Tunnel

[Ryushikaze]

Then why bother fighting against this opinion?

I'm not. I'm fighting against you asserting it as fact.

I read VIII and I was then wronged by someone else for getting something wrong due to new-lol-canonised information from Ultimania. This time, I am told to read the Ultimania's translations and then I must change my view on VIII as a whole.

But this does not mean the Ultimania is invalid.

There's something wrong about this process. It's not my fault that I've got something wrong. It's Square's fault.

Yes, it IS your fault you got something wrong. They hold the information. That's their perogative.

Ultimania is only exclusive to Japanese. If Square was so desperate to modify something in FF games and thus re-clarify our knowledges, they could of have added multi-languages support, but they didn't.

Again, this doesn't make it invalid at all.

So, what could this mean? It could mean that Ultimania is not actually very important to people who don't understand Japanese. They have left us the original games in English and that's what matters.

No, the original games, and the international versions, are in Japanese. Square made the games and the Ultimanias in Japanese.

It's completely wrong to use Ultimania as a whole to disprove something. 99% of the original plot and 1% Ultimania are fine, depending on the context.

It's not wrong in the slightest for a writer to release additional information regarding their series that disproves assumptions made about it. You just don't like it because it kills your pet theory.

I never declared it to be invalid.

Yes you did. You are saying it doesn't count.

Partly. DigiCube Co was the company that released and published VIII Ultimania.

It wasn't my fault that my perspective contradicted the Ultimania.

You keep talking about 'not your fault' like it makes any difference. Your perspective is contradicted by the Ultimania. It takes precedence.

There wasn't evidence regarding his sexuality in the series. And all of a sudden, Rowling claims that he's gay. That's the whole point.

And this contradicts nothing in the books. It is totally Rowling's right to do this.

Still relevant.

No, because it was an error made in the translation of the game's manual.

Thier mistakes have proved something. Therefore, it's better to focus on the original games and not to focus on the external sources.

They prove nothing, and the manual IS an external source by your logic. Not that the Ultimania is any more an 'external source' than J.K. Rowling is for Harry Potter.

Addressing the explanation as to why the Kefka case is a contradiction is irrelevant. We are on the VIII board.

No it's not, because you listed it in the first place as an example of contradiction making official sources unreliable. So either concede this point or substantiate it.

It's not wise to 100% trust them after they have made these mistakes.

Mistakes you claim they have made but have not substantiated, and do not justify outright disregarding the Ultimania as you would like to.

According to your definition of 'troll', Lychon was definitely a troll. And yet, you gave up on him. See below for more explanation.

I didn't give up on him, I stopped responding to him because his long winded responses on nothing weren't even amusing to respond to any longer. Besides, he got banned immediately thereafter, making any response utterly redundant.

Four Greek persons < One Greek person? Really?

One greek person we know exists > Four greek people you say exist.
If you could provide evidence they exist and they say what you say they do, it would be different.

They are both the same thing in terms of inaccuratity.

No. They aren't. One is 'They is doing something wrong', the other is 'adekjh wdkjuhfd fin ekfhsd'

So, if someone miserably adds something and that new data, which is deemed to be out of the ordinary, becomes equally as important as the orginal games? Right.

IF that data makes it through the editing process, then yes, it will be valid until it is overruled. That is how canon works.

It's possible. Impress your boss and he probably will approve it.

In which case, 'your boss' being the creator/s of the original game, will know if it it in line with their vision for the game, and approve or disapprove on that basis.

Anybody can have any job.

Can you be hired for this job?

I was just hypothesizing a scenario.

The likelihood of which is very very slim.

Not everybody will put the same identical characters.

But your Japanese would be random nonsense and maybe the occasional real word interspersed.

You're now claiming that Squall is linked with lions.

His name is Leonhart. His theme song is 'Maybe I'm a Lion'. His emblem is a lion.

So, if Ultimecia has them on her castle, and considering that the visible comparison of between these visual images does exist, it must be true.

WHAT must be true? That the image you showed is relevant to FFVIII? That does not follow. Squall having an obvious link to Lions does not substantiate your claim that that image has anything to do with FFVIII.

If this thing has no possibility of drawing any conclusion, then what's the purpose of its existence when it, in fact, keeps showing up in more than one instance within the game? Why would the developers waste time on designing things that absolutely mean nothing?

Also, when you look at one thing, it's not a conclusion. A conclusion usually occurs at the end of the thinking process.

How does 'this thing' keep showing up? And yes, you are drawing conclusions from this thing.
As for why they'd design something without meaning 'It looks cool.'

I shall accept this statement as meaningless.

But it's not meaningless. It's a referrer to my response to your identical statement elsewhere.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fan...ml#post1757460

Your excuse for not replying to him back is off topic? Well, well! Most of the things in our arguments are mostly off-topic as well!

You're partly responsible for making him get banned. And that administrator... Yeah.

Are you trying to DEFEND Lychon, Serapy? And are you saying that these discussions, which are talking about your claims, are off topic from the threads, which are about your claims?

Your logic is so compelling. Back in '06, the phenomenon of 'trolls' wasn't widely acknowledged.

It wasn't?

So, if we merge our timeline with the '06 timeline, he would be called as a troll according to your definition of 'troll'. And yet, the ending result is completely different! It's funny how time can change people.

Or it's because he wasn't fun. You're amusing.

I beg to differ.

What, do you want to officially concede instead?

And yet you act as if this is 100% fan-fiction. Exaggerating doesn't increase the level of your validity, you know.

You are asserting connections between things that have no connection. YOU, good sir, are the one engaging in exaggeration.

You got ... Oh, wait. Never mind.

Blatant Red Herring noted and held against you. If it's not a theory, then what is it?

[Serapy]

Then why bother fighting against this opinion?

I'm not. I'm fighting against you asserting it as fact.

It's like Good vs Evil. People can choose to be Good or Evil. You can apply the same thing to this.

I read VIII and I was then wronged by someone else for getting something wrong due to new-lol-canonised information from Ultimania. This time, I am told to read the Ultimania's translations and then I must change my view on VIII as a whole.

But this does not mean the Ultimania is invalid.

It's not that it's invalid. It's just annoying and stupid. What was Square's true intention of putting Japanese on Ultimania?

There's something wrong about this process. It's not my fault that I've got something wrong. It's Square's fault.

Yes, it IS your fault you got something wrong. They hold the information. That's their perogative.

It's not my fault that I don't understand Japanese. Therefore, it's not my fault that I got something wrong.

Ultimania is only exclusive to Japanese. If Square was so desperate to modify something in FF games and thus re-clarify our knowledges, they could of have added multi-languages support, but they didn't.

Again, this doesn't make it invalid at all.

Whether it's invalid or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is why Square targetted at Japanese audience. Square feeds the Japanese new information, not the West.

So, what could this mean? It could mean that Ultimania is not actually very important to people who don't understand Japanese. They have left us the original games in English and that's what matters.

