appease the major complaints of the original film.

This just goes against my ideas of writing and how I don't really believe in going back to a film and fixing the mistakes that were noticed from hindsight. Especially when the gap between the original and remake is very short. It just tells me SE knows they screwed up.

But once again, Cloud doesn't come to his own realization by himself. He has to get a pep talk from Vincent (who should really listen to his own advice since he's just as bad as Cloud) and even then Cloud really doesn't start to get back into his old groove until he's cured, which he basically interprets to mean he's "forgiven" which doesn't make sense since he never did anything wrong in the first place. His guilt is self-inflicted and has no basis in reality. He really thinks the two happiest people in the VII universe would hate him for events that happened outside of anyone's control? It doesn't make sense.

Not being held accountable by people out of the kindness of their heart =/= not being responsible. His inability to fight Sephiroths control despite setting out with the rest of the company in stow to try and stop the person who could control him is the reason Aeris died and his inability to cope with Mako enhancements despite setting out from Nibelheim to become a SOLDIER and get said Mako enhancements is the reason Zack died.

Sure, everyone and their mom told him that it wasn't his fault without giving it a moment's thought. I wouldn't have felt very reassured either.

But this IS Cloud's role in the story, the least confident person in AVALANCE, that first needs hear from everyone, up to and including Cid and Barret not even remotely constructive insults, Cait Sith and Yuffie's absurd comments and Vincent's everpresent "..." before he'll take action. That's how everyone's presence is validated. They made a movie and to incite this again they had Sephiroth create a disease that explicietly makes someone depressed and let Cloud be effected by it.

But I don't see how you think he only came into his own after he was cured. As far as I see his change came as soon as he said "Marlene, let's go."