Turns out the 360 really did compromise the PS3 version

[Madame Adequate]

Words

Maybe Sony need a new marketing department then because I am absolutely not interested in one despite the presence of giant enemy crabs.

[Wolf Kanno]

To be fair Bolivar, only three titles you mentioned there I am actually interested in.

To put this thread back onto topic...

I feel that this information may have sunk some expectations from XIII. Even if it is amazing, its going to be like FFXII where people will always wonder about "what could have been".

arcanedude34: Actually that's a lose/lose situation, if SE forsakes the 360 fans then they can kiss their sales goodbye for the system. Nothing tarnishes a company's rep faster than releasing bad ports and lord know Microsoft isn't going to settle for a AA version of a AAA title. Playing obvious favorites isn't going to help them in this situation.

Personally I'm not too disturbed by the prospect of "FF not pushing the PS3 to its limits" cause my favorite titles tend to be ones that were built on a creative level rather than pushing technology specs. FFXII was a technological marvel of the last generation but I felt P3, which obviously didn't have half the power going into it was a superior game on all fronts(despite that, I still love FFXII ). Even Ico showed off incredible depth and beauty and only used a bit of the PS2 power. SE has been pulling some odd creativity in some of their off handheld titles and I'm curious to see if XIII might use them too since XII was such a wonderful surprise for me from a design perspective.

[NeoCracker]

To be fair Bolivar, only three titles you mentioned there I am actually interested in.

To put this thread back onto topic...

I feel that this information may have sunk some expectations from XIII. Even if it is amazing, its going to be like FFXII where people will always wonder about "what could have been".

arcanedude34: Actually that's a lose/lose situation, if SE forsakes the 360 fans then they can kiss their sales goodbye for the system. Nothing tarnishes a company's rep faster than releasing bad ports and lord know Microsoft isn't going to settle for a AA version of a AAA title. Playing obvious favorites isn't going to help them in this situation.

Personally I'm not too disturbed by the prospect of "FF not pushing the PS3 to its limits" cause my favorite titles tend to be ones that were built on a creative level rather than pushing technology specs. FFXII was a technological marvel of the last generation but I felt P3, which obviously didn't have half the power going into it was a superior game on all fronts(despite that, I still love FFXII ). Even Ico showed off incredible depth and beauty and only used a bit of the PS2 power. SE has been pulling some odd creativity in some of their off handheld titles and I'm curious to see if XIII might use them too since XII was such a wonderful surprise for me from a design perspective.

I'd actually argue the P3 did use a lot of what the PS2's power, at least the FES version.

First, look at the insane library of Persona's available, and everyone of them were very detailed, and the system space things like the fusion system likely took.

Then all the different maps in game and battle mechanics, random treasure generation, the varied AI of characters, as well as the different tactics settings.

Then, in addition to all that, you have the social aspects outside of combat as well. You are basically given not only a full fledged RPG, but you are also given basically a second full fledged game within the social aspects of the game as well.

Then you look into The Answer, which added even more to the game itself. Graphically it may not have been FF XII, but it definately took advantage of a lot of what the PS2 was capable of doing.

[Wolf Kanno]

Actually, a random number generator used to create dungeons and treasure is not as difficult to implement as you think. Port Island City is probably only a third of the size of Rabanastre and due to the stylized graphics, its hardly taxing on the system. Most of the Personas are actually reused and slightly tweaked models from SMT3 and they use less animation than the ones in their original game since they only use two animations as opposed to SMT3 where they stand on your side and occasionally move a bit to make them not appear static as well as various other minor animations.

I'm not saying P3 isn't huge it easily clocks in as an 80+ hour game but the engine needed to produce that game wouldn't need to be as strong or as sophisticated as XII's. XII also has a randomizer for treasure, needs to generate several models on the map at once and do it as seemlessly as possible. Not mention random spawns and multiple effects since spells and attack animation happen simultaneously. It has to utilize multiple A.I. like P3, and do it all with a world created in painstaking detail. P3 has less to worry about than XII.

Both are truly amazing titles that helped define the PS2 for me but I wouldn't be surprised if XII used the PS2 to its limits.

[Bolivar]

To be fair Bolivar, only three titles you mentioned there I am actually interested in.

Well, that's fine, my point was just that it's hard to imagine that one could be excited for any current console if the ps3 doesn't interest them (unless of course you're a housemom ).

Personally I'm not too disturbed by the prospect of "FF not pushing the PS3 to its limits" cause my favorite titles tend to be ones that were built on a creative level rather than pushing technology specs. Even Ico showed off incredible depth and beauty and only used a bit of the PS2 power.