No, the original games, and the international versions, are in Japanese. Square made the games and the Ultimanias in Japanese.

They gave us English VIII and that's it.
If they wanted to re-clarify the plot or whatever, they could of have added English or other languages. But they didn't, so it means... that it's not important.

It's completely wrong to use Ultimania as a whole to disprove something. 99% of the original plot and 1% Ultimania are fine, depending on the context.

It's not wrong in the slightest for a writer to release additional information regarding their series that disproves assumptions made about it. You just don't like it because it kills your pet theory.

I didn't create R=U. A mass amount of people did.

I never declared it to be invalid.

Yes you did. You are saying it doesn't count.

It's still better to focus on the orginal games, not Ultimanias.
Orginal games don't include mistakes, only Ultimanias do.

Partly. DigiCube Co was the company that released and published VIII Ultimania.

It wasn't my fault that my perspective contradicted the Ultimania.

You keep talking about 'not your fault' like it makes any difference. Your perspective is contradicted by the Ultimania. It takes precedence.

If Square added English to Ultimanias, it could make a bigger difference. Why didn't they market it worldwide? That's pretty good money, if you ask me.

There wasn't evidence regarding his sexuality in the series. And all of a sudden, Rowling claims that he's gay. That's the whole point.

And this contradicts nothing in the books. It is totally Rowling's right to do this.

It did contradict some people views.

Still relevant.

No, because it was an error made in the translation of the game's manual.

It's not just the manual. That's more than one error.

Thier mistakes have proved something. Therefore, it's better to focus on the original games and not to focus on the external sources.

They prove nothing, and the manual IS an external source by your logic. Not that the Ultimania is any more an 'external source' than J.K. Rowling is for Harry Potter.

Hmmm, the manual and the game were created at the same time. So, this manual doesn't qualify as an external source.

Addressing the explanation as to why the Kefka case is a contradiction is irrelevant. We are on the VIII board.

No it's not, because you listed it in the first place as an example of contradiction making official sources unreliable. So either concede this point or substantiate it.

Are you implying that the external sources are 100% reliable when in fact they have made some errors?

It's not wise to 100% trust them after they have made these mistakes.

Mistakes you claim they have made but have not substantiated, and do not justify outright disregarding the Ultimania as you would like to.

Go do some research, you'll find better information than I've explained in my previous post. No, don't ask me to explain 'cos I'm not claiming any theory.

According to your definition of 'troll', Lychon was definitely a troll. And yet, you gave up on him. See below for more explanation.

I didn't give up on him, I stopped responding to him because his long winded responses on nothing weren't even amusing to respond to any longer. Besides, he got banned immediately thereafter, making any response utterly redundant.

His English is far better than mine, though.

Four Greek persons < One Greek person? Really?

One greek person we know exists > Four greek people you say exist.
If you could provide evidence they exist and they say what you say they do, it would be different.

Latin - Is this Latin?
Is this modern or ancient Greek?

LOL! Their replies include words that are... striking, considering that they have never played VIII before.

They are both the same thing in terms of inaccuratity.

No. They aren't. One is 'They is doing something wrong', the other is 'adekjh wdkjuhfd fin ekfhsd'

Incorrect grammar = bad
Misspelt words = bad

So, they are the same!

So, if someone miserably adds something and that new data, which is deemed to be out of the ordinary, becomes equally as important as the orginal games? Right.

IF that data makes it through the editing process, then yes, it will be valid until it is overruled. That is how canon works.

I don't believe in canon, my friend.

It's possible. Impress your boss and he probably will approve it.

In which case, 'your boss' being the creator/s of the original game, will know if it it in line with their vision for the game, and approve or disapprove on that basis.

If it's something that will interest players, why not?

Anybody can have any job.

Can you be hired for this job?

It's impossible for someone to get a job that he/she desires?

I was just hypothesizing a scenario.

The likelihood of which is very very slim.

If nobody were greedy, then I could see your point. There are other factors to consider, too.

Not everybody will put the same identical characters.

But your Japanese would be random nonsense and maybe the occasional real word interspersed.

So, Square randomly adds text that serves no purpose and yet it's similar to one word that is relevant to the plot. That's one hell of a crazy coincidence, yo.

You're now claiming that Squall is linked with lions.

His name is Leonhart. His theme song is 'Maybe I'm a Lion'. His emblem is a lion.

So, in your logic, the lions on Ultimecia's castle are connected with Squall, too.

So, if Ultimecia has them on her castle, and considering that the visible comparison of between these visual images does exist, it must be true.

WHAT must be true? That the image you showed is relevant to FFVIII? That does not follow.

That his lions being connected with each other is true.

Squall having an obvious link to Lions does not substantiate your claim that that image has anything to do with FFVIII.

In your logic, his last name is not an obvious link with Lion, then.
Don't ever mention Kingdom Hearts. It's not connected with VIII.

If this thing has no possibility of drawing any conclusion, then what's the purpose of its existence when it, in fact, keeps showing up in more than one instance within the game? Why would the developers waste time on designing things that absolutely mean nothing?

Also, when you look at one thing, it's not a conclusion. A conclusion usually occurs at the end of the thinking process.

How does 'this thing' keep showing up? And yes, you are drawing conclusions from this thing.
As for why they'd design something without meaning 'It looks cool.'

If it keeps showing up in the game, it doesn't necessarily make it cool. There are too many things in the game that are already cool.

I shall accept this statement as meaningless.

But it's not meaningless. It's a referrer to my response to your identical statement elsewhere.

It is meaningless. Whatever you're agruing that's not relevant to VIII is always meaningless.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/final-fan...ml#post1757460

Your excuse for not replying to him back is off topic? Well, well! Most of the things in our arguments are mostly off-topic as well!

You're partly responsible for making him get banned. And that administrator... Yeah.

Are you trying to DEFEND Lychon, Serapy? And are you saying that these discussions, which are talking about your claims, are off topic from the threads, which are about your claims?

Other than him criticising your English, I agree with some of his points based on VIII.

Your logic is so compelling. Back in '06, the phenomenon of 'trolls' wasn't widely acknowledged.

It wasn't?

I don't recall seeing people calling each other trolls upon my registration on this forum.

I beg to differ.

What, do you want to officially concede instead?

What are we talking about again?

And yet you act as if this is 100% fan-fiction. Exaggerating doesn't increase the level of your validity, you know.

You are asserting connections between things that have no connection. YOU, good sir, are the one engaging in exaggeration.

How do you know that they have no connection? Is there any secret dialogue that I'm missing?

You got ... Oh, wait. Never mind.

Blatant Red Herring noted and held against you. If it's not a theory, then what is it?

Interpretation.

[Ryushikaze]

It's like Good vs Evil. People can choose to be Good or Evil. You can apply the same thing to this.

