Super Boss vs. Final Boss

[Skyblade]

As for Omega being the strongest monster in the world, could he really survive something like Time Compression? I mean Ultimecia could possibly Junction herself to Omega if she wanted to. Her power did technically reach a point beyond human comprehension.

Since we only see Omega in a post-Time Compression world, I would say, yes, he can survive it.

Ultimecia had intended to compress time to a point where only she could survive. Her spell failed, though we aren't sure why. Laguna proposed that the friendship and belief in each other would let everyone survive past Time Compression. If so, she completed her spell and it simply wasn't as powerful as she would like to have us believe. Or perhaps Ellone pulling Rinoa out of the past early disrupted the spell and prevented a full compression of time (although, since she supposedly left Ultimecia back there, I don't see why).

Either way, the result is the same: Ulti played her big magic, and it failed. Either she wasn't powerful enough to do what she needed to, or she didn't have enough support to pull it off. Either way, Omega survived her attempt, and is still around, not under her control, and far more powerful than she is.

Why he's in her castle, I'm not sure. But it seems fairly clear that he withstood her attempts to overcome him.


Although, perhaps Omega is a result of Time Compression, rather than a survivor of it. A fusion of monsters past and present, combined into an ultimate beast.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't remember them saying that Ultimecia failed with Time Compression rather it began from the past and moved towards the future since she cast the spell in the past. I always thought your party was attacking her before the spell was completed as opposed to after it failed. Her final form alone is actually absorbing time as you battle and you simply defeat her before it finishes. This was at least how I interpreted it, I'm not quite there yet in my current playthrough.

I do like the theory of Omega Weapon existing due to Time Compression as opposed to being some other all powerful Weapon.

[Skyblade]

I don't remember them saying that Ultimecia failed with Time Compression rather it began from the past and moved towards the future since she cast the spell in the past. I always thought your party was attacking her before the spell was completed as opposed to after it failed. Her final form alone is actually absorbing time as you battle and you simply defeat her before it finishes. This was at least how I interpreted it, I'm not quite there yet in my current playthrough.

I do like the theory of Omega Weapon existing due to Time Compression as opposed to being some other all powerful Weapon.

The info we get from Odine and Laguna indicates that once Ulti gets back to the past, she will start casting Time Compression. Squall and company use the merging of past, present, and future to reach Ultimecia. If time hadn't begun to compress, they would never have been able to reach Ultimecia where she dwells in the future. We manipulated her Time Compression to reach a point where we could attack her. So she definitely started casting the spell. Either it failed, or it didn't wipe out everyone else. Either way, it wasn't enough to stop Omega.

Her "absorb all time" spell might have beaten Omega, but I think he could have destroyed her before she finished it, if they were actually fighting. She clearly needs something to reduce her casting time.

[Wolf Kanno]

As I said, I feel that your party deals with Ultimecia before Time Compression is complete, otherwise, you wouldn't be fighting other monsters on your way to kick her ass. By the time that your party battles her final form, Ultimecia is absorbing time and all that exists is you and her, something that is stated if you scan her. I think you can resist TC for a limited time but once the spell goes into full swing it would be impossible to surmount. I think TC only ended once Ulty got killed.

Omega is also sealed away, which to me tells me that he is powerful but beatable. A full TC Ultimecia could probably destroy Omega since TC itself would not destroy him to begin with, rather just freeze him in time.

[Serapy]

Why he's in her castle, I'm not sure. But it seems fairly clear that he withstood her attempts to overcome him.

Same reason why does Ultimecia live in a huge thing which, apparently, appears to be a castle. A castle with a motivtation strongly resembles one of the historical things; Artemisia, Mausolus and her castle.

Omega is probably a guardian of Ultimecia.

In FFXII, I loved the lore of Hell Wyrm. Don't ask why.

[Mirage]

I don't think this thread makes any sort of sense :(

[Christmas]

Well I remember Ultimecia had a skill that reduce your HP to 1, so if she uses it on Omega Weapon, she might win easily!

[Forsaken Lover]

Bump. And I got Wolf's okay to do it.

Now since Trema was mentioned, I think it needs to be talked about because, unlike most of the Final Boss vs. Superboss debates, it has some substance.

We find this substance in a cutscene and text.
First, the cutscene:
YouTube - Trema Battle Part 2

As you can see, Trema canonically destroys Paragon right there in the cutscene. And pretty easily too I might add.

Now, what do we know of Paragon?

1. It's Lord Zaon, the spirit who made the first Final Aeon to defeat Sin.
2. The text I mentioned earlier is the Scan you can perform on Paragon:
"The strongest fiend of all time. According to the little data available it has the power to rend the heavens and sunder the earth."