Actually, Ico was in fact a technological marvel, even compared to the final generation of PS2 games. I remember when the game was coming out, that was the first time I heard articles talking about Dynamic Lighting and other graphical techniques that developers in the current High-Definition generation have just started to talk about and using. My gf just beat it 2 weeks ago and it's one of those games that makes me feel we haven't really come that far since then on the graphical level, which is actually pretty sad.

[Dreddz]

Well, that's fine, my point was just that it's hard to imagine that one could be excited for any current console if the ps3 doesn't interest them (unless of course you're a housemom :p).

While I agree I think theres two things you need to remember. One is that the PS3 and 360 are almost identical with their game libraries. If someone already owns one of the systems, there isn't much incentive to buy the other. If your already satisfied with your system then why drop a load of cash on the other for a few exclusive games. It just isn't a very practical way to spend your money.

Secondly, is that everyone is biased. No matter how much you try not to be, you are. If someone doesn't have any means to play certain games on a platform, they'll lose interest. So don't take offense if someone overlooks the PS3 library. It may seem absurd to you but thats the way things go.

[NeoCracker]

Actually, a random number generator used to create dungeons and treasure is not as difficult to implement as you think. Port Island City is probably only a third of the size of Rabanastre and due to the stylized graphics, its hardly taxing on the system. Most of the Personas are actually reused and slightly tweaked models from SMT3 and they use less animation than the ones in their original game since they only use two animations as opposed to SMT3 where they stand on your side and occasionally move a bit to make them not appear static as well as various other minor animations.

I'm not saying P3 isn't huge it easily clocks in as an 80+ hour game but the engine needed to produce that game wouldn't need to be as strong or as sophisticated as XII's. XII also has a randomizer for treasure, needs to generate several models on the map at once and do it as seemlessly as possible. Not mention random spawns and multiple effects since spells and attack animation happen simultaneously. It has to utilize multiple A.I. like P3, and do it all with a world created in painstaking detail. P3 has less to worry about than XII.

Both are truly amazing titles that helped define the PS2 for me but I wouldn't be surprised if XII used the PS2 to its limits.

The thing with P3 is shear volume of everything. As well as 3 sperate AI settings, as well as both RPG and an advanced dating simulator aspects.

True, it probably doesn't take what FF XII did, but my point is P3 was a really poor example for what you were getting at, cause it definately took a lot for that game to run.

[arcanedude34]

All I was saying was it would not bankrupt them. Would it be a bad move? Probably, but they seem to be handling this multi-platform thing very sloppily anyway.

[Wolf Kanno]

To be fair Bolivar, only three titles you mentioned there I am actually interested in.

Well, that's fine, my point was just that it's hard to imagine that one could be excited for any current console if the ps3 doesn't interest them (unless of course you're a housemom ).

See Dreddz's response but to be honest, most housemom's I know are more interested in capping people in Halo 3 or driving around Liberty City in GTA rather than playing Wii Resort or a new Cooking Mama game. I know strange people

Personally I'm not too disturbed by the prospect of "FF not pushing the PS3 to its limits" cause my favorite titles tend to be ones that were built on a creative level rather than pushing technology specs. Even Ico showed off incredible depth and beauty and only used a bit of the PS2 power.

Actually, Ico was in fact a technological marvel, even compared to the final generation of PS2 games. I remember when the game was coming out, that was the first time I heard articles talking about Dynamic Lighting and other graphical techniques that developers in the current High-Definition generation have just started to talk about and using. My gf just beat it 2 weeks ago and it's one of those games that makes me feel we haven't really come that far since then on the graphical level, which is actually pretty sad.

Ico utilized some pretty wonderful theatre techniques in terms of lighting and also had some excellent use of film camera techniques but from what I've read and heard from my programming buddies, these are once again not elements that are terribly taxing on the console. They just utilized advanced techniques from film and theater set design. I wholly agree that I feel the industry hasn't really stepped up to what Ico brought back in the day. I think Shadow of the Colossus is about the only game that may surpass Ico but its from the same team and its why The Last Guardian is one of the few titles I'm incredibly interested in.

The thing with P3 is shear volume of everything. As well as 3 sperate AI settings, as well as both RPG and an advanced dating simulator aspects.

True, it probably doesn't take what FF XII did, but my point is P3 was a really poor example for what you were getting at, cause it definately took a lot for that game to run.