Okay. I apply that I'm good and you're evil.
Seriously though, how 'good v evil' at all like 'fighting against you asserting it as fact'

It's not that it's invalid. It's just annoying and stupid. What was Square's true intention of putting Japanese on Ultimania?

To reveal more information about the game for the audience most interested and likely to purchase, the Japanese.

It's not my fault that I don't understand Japanese. Therefore, it's not my fault that I got something wrong.

You're incredibly on the defensive, here. Your fault or not, you got something wrong because you didn't have all the information. That DOESN'T make the additional info invalid.

Whether it's invalid or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is why Square targetted at Japanese audience. Square feeds the Japanese new information, not the West.

Which again, makes the information no less valid, and no less crushing to your 'interpretations'

They gave us English VIII and that's it.
If they wanted to re-clarify the plot or whatever, they could of have added English or other languages. But they didn't, so it means... that it's not important.

No. That's like saying if Lucas released a vital bit of SW in English only, it wouldn't matter because he didn't release it in Czech.
It's no less important because they didn't release it in every language.
You just don't like it because it kills your pet 'interpretation.'

I didn't create R=U. A mass amount of people did.

Which makes IT no more valid and the Ultimania no less valid for squashing it.

It's still better to focus on the orginal games, not Ultimanias.
Orginal games don't include mistakes, only Ultimanias do.

"This guy are sick"
"So that's how you'll fool them" "So that's how you fooled them"
The original games DO contain mistakes, and you have YET to substantiate that the Ultis have mistakes, and are essentially SPECIAL PLEADING to disregard this evidence you don't like to protect R=U.

If Square added English to Ultimanias, it could make a bigger difference. Why didn't they market it worldwide? That's pretty good money, if you ask me.

IF they had the money to release it, IF it sold well in the English speaking world.
But either way, it's irrelevant. They released it. IT COUNTS.

It did contradict some people views.

And those people can just go cry in a corner. Their views are not sacrosanct and more important than the creator's story.

It's not just the manual. That's more than one error.

So where else than the manual and what are these 'other errors?'

Hmmm, the manual and the game were created at the same time. So, this manual doesn't qualify as an external source.

The english language manual was not made at the same time as the original japanese language game.

Are you implying that the external sources are 100% reliable when in fact they have made some errors?

Are you making a gorram red herring AND really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking. to try and distract me from the gorram demand for evidence I just made. HOW IS KEFKA'S BIRTHPLACE A CONTRADICTION? SUBSTANTIATE THIS ASSERTION OR CONCEDE IT AS A CONTRADICTION.
Or do I need to be MORE blunt?

Go do some research, you'll find better information than I've explained in my previous post. No, don't ask me to explain 'cos I'm not claiming any theory.

But you ARE making assertions, and those DO need to be substantiated. And again, I REFUSE to do you work for you.

His English is far better than mine, though.

Which is in fact irrelevant to him not being fun, being off topic, and getting banned almost immediately thereafter.

Latin - Is this Latin?
Is this modern or ancient Greek?

LOL! Their replies include words that are... striking, considering that they have never played VIII before.

Serapy, they're saying it's nonsense too.

Incorrect grammar = bad
Misspelt words = bad

So, they are the same!

It's not 'misspelled words' it's 'not words at all' which is worse than bad grammar.

I don't believe in canon, my friend.

You don't have to. That's how it works. You have no say.

If it's something that will interest players, why not?

Because it goes against your boss- the creator's- vision.

It's impossible for someone to get a job that he/she desires?

Sometimes, it is.

If nobody were greedy, then I could see your point. There are other factors to consider, too.

Yes, like your complete Japanese illiteracy.

So, Square randomly adds text that serves no purpose and yet it's similar to one word that is relevant to the plot. That's one hell of a crazy coincidence, yo.

'Dummy Text' is a common shortcut, Serapy.

So, in your logic, the lions on Ultimecia's castle are connected with Squall, too.

Nope. They aren't linked with Squall. Squall is linked with lions. Not all Lions are linked with Squall.

That his lions being connected with each other is true.

'His' lions? Squall is linked with lions, but not all lions are linked with Squall.

In your logic, his last name is not an obvious link with Lion, then.Don't ever mention Kingdom Hearts. It's not connected with VIII.

No, in my logic, the name meaning 'Heart of a Lion' is an obvious link to him being represented by lions. But this does not mean he is represented by ALL lions.

If it keeps showing up in the game, it doesn't necessarily make it cool. There are too many things in the game that are already cool.

So there's a limit on cool?

It is meaningless. Whatever you're agruing that's not relevant to VIII is always meaningless.

Then all of your threads are meaningless, because none of them are actually relevant to the plot of FFVIII.

Other than him criticising your English, I agree with some of his points based on VIII.

So, you DO agree that you're off topic, then?
And he was incorrect in his criticism of my English.

I don't recall seeing people calling each other trolls upon my registration on this forum.

That doesn't mean trolls weren't well known three years ago. Trolls were common over a decade ago.

What are we talking about again?

You really don't remember, do you?

How do you know that they have no connection? Is there any secret dialogue that I'm missing?

You certainly aren't SUBSTANTIATING any connection.

Interpretation.

Which still needs to be supported, otherwise it is meaningless.

[McLovin']

It is meaningless. Whatever you're agruing that's not relevant to VIII is always meaningless.

Then all of your threads are meaningless, because none of them are actually relevant to the plot of FFVIII.

Hoho, pwned.

[-kuri-]

I spent the last ten minutes skimming through Serapy's imaginative theories and I laughed through all of it. Mainly because at some point in the topic, Ryushikaze shuts him down.

Look man, I have to admit, in some of your theories, you might be on to something...but in others, like the rising sun or whatever, you are just looking a little too much into small, unimportant detail. And this one...might be one of them. The birds are just trippy, man. They are just there to give you seizures.

[Serapy]

It's like Good vs Evil. People can choose to be Good or Evil. You can apply the same thing to this.

Okay. I apply that I'm good and you're evil.

Bingo! That was a good example of expressing an opinion. I think and you think differently. Sharing this on the board doesn't still void the meaning of expressing an opinion.

Seriously though, how 'good v evil' at all like 'fighting against you asserting it as fact'

I have never asserted anything as fact.

It's not that it's invalid. It's just annoying and stupid. What was Square's true intention of putting Japanese on Ultimania?

To reveal more information about the game for the audience most interested and likely to purchase, the Japanese.

Which means that it's not important for the West to gather new information from something that don't speak thier languages.

It's not my fault that I don't understand Japanese. Therefore, it's not my fault that I got something wrong.

You're incredibly on the defensive, here. Your fault or not, you got something wrong because you didn't have all the information. That DOESN'T make the additional info invalid.

It doesn't make the information more or less invalid. There's a reason why Square doesn't release it in various languages.

Whether it's invalid or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is why Square targetted at Japanese audience. Square feeds the Japanese new information, not the West.

Which again, makes the information no less valid, and no less crushing to your 'interpretations'

Where did I say that it was invalid?