In short, Trema just owned the strongest fiend ever who was made from the spirit of the same man who was once a Final Aeon.

I would say that Trema could very well be near the level of power of Braska's Final Aeon (the real final boss of FFX) or Vegnagun.

On the note of FFXII, isn't The Undying:
A. Infused with a good majority of the Sun Cryst's power
and
B. Fused with Venat?

Now considering the power of the Occuria and the fact a small piece of the Cryst can blow a city and its surroundings to Hell, I would thik he's stronger than the optional bosses.

[Karifean]

About FFX-2
Interesting cause you have Trema - Vegnagun, but there are also Paragon, Strongest Shinra and Numerus.

I'd say Trema, Strongest Shinra and Numerus would definitely beat Vegnagun. I think it's funny how Trema simply jumps in front of Paragon and kills him. I somehow doubt Paragon could beat Vegnagun - we don't even know whether Sin or Vegnagun is stronger, do we (although it certainly looks like Sin would win)?

So I think Trema would easily kill Vegnagun but would lose to Numerus and Strongest Shinra. Paragon would lose to Numerus, Trema and Vegnagun. Strongest Shinra, though, is probably even stronger than Numerus. Braska's Final Aeon... would probably lose to Trema, Shinra and Numerus. Maybe the three of them put together could even stand a chance against Sin in his whole power.

About FFVIII
Ultimecia seems to have tried to tame Omega Weapon, but couldn't and simply locked him away. Triggering the bell opens the cage. Anyway, Ultimecia IMO couldn't defeat Omega Weapon.

About FFVII
Sephiroth would kill those WEAPONs. The ShinRa managed to defeat Sapphire Weapon, so why shouldn't Sephiroth be capable of killing 'em?

About FFX
"JUDGEMENT DAY" and Braska's Final Aeon is dead. I don't believe he'd stand a chance against Penance. Nemesis... maybe, but I doubt it.

About FFXIII
In spoilers, of courseI doubt either Vercingetorix or a Long Gui could stand a chance against Orphan. Either is very strong, but Orphan is an incredibly powerful Fal'Cie.

[VeloZer0]

About FFXIII
In spoilers, of courseI doubt either Vercingetorix or a Long Gui could stand a chance against Orphan. Either is very strong, but Orphan is an incredibly powerful Fal'Cie.

And if they could there goes the entire story

[Greatermaximus]

Alright, to start off, we are not basing this on in-game mechanics this was more of something I always wonder is whether the super bosses of FF lore are actually stronger than the final boss in there respected games from a story standpoint.

Can ExDeath really defeat Omega? Could Sephiroth really take on the WEAPONS and win? Is Ozma stronger than Kuja? Is the Omega Fiend on par with Yu-Yevon? and is the Undying powerful enough to beat the legendary Yiazmat?

Remember, this is from a story standpoint so I don't need mentioning of how Ultima is Kuja's "I win" button or how Sephiroth could use Knights of the Round to beat the WEAPONS. Game mechanics exist simply for the game or to pull off certain elements of the plot but should not be factored in.

To also answer what the thread-starter wants to know.

Simply put they lack the purpose and special skill. Since fiction has an upper limit it isn't the destiny of some ancient dragon to beat the main human villian unless the author declares so.

But you're getting us started about how faith, destiny, and purpose are a logical bases for character strengths with circumstances pending.

Play the game or watch National Geographic. You know how that goes.

[Mirage]

I know everyone hates FFX-2 but has anyone recognized the multi part Vegnagun/Shuyin Final battle and the Two Part Super Boss Paragon/Trema?

And yes, Paragon and Trema is a Two Part because theres no break in between fighting them.

Trema has 99999 hp! And he has almost every stat Maxed at 255. He also has 999 mp. And has Ultima, Meteor and I think Demi as well. Not to mention going through 99 cloisters JUST to get to him, then fighting Paragon, jesus. The whole Via Infinito is just one massive Superboss.

Trema has way more hp than 99999, and neither his ultima or meteor is an instant death.

[Wolf Kanno]

To also answer what the thread-starter wants to know.

Simply put they lack the purpose and special skill. Since fiction has an upper limit it isn't the destiny of some ancient dragon to beat the main human villian unless the author declares so.

But you're getting us started about how faith, destiny, and purpose are a logical bases for character strengths with circumstances pending.

Play the game or watch National Geographic. You know how that goes.

This thread is why I used the rules of non-game mechanics, not to mention that game mechanic-wise, certain games have terribly abusive systems that make this question unbalanced in some instances.

This is hardly about the role of fiction and writing but the idea of playful speculation

I feel its interesting to see what people really feel about the context of a weakling final boss whose main strength is showcased purely through the story could handle a being the player experiences first hand as being a grade-A pain in the ass to battle. Just go with it.