Wonder why so many people don't realize this...

[MJN SEIFER]

I see a lot of talk when a character dies in storyline, how people coment (often jokingly, but sometimes serious) that items like Pheonix Downs can work in battle but not in storyline, the answer that most people give is that they're just "game items".

This however is not the case. When a character's HP is reduced to 0 s/he isn't actually dead. They are actually supposed to be in a coma or something like that, Pheonix Downs and the like are supposed to bring them out of said coma. I don't know about "Game Over" though - either they all wake up at a Save Point, or they are supposed to die from being in a coma, other than that they are not dead.

I don't remember if any translations actually referred to them as "dead", but one reason people get this wrong is because of the "Life" spell - I think it was called "Rise" or something in the original translations (not sure, but whatever it was was less misleading).

They even explain this in FFV (SPOILER)When Gaulf dies, the other characters try to save him by using curative items - including Pheonix Downs, but since he is dead (and not unconcious) it doesn't work., so why all the confusion?

[Raistlin]

I think those people are just pendantic whiners who like making the same rehashed jokes over and over, which was never very clever to begin. Regardless of the exact implications of 0 HP in battle, there is obviously a necessary distinction between that and a character dying, or else nothing would matter.

[Apricoth]

I always considered the character to be K.O.'d, not dead. I guess you can see that as a coma of sorts. If the character is meant to be dead then there would be no way of reviving said character.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

I don't remember if any translations actually referred to them as "dead", but one reason people get this wrong is because of the "Life" spell - I think it was called "Rise" or something in the original translations (not sure, but whatever it was was less misleading).

"Life": Raise
"Life 2": Araise (not "Arise")
"Life 3": Reraise

I think those people are just pendantic whiners who like making the same rehashed jokes over and over, which was never very clever to begin.

Hey, did you ever notice that they keep making sequels even though the title of the game is Final Fantasy?

Isn't that so funny?

[Raistlin]

Isn't that so funny?

[ljkkjlcm9]

well I think it's because the idea behind a Phoenix is that it actually does rise from it's own ashes, it comes back to life. So using a Phoenix Down implies coming back to life. Though, anyone who knows anything, realizes that it's just recovering the person from an unconscious state.

As for why you get a game over? Because no one is there for them to be revived from an unconscious state, so presumably, you would be killed. That's why games where a character gets knocked out and replaced with another character on your team traveling with you make sense, while other games that have entire parties (though you only control like 3) and those three being KO'd = game over make no sense.

In Lost Odyssey, there were 4 immortals. If an immortal was KO'd, in 3 rounds they would recover. But if all of them were KO'd at once, it would be a game over. Funny that they survive a Meteor hitting them almost directly, but can be defeated by a bunch of swords swipes.

THE JACKEL

[Wolf Kanno]

I feel this is just mixing up game mechanics into story mechanics. When your party reaches the bad ass villain, I feel the writers are assuming you don't count the 8 jabillion times little Sally got turned into a "monster punching bag". You assume they walked in, kicked ass, and took a lot of names and it wasn't until "Mr. Badass Villain with a Fro" walked in and started magically kicking everyone's ass despite the fact that two dungeons later you wipe the floor with him.

Besides its hard to argue being "knocked out" when your HP got depleted from a Dragon breathing green "soul fire" (that is said to erode the hardest metals as well as the soul) or even from just gunshots from Soldier A. How the smurf does that simply just "knock you out"?

I feel this is just one of those cases you shouldn't try to rationalize it into context with the story. Its kinda like people in Vs. debates who try to use game mechanics as an argument to prove why such an such would definetly win cause he's got Excelsior. I don't think anyone should take it that far.

[Crimson]

Damnit, this same questions always shows up on Gamefaqs and I had a really long post for it too.


There are TONS of theories as to why characters cannot be revived by Phoenix Downs when they are killed off.


1. The most obvious one, it's a plot hole, while the KO status stands for Knock Out, as we know, the Death spell will always "kill" them, this implies that the status blatantly contradicts itself.

2. Phoenix Down's cannot revive someone who is "too far" dead.

3. It's a story based reason, let's look at Galuf and Aerith for example,


Galuf: He's an old man who was forced to allow himself to be ravaged by severe lightning to shatter his Crystal, then he walked into a ring of FIRE to save his Granddaughter, and finally he took an epic beating from Exdeath's most powerful spells and beat him before finally dying (what an epic scene). This one would backup the "too far" theory around Phoenix Downs.


Aerith: This one is quite debatable, most people usually follow the Masamune theory which is anyone "killed" by Sephiroth's Masamune cannot be revived.

[Formalhaut]

Any one brought up Auto Life yet? What role does that has? because generally thats the same as a PD, except its magic. like Raise and Araise and Reraise.

Does Magic still apply to the shackles of plot PD has? I mean, as of yet I don't think ive seen a storyline where a character "dies" and someone else revives him with Raise.

Or when someone casts auto life on himself, dies soon after and then instantly gets back up again.

i don't know, all this stuff is confusing me slightly.

[,,,]

Does anyone know what any of the games originally called a fallen state? Because as a kid I had no problem with Tellah being perma-dead, because when he hit 0 HP in battle his condition was listed as "swoon." swoon =/= dead, that's easy enough to figure out. I always just assumed that 0HP in FF meant "not in fighting condition" and was content with that. then I learned how much was censored, dumbed down, and mistranslated and I began to suspect that maybe 0HP did mean "dead" after all. Still don't know for sure.

Besides its hard to argue being "knocked out" when your HP got depleted from a Dragon breathing green "soul fire" (that is said to erode the hardest metals as well as the soul) or even from just gunshots from Soldier A. How the smurf does that simply just "knock you out"?

I feel this is just one of those cases you shouldn't try to rationalize it into context with the story. Its kinda like people in Vs. debates who try to use game mechanics as an argument to prove why such an such would definetly win cause he's got Excelsior. I don't think anyone should take it that far.

For paragraph 1, I chalk that up to two things. First, the awesome exotic armor (often containing magical properties) you have, and second, I kind of assume that by higher levels your guys are basically like superheroes. I'm thinking more along the lines of Superman and less along the lines of Ted Kord-era Blue Beetle. But yeah, it's a moot point because paragraph 2 is right on.

[Aerisfanatic]

The HP usually turns red when a character is "KO'd". Red is usually used to represent danger or being at a critical state, where as black usually represents death. But its no wonder we would think that the characters die in battle. Most gamers start playing video games when there children, and when losing a character its not un-common to hear "Oh crap! My guy just died." or when defeating an opponent "Yeah! I killed him!" which is understandable, because you do have a "health" meter and when one's health deteriorates completely you "die"

I've pondered this question before, and I just came to the easy conclusion that they get knocked out when losing there health in battle. But like said before the name "Pheonix down" contradicts this. So it may just be a plothole.

[aquatius]

What I like in FFTA is that they came up with a logical explanation for it. The judges protected people from death with laws. That meant that if you died in a lawless Jagd you'd actually lose the character permanantly.

[hhr1dluv]

Though I generally agree with the idea that phoenix downs revive characters from a knocked out state as opposed to a dead state (hee hee), I don't think that's as clear as some people here are making it. Life spells and the like have a lot of religious references, such as the halo representing auto-life in some games (like X) and with sanctuaries being used to revive fallen party members (in I). See, in FF I, it really makes it seem like the character has actually died in battle, for if they were just knocked out they could be healed at an inn like everyone else, no? All these ties to religion make it seem like the person is being pulled back from death and not simply unconsciousness.