They gave us English VIII and that's it.
If they wanted to re-clarify the plot or whatever, they could of have added English or other languages. But they didn't, so it means... that it's not important.

No. That's like saying if Lucas released a vital bit of SW in English only, it wouldn't matter because he didn't release it in Czech.
It's no less important because they didn't release it in every language.
You just don't like it because it kills your pet 'interpretation.'

-Square releases this new information in an external source for the Japanese.
-Non-Japanese players are unaware of this because of two reasons:
--They don't understand Japanese.
--Ultimanias are not that very recognised in the West. This adds 1 to unawareness.

They play VIII and that's it. That was Square's intention. If it wasn't thier intention, they would of have made Ultimania in various languages. OR re-make VIII.

The players are curious as to what's the difference between thier language in VIII and Japanese due to mis-translations. Players know this because they know that the Japanese developers made the game.

Ultimania on the other hand, not so much.

I didn't create R=U. A mass amount of people did.

Which makes IT no more valid and the Ultimania no less valid for squashing it.

You repeating that statement really boils down to conservatism pretty much. Saying that the Ultimania is invalid wasn't the main intention of my argument.

It's still better to focus on the orginal games, not Ultimanias.
Orginal games don't include mistakes, only Ultimanias do.

"This guy are sick"
"So that's how you'll fool them" "So that's how you fooled them"
The original games DO contain mistakes, and you have YET to substantiate that the Ultis have mistakes, and are essentially SPECIAL PLEADING to disregard this evidence you don't like to protect R=U.

I'm talking about the plot. Not the translations.
I've already substantiated that the Ultimanias include some mistakes.

If Square added English to Ultimanias, it could make a bigger difference. Why didn't they market it worldwide? That's pretty good money, if you ask me.

IF they had the money to release it, IF it sold well in the English speaking world.

They ain't that poor.

But either way, it's irrelevant. They released it. IT COUNTS.

Of course it counts for the Japanese.

It did contradict some people views.

And those people can just go cry in a corner. Their views are not sacrosanct and more important than the creator's story.

Hmm... Imagine me being a creator. Imagine me writing this story and releases it now. People hear about it, they love it and express thier views with other fans.
After hearing thier interpretations myself as the creator. God! I hate these interpretations, how sissy! That wasn't what I expected.
How to change that? Easy, I'd go and make a public announcement and say, "He's gay." Problem solved!

What I'm saying is that once when you create something and release it to the public. Assuming that it has no plot errors, leave it at that! Don't ever modify it in the future. Don't ever modify it just 'cos you don't like your fans' interpretations. You write a story for the audience, not for yourself.

It's not just the manual. That's more than one error.

So where else than the manual and what are these 'other errors?'

I've just told you. AC and the Ultimania.

Hmmm, the manual and the game were created at the same time. So, this manual doesn't qualify as an external source.

The english language manual was not made at the same time as the original japanese language game.

The English language manual was made at the same time as its English-language game.

Are you implying that the external sources are 100% reliable when in fact they have made some errors?

Are you making a gorram red herring AND really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking. to try and distract me from the gorram demand for evidence I just made. HOW IS KEFKA'S BIRTHPLACE A CONTRADICTION? SUBSTANTIATE THIS ASSERTION OR CONCEDE IT AS A CONTRADICTION.
Or do I need to be MORE blunt?

So, your defence is that the Ultimanias are perfect?

Go do some research, you'll find better information than I've explained in my previous post. No, don't ask me to explain 'cos I'm not claiming any theory.

But you ARE making assertions, and those DO need to be substantiated. And again, I REFUSE to do you work for you.

I'm not making any assertion.

His English is far better than mine, though.

Which is in fact irrelevant to him not being fun, being off topic, and getting banned almost immediately thereafter.

So, you're admitting that you criticising my English was off-topic?

Latin - Is this Latin?
Is this modern or ancient Greek?

LOL! Their replies include words that are... striking, considering that they have never played VIII before.

Serapy, they're saying it's nonsense too.

Way to exaggerate. Some of them are saying it's nonsence, true, but look at thier guesses.

Incorrect grammar = bad
Misspelt words = bad

So, they are the same!

It's not 'misspelled words' it's 'not words at all' which is worse than bad grammar.

Both are essentially worse, since you can't understand a word or can't understand a sentence.

I don't believe in canon, my friend.

You don't have to. That's how it works. You have no say.

A thing separated from another thing but both share the same thing isn't 100% canon.

If it's something that will interest players, why not?

Because it goes against your boss- the creator's- vision.

Really? Then these companies would be less corrupted than they already are.

It's impossible for someone to get a job that he/she desires?

Sometimes, it is.

Not if you have a great level of motivation.

If nobody were greedy, then I could see your point. There are other factors to consider, too.

Yes, like your complete Japanese illiteracy.

I'm going to have to assume that you don't understand Japanese, too. So, what are you saying is a perfect example of hypocrisy.

So, Square randomly adds text that serves no purpose and yet it's similar to one word that is relevant to the plot. That's one hell of a crazy coincidence, yo.

'Dummy Text' is a common shortcut, Serapy.

Shortcuts can't exist without something, such as any reason or meaning.

So, in your logic, the lions on Ultimecia's castle are connected with Squall, too.

Nope. They aren't linked with Squall. Squall is linked with lions. Not all Lions are linked with Squall.

Are you implying that Ultimecia pulling Griever out of Squall's head is not connected with himself?

When Griever came into existence, it's still connected with Squall. It's very possible that the lions on her Castle are connected with Squall. How can the symbolism of bravery and loyalty fit Ultimecia? Unless she's Rinoa, or Ultimecia showing bravery and loyalty in the name of her dead husband.

That his lions being connected with each other is true.

'His' lions? Squall is linked with lions, but not all lions are linked with Squall.

That's not true.

In your logic, his last name is not an obvious link with Lion, then.Don't ever mention Kingdom Hearts. It's not connected with VIII.

No, in my logic, the name meaning 'Heart of a Lion' is an obvious link to him being represented by lions. But this does not mean he is represented by ALL lions.

Lion is a symbol of bravery and loyalty. So, saying that not all lions are connected with himself sort of defeats his symbol of a lion in the first place.

If it keeps showing up in the game, it doesn't necessarily make it cool. There are too many things in the game that are already cool.

So there's a limit on cool?

If everything in VIII was for bein' cool, it will have a lot of plot errors.

It is meaningless. Whatever you're agruing that's not relevant to VIII is always meaningless.

Then all of your threads are meaningless, because none of them are actually relevant to the plot of FFVIII.

Everything what I've shown here (e.g. dialogues, events, visual images, etc) are actually relevant to VIII. Therefore, what I did wasn't meaningless. True, I've mentioned some tiny information that doesn't actually exist in VIII; and thus irrelevant. But that doesn't mean meaningless as a whole. Way to exaggerate, brother.