P3 is a triple A title that doesn't push the system as hard as other games but is still fantastic. FFXIII is also a triple A title that may not push the PS3 to its limits but may still be an incredible game nonetheless. How is this not a good analogy?

All I was saying was it would not bankrupt them. Would it be a bad move? Probably, but they seem to be handling this multi-platform thing very sloppily anyway.

It won't and yes they are doing the whole business pretty poorly but to be fair to SE they sorta put themselves into a "damn if you do, damn if you don't" situation. Right now, they are probably just trying to keep their heads above water. If they are smart, they won't repeat this mistake with Versus XIII. Though I can see them wanting to go mulit-platform with XIV in order to take advantage of X-Box Live and because FFXI seems to be doing rather well on the system. It may or may not happen but it won't be as big of a PR scandal as people made XIII to be.

[NeoCracker]

[QUOTE=Wolf Kanno;2729880]

The thing with P3 is shear volume of everything. As well as 3 sperate AI settings, as well as both RPG and an advanced dating simulator aspects.

True, it probably doesn't take what FF XII did, but my point is P3 was a really poor example for what you were getting at, cause it definately took a lot for that game to run.

P3 is a triple A title that doesn't push the system as hard as other games but is still fantastic. FFXIII is also a triple A title that may not push the PS3 to its limits but may still be an incredible game nonetheless. How is this not a good analogy?

It's mostly the Idea that 'P3 didn't use half of what the system could do' or whatever the exact wording you put in in was.

If the only thing needed to draw an analogy is 'a Triple A title that doesn't use all the system has to offer'

And in this case there is a massive difference between the two. FF XIII was initially intended to push the system, but in the end that didn't happen, where as P3 was never intended to do that, it simply used a good chunk of the system, definately more then just half if you ask me, to create a massive library of personas as well as run m a lot of different in battle mechanics and out of battle mechanics smoothly, it wasn't trying to be any kind of technical marvel where as XIII was.

[Wolf Kanno]

When has a first or even second gen game in a console generation ever push the system to its limits? I can bet you money Kojima Production could probably do things with the PS3 now they thought were impossible back when they worked on MGS4 and I feel Kojima has always had more success in pushing a system than SE.

I find it pretty funny people were gullible enough to believe a company could work on a system for the first time and program something that takes the system to its limits. I know several companies made boastful claims but lets be realistic here. No one has ever released a game of that caliber that early in the life cycle of a console.

While FFX and MGS2 were technological milestones for their time, they both look like ass now, compared to MGS3 and FFXII. Both games were released later and used the same hardware but the level of complexity and scope compared to the early installments is staggering. This has always been the case with new (relatively) console systems and I don't see how this generation would be any different. XIII would probably have to be in development for another five years to push the PS3 to its limits.

As for P3, perhaps less than half is an exaggeration but if you just looked at screenshots and not play most would believe me. The point was that P3 utilized clever game design and stylized art to create an amazing experience while XII went the technological route (though to be fair it also used clever game design and stylized art for the in-game models) to achieve its goal. I am just saying that technology doesn't necessarily make a good game.

[Bolivar]

^ I think the argument was that it would be the first game to show what the system was truly capable of. While many media commentators have regarded it as a joke, game designers like Amy Hennig have stated that you can in fact measure the amount of the system's power you're tapping into with regard to the SPU's. Even today developers are still talking about the untapped potential of the PS3, although it would seem Killzone 2 has and Uncharted 2 will beat Square to the punch.

[genesizz257]

IMO i think they should make the Jap voices as a Downloadable addon for ps3 as some of the game will be installed on the hdd

[nirojan]

VISUAL DOWNGRADE ANYONE??









look @ how smooth the characters were before the downgrade.

THIS IS REALLY GETS ME!!


look @ how blank her expressions are now! The textures were soo vibrant, but now its soo simplistic!

Here's the site i got it from:
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SO remember to flip the finger @ the 360 for ruining this game!

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

The blog is about comparing the images from early screenshots to later development shots. Furthermore, the second set is comparing a screenshot from Square Enix to a capture off a TV from the FFXIII trailer that came with the overseas version of Advent Children.

The last image, they don't say what the two sources are, just "Early" and "Recent" production.

The overall article is about the decline in quality from the earlier days of production or what appears to be so.

It says nothing about the 360 version and there's a lot about those images we don't know, like if they are on the same system/have the same hook up. For all we know, one could be on a SD TV and the other on a HDTV. :/

What I am saying is don't count your chicks before they hatch.