Tanks

[Del Murder]

I like how you think anything that isn't the most efficient combination is a waste of time. It's a game! The whole thing is a waste of time.

[Loony BoB]

As I've said, the moment I find ourselves having to level up jobs we don't want to level up and having it become a chore is probably going to be the moment we stop playing. For now, everyone has been lovely to us so I've not experienced this apparent slagging off for not having a certain subjob. So we keep playing

[WildRaubtier]

I like how you think anything that isn't the most efficient combination isn't a waste of time. Honestly, think about that for a second.

FFXI is a game that, perhaps unfortunately, requires some level of grinding to get to the fun bits (If you think having fun is a waste of time, please see your doctor). As Ouch said, it's fine to experiment if that's your thing and you're on your own or with people who are okay with it, but when you start demanding that everyone should compromise for your benefit, then you're just a plain jerk.

[Loony BoB]

Grinding to get to the fun bits? I find pretty much everything to be fun so long as you're doing it with people who are, you know, fun. It's like chatting, but with something else to do while you do it.

If I wanted to have fun without fun people I'd just play a single-player FF rather than do anything on FFXI at all.

A waste of time isn't about efficiency, for me. A waste of time is spending time on something you don't enjoy. Therefore, why spend time leveling a job you don't want when you can have fun leveling a job you do want? I would rather sit around doing bugger all with a couple of friends than doing any kind of endgame thing with a bunch of anal people who demand many things of me. >_> I know a few other people like this too, as they have L75 jobs but are happy to level up with us lower-level (even sub L10, they just power level us while we solo xD) people despite that.

[WildRaubtier]

Leveling in FFXI is grinding. You're only doing it so you can get to the good bits. This is the same for a lot of RPGs. For all the times you do get some decent people to while away the monotony with, there'll be at least twice that amount where you're sitting on auto-pilot.

That's not to say there's never any exciting bits in XP! Spiders one-shotting a PLD tank are a good example of how to wake everyone up very quickly for some on-the-fly survival measures. I've never not had fun when that happens!

[Loony BoB]

I guess I don't have that problem as Shawtiie and Smitzy are practially always online when I am and Lev, Weiner, Windowpane, Darkrein, Kentarourou and others are also often online. And it's on my agenda to get Mirage into our LS too and he's often on when we are.

So for me it's spent about 75-90% with friends. The other times I usually just do solo quests rather than leveling.

[Ouch!]

I like how you think anything that isn't the most efficient combination is a waste of time. It's a game! The whole thing is a waste of time.

I don't view entertaining myself as a waste of time. There are certain things I enjoy doing in FFXI, and there are other things I don't enjoy as much but I put up with because the benefits for doing them in the long run are worth it (or at least I think so). I'm not particularly fond of the grind anymore; I do, however, like the idea of having more options at level 75 for different events. And I do think sub-optimal job combination are wasting my time when I'm grinding, especially when I'm trying to churn out 25,000+ exp. to get to the next level. If someone makes that take longer than it needs to, I'm not likely to be pleased with them.

[Loony BoB]

But what if they're fun to be around? Or do you play more for the sake of gaming than interacting with others?

[Del Murder]

I like how you think anything that isn't the most efficient combination isn't a waste of time. Honestly, think about that for a second.

FFXI is a game that, perhaps unfortunately, requires some level of grinding to get to the fun bits (If you think having fun is a waste of time, please see your doctor). As Ouch said, it's fine to experiment if that's your thing and you're on your own or with people who are okay with it, but when you start demanding that everyone should compromise for your benefit, then you're just a plain jerk.

I disagree with everything you've just said. Waste of time is not about efficiency, it's about entertainment. My previous statement was not meant to be taken literally. Of course FFXI isn't a waste of time, otherwise I wouldn't play it.

BoB seems to be playing the right way. He should be the one teaching you guys how to do it. Don't let people get you down with 'ffxi is a grind' or 'you have to be level 75 to do anything fun'. What's fun is subjective. There is fun everywhere in this game. Especially when you already have a friend to play with. Eleni and I did tons of fun stuff before we got to level 75. In fact, she played for 3 years without having a level 75 character, and I played for a whole year before that even became a priority.