You, on the other hand, criticising my English was irrelevant and meaningless because it's not about VIII.

Other than him criticising your English, I agree with some of his points based on VIII.

So, you DO agree that you're off topic, then?
And he was incorrect in his criticism of my English.

Whenever you feel that something or someone is incorrect, you would usually sense the great temptation to fight against it.

I don't recall seeing people calling each other trolls upon my registration on this forum.

That doesn't mean trolls weren't well known three years ago. Trolls were common over a decade ago.

Not in this forum section.

What are we talking about again?

You really don't remember, do you?

Our arguments are leading to various things. I don't think that is normal.

How do you know that they have no connection? Is there any secret dialogue that I'm missing?

You certainly aren't SUBSTANTIATING any connection.

Then we're getting no where.

Interpretation.

Which still needs to be supported, otherwise it is meaningless.

I just don't know why pointing at visual images aren't enough to be supported. Funny how dialogues are the easiest thing to be supported.

[Darth Cid]

Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his credibility level?

IT'S...less than 9.

[Ryushikaze]

Bingo! That was a good example of expressing an opinion. I think and you think differently. Sharing this on the board doesn't still void the meaning of expressing an opinion.

I was being facetious.
And if it IS opinion, it is baseless. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got them and they're not worth :bou::bou::bou::bou:.

I have never asserted anything as fact.

That is exactly what you're doing. You are saying there is meaning in symbolism. That these things are present in FF8.

Which means that it's not important for the West to gather new information from something that don't speak thier languages.

Which means they did not have the capital to risk a release in another language of a book tat they weren't sure would sell. It does not mean 'it's not important' or doesn't count or any of your excuses based on it only being in one language.

It doesn't make the information more or less invalid. There's a reason why Square doesn't release it in various languages.

It doesn't make the information invalid at all. Your crying about it only being in Japanese changes nothing.

Where did I say that it was invalid?

You've been trying to say it's invalid, if not using that exact word- since the subject came up.

-Square releases this new information in an external source for the Japanese.
-Non-Japanese players are unaware of this because of two reasons:
--They don't understand Japanese.
--Ultimanias are not that very recognised in the West. This adds 1 to unawareness.

Leading to them not being likely to sell, making Square have less reason to risk them not selling and wasting money.

They play VIII and that's it. That was Square's intention. If it wasn't thier intention, they would of have made Ultimania in various languages. OR re-make VIII.

The players are curious as to what's the difference between thier language in VIII and Japanese due to mis-translations. Players know this because they know that the Japanese developers made the game.

Ultimania on the other hand, not so much.

The players aren't curious about Ultimanias? Or Ultimanias aren't made by the developers? Because if the latter, they WERE.

You repeating that statement really boils down to conservatism pretty much.

Under what gorram definition of 'conservatism' are you using?

Saying that the Ultimania is invalid wasn't the main intention of my argument.

Yes, yes it is. Because YOU want to ignore the information that makes your precious R=U nonsense impossible, saying that it doesn't count because of all these random reasons.

I'm talking about the plot. Not the translations.

TRANSLATIONS INTRODUCE ERRORS INTO THE PLOT.

I've already substantiated that the Ultimanias include some mistakes.

No. YOU HAVE NOT.
You have asserted that an error made in the english language manual holds more precedence than every Japanese source, ever, so you can pretend it's an error in the Ulti.
You've patently REFUSED to substantiate claims to this regard, even when I outright DEMANDED you do so.
CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

They ain't that poor.

'The Spirits Within' nearly bankrupted them.
QED.

Of course it counts for the Japanese.

It counts, PERIOD.

Hmm... Imagine me being a creator. Imagine me writing this story and releases it now. People hear about it, they love it and express thier views with other fans.
After hearing thier interpretations myself as the creator. God! I hate these interpretations, how sissy! That wasn't what I expected.
How to change that? Easy, I'd go and make a public announcement and say, "He's gay." Problem solved!

What I'm saying is that once when you create something and release it to the public. Assuming that it has no plot errors, leave it at that! Don't ever modify it in the future. Don't ever modify it just 'cos you don't like your fans' interpretations. You write a story for the audience, not for yourself.

Imagine me not caring about your hypothetical, which is about as compelling as a wet tissue.
You write a story, feel free to NEVER EVER RELEASE NEW INFORMATION EVER. Or sequels. Those might also contradict the precious interpretations.
Me, other writers? We'll risk crushing a few interpretations along the way. It's our prerogative.

I've just told you. AC and the Ultimania.

And you have yet to explain WHAT THESE ERRORS ARE.

The English language manual was made at the same time as its English-language game.

And it got information from the Japanese version wrong. So I'ma trust the Original Language source.

So, your defence is that the Ultimanias are perfect?

CONCESSION GODDAMN ACCEPTED.
RED HERRING NOTED.
Let me be explicit. I DON'T THINK THE ORIGINAL GAME IS PERFECT. Especially not the translation.

I'm not making any assertion.

You are LYING or IGNORANT. CHOOSE.

So, you're admitting that you criticising my English was off-topic?

No. I'm saying his English is irrelevant to the reason why I did not respond to him further in that topic.

Way to exaggerate. Some of them are saying it's nonsence, true, but look at thier guesses.

They're ALL saying it's complete nonsense, except for the one word, which you never spell that way. You're focusing on them saying this one word is sorta close to a real world and ignoring them saying the rest is gibberish.

Both are essentially worse, since you can't understand a word or can't understand a sentence.

... 1. "Both are worse" than WHAT?
2. THERE ARE NO WORDS TO UNDERSTAND.

A thing separated from another thing but both share the same thing isn't 100% canon.

I refuse to even try and parse this til your grammar and vocabulary improves. Even I have limits on what I will attempt to comprehend, and you're well in the red zone.

All I can figure out is that you're asserting separation means things less canon, which makes no gorram sense.

Really? Then these companies would be less corrupted than they already are.

A claim you base on?

Not if you have a great level of motivation.

Motivation means jack with no skills or experience.

I'm going to have to assume that you don't understand Japanese, too. So, what are you saying is a perfect example of hypocrisy.

You know what they say about assuming. Only in this case, I DO understand Japanese, so it only makes it out of you. But even if I couldn't, it wouldn't make me a hypocrite at all. It would mean I couldn't get a Job at Enix Japan either.

Shortcuts can't exist without something, such as any reason or meaning.

Yes, yes they can. 'The newspaper needs text on it' 'slap this on' is about as far as reason or meaning behind dummy text or most other shortcuts gets.

Are you implying that Ultimecia pulling Griever out of Squall's head is not connected with himself?

You are equivocating. Griever is not any random lion. He is a specific entity with a stated link to Squall. You're just generalizing this to be every lion ever.

When Griever came into existence, it's still connected with Squall. It's very possible that the lions on her Castle are connected with Squall. How can the symbolism of bravery and loyalty fit Ultimecia? Unless she's Rinoa, or Ultimecia showing bravery and loyalty in the name of her dead husband.

