Tanks

[Ouch!]

Omecle was merely commenting that "end-game" activities make up a majority of what the game has to offer. There's no need to twist his words like he's disregarding the rest of what the game has to offer. In sheer volume of content, there's more to do at level 75 than there is at any other level in the game. Whether or not you're bored of it doesn't change the fact that it makes up a huge portion of the game's offered content.

Oh lordy. What are you talking about Ouch? Seriously, dude what's with the defensiveness?

I shared that fact that in my 4 years of playing the game, I have always had plenty to do, and plenty of fun, and rarely experienced the kind of rigorous discrimination that you all have mentioned. And I made it clear that I never invested in end game stuff where the standards are different as I've already stated. I just think it's completely possible to have a great experience in FFXI without taking up the end game content which is intensely time consuming, strict, and difficult. That's all man. It ain't that deep.

I'm not trying to debate the point that you can't have a fulfilling time playing Final Fantasy XI without participating in any form of end game. I was merely pointing out that a large volume of what the game has to offer is considered end game. A number of the things you've mentioned in FFXI I can only view as a means to an end, mostly because I've done them enough that I've had my fill of them. I'm not being defensive, I just think you're full of it.

Of course people have level 75 characters. That's not what I'm talking about when I talk about end-game. Getting to level 75 isn't end game, that's just... the game. xD But when someone talks about how 70% of the game is end game stuff, I wasn't thinking in terms of pure content, I was thinking in terms of how many people actually spend the bulk of their time doing specifically end game stuff.

If it's something that you can only do at level 75 and it requires a group, I tend to consider it some form of end game. You can do Nyzul Isle runs on the fly, but I still consider that end game. KSNMs, ISNMs, Missions, ZNMs, HNMs, Assaults, Nyzul Isle, Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Salvage, etc. are all events I consider endgame. This is a large portion of what FFXI has to offer. All I was saying by backing up Omecle was that these events make up a very significant chunk of what FFXI offers, and I think it's a shame to just ignore these things.

Like I said, there's so much to do in this game. And if you want to fight gods and whatnot, then making strategically sound choices in jobs and subjobs is a good thing. If that is what you want to do. But if you want to just have fun leveling a certain job because it's a job you have fun playing, it's silly to change your plans based on the fact that you might be doing dynamis once a week and your WHM would be overlooked for a RDM.

First of all, a WHM will almost never be overlooked in favor of a RDM. They do two completely different things at endgame, and suggesting otherwise just shows, as Del has said, "an ignorant point of view." Anyway, I'm not basing my entire argument around a job's usefulness in end game. Go ask a level 75 PUP if they were able to regularly get parties with relative ease while they were leveling it. A large number of jobs just have difficulty finding parties. I'm not saying this is a reason to abandon what you want to do. I've never been trying to argue such an extreme position. I'm just trying to make others aware of the attitude that has prevailed in the FFXI community for years. My problem with your argument, is that it seems you're suggesting that players should do whatever they want to do, and there won't be consequences. I'm just trying to make others aware that there are consequences of deviating from the norm.

Your own wishes and desires should be considered first, and THEN factor in community standards and expectations. Ultimately, whatever you do in this game I feel should be motivated from a desire to have fun. People have fun doing different things. But I don't think you should sacrifice your own entertainment just so you can be exactly what a specific group of people want you to be for a very specific event on very specific days.

Nor am I, but I am saying it is something of which one should be aware. Let's take for example my friend Kirou. He leveled THF to 75. He's leveling DNC to 75 now. He's preparing to level PUP to 75 next. He's also leveled DRG to 75 so that he has a job he can actually get parties done on. He's leveling DNC and PUP because he wants to, but he also recognizes that only having these jobs prevent him from doing other things he's interested in. That's the type of awareness that I support. There is a prejudice, often unfounded, in FFXI's community against many jobs. You're a WHM, Miriel. You wouldn't have experienced it, but maybe you should try and talk to someone who has before you try and say that we're exaggerating this prejudice.

Hasn't Call Wyvern been a 20min ability for longer than it hasn't been? As long as I've been playing at least. The lolDRG mentality was still in effect at that time too, for really no reason.

I've seen a DNC main heal a melee party in Dynamis, while also giving us the very cool Haste Samba.

I really think you guys read too much into this stuff.

Unfortunately, I'm much too amused by these debates to have reached my long post threshold quite yet.

At any rate, I'd argue your point about DRG is irrelevant. It took almost two years for Square Enix to change Call Wyvern to a 20 minute recast. Two years of prejudice didn't change instantly, and even then, until the two-handed weapon update, DRG was still fairly unpopular because jobs who could utilize /NIN for Dual Wield were far and away more popular (even though the numbers didn't stack up).

As for your comment about DNC, they're still perceived as inferior to WHM for main healing due to the lack of the ability to raise others (people are going to die in Dynamis, and having a main healer who can't raise them is a problem). Many would debate whether or not haste samba is actually worth using. It doesn't actually give haste; it lowers delay, which is bound to annoy anyone who uses a two-handed weapon since it messes with their TP gain. SAMs especially dislike it because it ruins 6-hit builds.

Summary: You don't have to conform if you don't want to, but just know that it potentially limits what you're able to easily accomplish!