Demanding compromise works both ways. Demanding a PLD/RDM to change to PLD/WAR is demanding compromise for your benefit. It is only more acceptable because it is the more conventional way to play. You are always free to not play with the people who don't comform to conventional standards. We all know there are plenty out there who will conform. Just don't make it sound like there is only one goal, one way to have fun, and one way to play this game. There are several, and the narrow minded approach people seem to have in regard to FFXI is really disappointing.

Some people are in it for the exp/hour, or the gear hoarding, but some are in it for the experience. 10 years from now when all the servers go down and your precious levels and gear are obliterated, what are you going look fondly upon more? The fact that you got a Ridill, or that one time you partied with the crazy PLD/RDM? It's up to you which you would care about more, but I know what I would pick.

I would take a party of Eleni, BoB, smitten, Lev, and Ouch, as any job combinations, over any other 5. Ouch can even come as his dream job combo, MNK/SMN.

[Rostum]

There is no one 'right' way to play this game, it's an MMORPG and therefor is open to different types of gamers. If someone wants to be the most efficient player, then so be it - that's what they enjoy. If someone just wants to play with a small circle of friends then that's cool too (but don't expect to experience much towards higher levels).

I personally believe you shouldn't limit yourself to just a close nit group of people to play with; though I am not saying to abandon that, because it is a great way to get into the game. There's usually what? 2000-3000 people on a server during prime time? I've made a lot of friends over the last 5 or so years from doing pick up group stuff and joining end-game linkshells.

All I am really saying is that you play it how you want, but don't get upset if others don't agree with it. Remember this game has been running since around 2001 and people have already experimented to great detail and they have already figured out the most "efficient' way of doing this; this means there's not a lot of room to explore if you join up with random people or do any end-game stuff (though I have been in a few groups that are so easy going). But that isn't stopping you from exploring with friends.

I am similar to Zach in that I love having a wide range of subjobs ( Omecle - Midgardsormr - FFXIAH.com ) but I'm not so crazy about gear like Zach is. Silly Zach!

[Loony BoB]

For what it's worth, I don't limit myself - I play with Danielle & Shawtiie + 3 others. Tonight I've partied with about eight people I don't know and experienced my first ever person-who-infuriated-me. xD They just... kept getting aggro. Constantly. Running right next to gobs. Apparently it was their first time not using a L75 char for a while and they didn't realise how far they had to go to avoid gobs... but... really. After two deaths, don't you think you should hug the wall like we all do? Oh well! We had fun anyway. And met some really funky people. xD

[Ouch!]

All I'm suggesting is that the attitude of, "I'll play how I want to play, screw what everyone else thinks," has a high probability in being restrictive later down the road. I personally see it as constricting to the point of leaving you unable to do much outside of very low-man content and leveling up various jobs over and over. To me, it just feels like you're shortchanging yourself and barring yourself from a large portion of what FFXI has to offer.

For the record, I do enjoy to experiment, especially with RDM. I have BLM, WHM, SCH, DRK, NIN and BLU subs leveled already for RDM. I'm planning on leveling PLD and DNC at some point to try them out as well. I'm in the process of building a melee set which has absolutely no purpose beyond my own personal amusement. I was in a party of BRD/WHM, COR/RNG, DNC/NIN, RDM/WHM, and RDM/NIN as the RDM/NIN being the main DD. All I'm trying to say is that while experimenting and playing around with the game can be a buttload of fun, you will encounter situations where not being prepared to conform will prevent you or hamper your efforts to do something you want.

[Del Murder]

Aww ouch, how can I stay mad at you.

[Ouch!]

When I figure out something that makes people stay mad at me, I'll let you know. The arrogance card isn't nearly as effective as I might have hoped. Flat out telling people, "I don't even pretend to like you," doesn't have a high success rate either, apparently!

[Loony BoB]

The funny thing about this thread is, despite all of this debate, Danielle has SMN & SCH to go with her WHM (and has leveled BLM & RDM to at least L10) and I have PLD to go with my WAR (with DRK available and every other base job leveled to at least 10). So I guess we have the 'efficient' jobs anyway. xD