Or they are a decoration common to castles.

That's not true.

Yes it is. To assert otherwise is just absurd.

Lion is a symbol of bravery and loyalty. So, saying that not all lions are connected with himself sort of defeats his symbol of a lion in the first place.

No, because it's entirely possible for a Lion to not be symbolically connected with Squall.

If everything in VIII was for bein' cool, it will have a lot of plot errors.

You say this based on?

Everything what I've shown here (e.g. dialogues, events, visual images, etc) are actually relevant to VIII. Therefore, what I did wasn't meaningless. True, I've mentioned some tiny information that doesn't actually exist in VIII; and thus irrelevant. But that doesn't mean meaningless as a whole. Way to exaggerate, brother.

Nope. NOTHING you've asserted here is actually relevant to FF8.You ASSERT it is, but it's not.

You, on the other hand, criticising my English was irrelevant and meaningless because it's not about VIII.

But it is relevant to this discussion because you are incoherent rather often in this thread, and it certainly damages your credibility when you cannot understand others or make yourself be understood. It makes your chances of understanding the game all the slimmer.

Whenever you feel that something or someone is incorrect, you would usually sense the great temptation to fight against it.

So, you DO agree that you're off topic, then?
Not that I didn't fight against him. I quoted the dictionary at him and he refused to admit it invalidated his argument.

Not in this forum section.

Perhaps people weren't as open with their thoughts, but I assure you there were trolls and people thought of as trolls.

Our arguments are leading to various things. I don't think that is normal.

1. It is normal.
2. You DON''T remember.
3. You cannot read the thread to even try and see what we were talking about.

Then we're getting no where.

Because you're not taking it anywhere, like you need to.

I just don't know why pointing at visual images aren't enough to be supported. Funny how dialogues are the easiest thing to be supported.

Because those images don't support what you say they support.

[Serapy]

Bingo! That was a good example of expressing an opinion. I think and you think differently. Sharing this on the board doesn't still void the meaning of expressing an opinion.

I was being facetious.
And if it IS opinion, it is baseless. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got them and they're not worth .

You know what's ironic? Lychon uses these a lot, too.

Actually, it's not completely baseless. I copy a thing from the game (which is a fact) and paste into here, and then I express an opinion on that thing. That is not completely baseless. Way to exaggerate!

I have never asserted anything as fact.

That is exactly what you're doing. You are saying there is meaning in symbolism. That these things are present in FF8.

No, I have never once said "This is tehh truthzz", "Yo, it's true. Whatever you're saying is false" or something to that effect.

I express my view, and all of a sudden, you'd assume that I'm trying to assert it as fact. So, that's your fault, not mine!

Which means that it's not important for the West to gather new information from something that don't speak thier languages.

Which means they did not have the capital to risk a release in another language of a book tat they weren't sure would sell. It does not mean 'it's not important' or doesn't count or any of your excuses based on it only being in one language.

Then they are blind, because VII and VIII were sold very well in the West.

It doesn't make the information more or less invalid. There's a reason why Square doesn't release it in various languages.

It doesn't make the information invalid at all. Your crying about it only being in Japanese changes nothing.

It does change something. Look at this thread, it's adding up. That doesn't mean it changes nothing.

Where did I say that it was invalid?

You've been trying to say it's invalid, if not using that exact word- since the subject came up.

No, I didn't.

-Square releases this new information in an external source for the Japanese.
-Non-Japanese players are unaware of this because of two reasons:
--They don't understand Japanese.
--Ultimanias are not that very recognised in the West. This adds 1 to unawareness.

Leading to them not being likely to sell, making Square have less reason to risk them not selling and wasting money.

That's not true. Considering that they are a rich company.

They play VIII and that's it. That was Square's intention. If it wasn't thier intention, they would of have made Ultimania in various languages. OR re-make VIII.

The players are curious as to what's the difference between thier language in VIII and Japanese due to mis-translations. Players know this because they know that the Japanese developers made the game.

Ultimania on the other hand, not so much.

The players aren't curious about Ultimanias? Or Ultimanias aren't made by the developers? Because if the latter, they WERE.

No, they aren't.

You repeating that statement really boils down to conservatism pretty much.

Under what gorram definition of 'conservatism' are you using?

conservatism noun
/kənˈsɜː.və.tɪ.zəm/US pronunciation symbol/-ˈsɝː.və.t ̬ɪ-/ n [U]
the quality of often not liking or trusting change, especially sudden change

Saying that the Ultimania is invalid wasn't the main intention of my argument.

Yes, yes it is. Because YOU want to ignore the information that makes your precious R=U nonsense impossible, saying that it doesn't count because of all these random reasons.

No, it's not. 'Awareness' and 'invalid' has two different meanings.

I'm talking about the plot. Not the translations.

TRANSLATIONS INTRODUCE ERRORS INTO THE PLOT.

Not really. For example, Ultimecia saying 'K', instead of 'C', doesn't affect the plot.

I've already substantiated that the Ultimanias include some mistakes.

No. YOU HAVE NOT.

Yes, I have.

You have asserted that an error made in the english language manual holds more precedence than every Japanese source, ever, so you can pretend it's an error in the Ulti.

AC in Japanese supports this.

You've patently REFUSED to substantiate claims to this regard, even when I outright DEMANDED you do so.
CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

I already have. Talking about VII is irrelevant here, if we want to talk about it, let's move to the VII board and talk from there on.

You cannot deny the fact that Ultimanias include some errors.

They ain't that poor.

'The Spirits Within' nearly bankrupted them.
QED.

That's irrelevant. The Spirits Within =/= Ultimania.

Besides, it's much cheaper to produce a Ultimania than a movie.

Of course it counts for the Japanese.

It counts, PERIOD.

It counts for the Japanese. Square created it for them, not non-japanese.

Hmm... Imagine me being a creator. Imagine me writing this story and releases it now. People hear about it, they love it and express thier views with other fans.
After hearing thier interpretations myself as the creator. God! I hate these interpretations, how sissy! That wasn't what I expected.
How to change that? Easy, I'd go and make a public announcement and say, "He's gay." Problem solved!

What I'm saying is that once when you create something and release it to the public. Assuming that it has no plot errors, leave it at that! Don't ever modify it in the future. Don't ever modify it just 'cos you don't like your fans' interpretations. You write a story for the audience, not for yourself.

Imagine me not caring about your hypothetical, which is about as compelling as a wet tissue.
You write a story, feel free to NEVER EVER RELEASE NEW INFORMATION EVER. Or sequels. Those might also contradict the precious interpretations.

It doesn't matter if my story will contradict my fans' interpretations or not. Let them decide it. This story is created to show them, not for myself. I create it to impress them, not create it to impress myself. It's very plausible that my story will lead to various interpretations, anyway.

Creating sequels or whatever to disprove these interpretations will show how selfish I am.

Sure, you may not care about my story, but I'm sure someone else will.

Me, other writers? We'll risk crushing a few interpretations along the way. It's our prerogative.

That's your opinion.

I've just told you. AC and the Ultimania.

And you have yet to explain WHAT THESE ERRORS ARE.

I already have.

The English language manual was made at the same time as its English-language game.

And it got information from the Japanese version wrong. So I'ma trust the Original Language source.

So, you're admitting that external sources don't count? AC in Japanese shows this. AC is an external source, just like the Ultimania.

So, your defence is that the Ultimanias are perfect?

CONCESSION GODDAMN ACCEPTED.
RED HERRING NOTED.

That statement doesn't prove that the Ultimania is perfect.

Let me be explicit. I DON'T THINK THE ORIGINAL GAME IS PERFECT. Especially not the translation.

The VIII Japanese version is not perfect?

I'm not making any assertion.

You are LYING or IGNORANT. CHOOSE.

You've just assumed that I'm asserting anything as fact, which is not true. Otherwise I'd admit it.

So, you're admitting that you criticising my English was off-topic?

No. I'm saying his English is irrelevant to the reason why I did not respond to him further in that topic.

So, it seems that your temptation is overpowering yourself to keep arguing with me. You knew that this is going no where, and yet you keep doing it. I can say the same thing for myself. Oh, dear. The aliens are probably laughing at this.

Way to exaggerate. Some of them are saying it's nonsence, true, but look at thier guesses.

They're ALL saying it's complete nonsense, except for the one word, which you never spell that way. You're focusing on them saying this one word is sorta close to a real world and ignoring them saying the rest is gibberish.

They have never played VIII and yet they said identical words, how can that not raise some suspicion?

Both are essentially worse, since you can't understand a word or can't understand a sentence.

... 1. "Both are worse" than WHAT?
2. THERE ARE NO WORDS TO UNDERSTAND.

Both are worse than nothingness.

A thing separated from another thing but both share the same thing isn't 100% canon.

I refuse to even try and parse this til your grammar and vocabulary improves. Even I have limits on what I will attempt to comprehend, and you're well in the red zone.

All I can figure out is that you're asserting separation means things less canon, which makes no gorram sense.

VIII and Ultimania both share the same thing, but they are in different format. Therefore, not 100% canon.

Really? Then these companies would be less corrupted than they already are.

A claim you base on?

Money.

Not if you have a great level of motivation.

Motivation means jack with no skills or experience.

If you have got some motivation, you're likely to create skills or some experience.

I'm going to have to assume that you don't understand Japanese, too. So, what are you saying is a perfect example of hypocrisy.

You know what they say about assuming. Only in this case, I DO understand Japanese, so it only makes it out of you. But even if I couldn't, it wouldn't make me a hypocrite at all. It would mean I couldn't get a Job at Enix Japan either.

Then you have no motivation.

Shortcuts can't exist without something, such as any reason or meaning.

Yes, yes they can. 'The newspaper needs text on it' 'slap this on' is about as far as reason or meaning behind dummy text or most other shortcuts gets.

If it was a dummy text, it would be like just what you've said earlier, "fkufku agagag ekekekek wowowowo mamamamm kakakak kekeke woo ppeeeeeezz peko kmai odk sdijfsdfj siodjfosidj I9EW3DFKI KSDF MANj".

Are you implying that Ultimecia pulling Griever out of Squall's head is not connected with himself?

You are equivocating. Griever is not any random lion. He is a specific entity with a stated link to Squall. You're just generalizing this to be every lion ever.

I'm talking about lions in the plot. Of course, lions in the gameplay world (such as on world map) aren't connected.

When Griever came into existence, it's still connected with Squall. It's very possible that the lions on her Castle are connected with Squall. How can the symbolism of bravery and loyalty fit Ultimecia? Unless she's Rinoa, or Ultimecia showing bravery and loyalty in the name of her dead husband.

Or they are a decoration common to castles.

Why can't it be something else, not Lions? So, it must have a meaning.

That's not true.

Yes it is. To assert otherwise is just absurd.

No.

Lion is a symbol of bravery and loyalty. So, saying that not all lions are connected with himself sort of defeats his symbol of a lion in the first place.

No, because it's entirely possible for a Lion to not be symbolically connected with Squall.

It's been proven true that a lion represents bravery and loyalty. Squall himself said this in-game. He doesn't state a specific type of lion... he said it in general.

If everything in VIII was for bein' cool, it will have a lot of plot errors.

You say this based on?

Isn't it obvious?

Everything what I've shown here (e.g. dialogues, events, visual images, etc) are actually relevant to VIII. Therefore, what I did wasn't meaningless. True, I've mentioned some tiny information that doesn't actually exist in VIII; and thus irrelevant. But that doesn't mean meaningless as a whole. Way to exaggerate, brother.

Nope. NOTHING you've asserted here is actually relevant to FF8.You ASSERT it is, but it's not.

You're wrong.
I copy things from the game and paste them into here. How is that not relevant or related?

You, on the other hand, criticising my English was irrelevant and meaningless because it's not about VIII.

But it is relevant to this discussion because you are incoherent rather often in this thread, and it certainly damages your credibility when you cannot understand others or make yourself be understood. It makes your chances of understanding the game all the slimmer.

No, it's still not relevant. Criticising English =/= VIII.

Whenever you feel that something or someone is incorrect, you would usually sense the great temptation to fight against it.

So, you DO agree that you're off topic, then?
Not that I didn't fight against him. I quoted the dictionary at him and he refused to admit it invalidated his argument.

I'm taking about you. Not myself. I copy things from the game, so that's not off-topic.

Not in this forum section.

Perhaps people weren't as open with their thoughts, but I assure you there were trolls and people thought of as trolls.

Not in this forum section.

Our arguments are leading to various things. I don't think that is normal.

1. It is normal.
2. You DON''T remember.
3. You cannot read the thread to even try and see what we were talking about.

No, it's not normal. I create various views and you're arguing as if we are talking about one claim.

Then we're getting no where.

Because you're not taking it anywhere, like you need to.

It's getting no where simply because this is all about "let me look at your flaws" and discuss them. You started it, not me.

I just don't know why pointing at visual images aren't enough to be supported. Funny how dialogues are the easiest thing to be supported.

Because those images don't support what you say they support.

Yet you didn't provide evidence that they are actually meaningless.

[Ryushikaze]

You know what's ironic? Lychon uses these :bou: a lot, too.

... I'm not sure what's sadder, that you don't recognize a word filter, or that you're still harping on someone who's been banned for what, three years now.

Actually, it's not completely baseless. I copy a thing from the game (which is a fact) and paste into here, and then I express an opinion on that thing. That is not completely baseless. Way to exaggerate!

You express a baseless opinion.

No, I have never once said "This is tehh truthzz", "Yo, it's true. Whatever you're saying is false" or something to that effect.

You don't have to explicitly state 'this is true' to assert something as being so.

I express my view, and all of a sudden, you'd assume that I'm trying to assert it as fact. So, that's your fault, not mine!

Are you 'expressing' a view you think is not the case?

Then they are blind, because VII and VIII were sold very well in the West.

So did all the FF games, but not their merch does not sell nearly as well as the games in the states.

It does change something. Look at this thread, it's adding up. That doesn't mean it changes nothing.

You repeatedly asserting that it only being in Japanese matters does not mean anything is 'adding up.'

No, I didn't.

You want to disregard information within it as invalid.
Any protestations that you weren't will be given the lack of consideration they deserve.

That's not true. Considering that they are a rich company.

THE SPIRITS WITHIN.
QED.

No, they aren't.

They quite are.

conservatism noun
/kənˈsɜː.və.tɪ.zəm/US pronunciation symbol/-ˈsɝː.və.t ̬ɪ-/ n [U]
the quality of often not liking or trusting change, especially sudden change

And how am I the one not liking change, what with you being the one disliking additional information that kiboshes your precious notions? YOU are the one who dislikes change, child.

No, it's not. 'Awareness' and 'invalid' has two different meanings.

So your response to 'you not being aware does not make it invalid' is 'they have different meanings'
...
Glad you agree with me.
Please stop trying to disregard the Ultimania, then.

Not really. For example, Ultimecia saying 'K', instead of 'C', doesn't affect the plot.

No, but altering dialog DOES. Using words in the translation that have multiple vague meanings does, because it engenders confusion where non existed previously.
Also, Protip: There weren't Ks or Cs in the dialog to begin with.
What with it being written in Japanese.

Yes, I have.

No you have not, and I will thank you to stop lying about this issue.

AC in Japanese supports this.

I HAVE Advent Children in Japanese. In what way do you claim it supports the idea that Ultimanias are in error regarding Cloud's birthday? Because the Japanese website agrees that his birthday is the 11th of August, just like the Ultimania Omega, 10th Aniversary Ultimania, Crisis Core Ultimania, Prologue Book, and Reunion files- which incidentally is written in english- all say.
So please, good sir, SUPPORTS IT HOW.

I already have. Talking about VII is irrelevant here, if we want to talk about it, let's move to the VII board and talk from there on.

IT IS NOT IRRELEVANT BECAUSE IT IS BEING USED TO SUPPORT A CLAIM YOU HAVE MADE.
CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

You cannot deny the fact that Ultimanias include some errors.

YES I CAN. YOU HAVE FAILED TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS IDEA IN ANY FORM. CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

That's irrelevant. The Spirits Within =/= Ultimania.

Besides, it's much cheaper to produce a Ultimania than a movie.

Except that TSW means they have fewer resources to spend on anything other than their games. That, and books and merchandise are less guaranteed sources of income than their games.

It counts for the Japanese. Square created it for them, not non-japanese.

It created its games for the Japanese too. That's why the original games are in Japanese.

It doesn't matter if my story will contradict my fans' interpretations or not. Let them decide it. This story is created to show them, not for myself. I create it to impress them, not create it to impress myself. It's very plausible that my story will lead to various interpretations, anyway.

Creating sequels or whatever to disprove these interpretations will show how selfish I am.

Who ever said you'd be doing it intentionally? You always run the risk. Better never release one period.

Sure, you may not care about my story, but I'm sure someone else will.

And I'm sure they'll care about my story too, even after I upset their assumptions.

That's your opinion.

If this is merely my opinion, then yours is also an opinion, and unpopular one, and cannot be used to enforce an idea at all, meaning that it's COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS in your argument to allow you to ignore sequels, Ultimanias, and other sources of information.

I already have.

You have not.
REPEATED EVASION NOTED.
Concession accepted.

So, you're admitting that external sources don't count? AC in Japanese shows this. AC is an external source, just like the Ultimania.

AC in Japanese shows Cloud's Birthday to be the same as it is listed in the Ultimania and the Japanese instruction manual.

That statement doesn't prove that the Ultimania is perfect.

And THAT statement doesn't prove that your previous comment is anything but a red herring and set an absurd standard of evidence that you certainly aren't holding yourself to.

The VIII Japanese version is not perfect?

It does not give the whole of the information, so no.

You've just assumed that I'm asserting anything as fact, which is not true. Otherwise I'd admit it.

Ignorant, then.

So, it seems that your temptation is overpowering yourself to keep arguing with me. You knew that this is going no where, and yet you keep doing it. I can say the same thing for myself. Oh, dear. The aliens are probably laughing at this.

Better adjust your tinfoil hat, then, conspiracy theorist.
Again, making an assumptions as to my mental state are merely making an ass of you.

They have never played VIII and yet they said identical words, how can that not raise some suspicion?

Because they all said 'No, this is gibberish, except for sorta this, and it's wrong anyways.'

Both are worse than nothingness.

You have no idea what you're talking about any more, do you?

VIII and Ultimania both share the same thing, but they are in different format. Therefore, not 100% canon.

That's not how canon works, sunshine.

Money.

Just 'money'.
So they're corrupt from the get go. Even when making VIII.

If you have got some motivation, you're likely to create skills or some experience.

Not on the way to the interview, skippy.

Then you have no motivation.

I have no motivation because I understand Japanese?
Sense, you make none of it.

If it was a dummy text, it would be like just what you've said earlier, "fkufku agagag ekekekek wowowowo mamamamm kakakak kekeke woo ppeeeeeezz peko kmai odk sdijfsdfj siodjfosidj I9EW3DFKI KSDF MANj".

You do realize you've spelled 'gag', 'man', 'mama', and 'wow' in your string of dummy text? Hardly helping your idea that we'd never find real words or nearly so in dummy text.

I'm talking about lions in the plot. Of course, lions in the gameplay world (such as on world map) aren't connected.

So which 'lions in the plot' do you refer to, then? Just to remind you, scenery isn't automatically plot.

Why can't it be something else, not Lions? So, it must have a meaning.

Because Lions demonstrate the opulence and power of the person who owns the castle. They impress the visitors.

No.

Concession accepted.
Any time you respond to me with single word responses or nonsense, I'm just going to accept you as having forfeited the point you were trying to make.

It's been proven true that a lion represents bravery and loyalty. Squall himself said this in-game. He doesn't state a specific type of lion... he said it in general.

The lion is his symbol. That does not mean ALL lions are his symbol. Wings are Rinoa's symbol, but not all wings are her symbol.

Isn't it obvious?

Nope. Explain the logic underlying this conclusion.

You're wrong.
I copy things from the game and paste them into here. How is that not relevant or related?

The things you say, the things you come up with, are irrelevant and unrelated.

No, it's still not relevant. Criticising English =/= VIII.

It is relevant because if you make no sense, then you will say nothing but nonsense.

I'm taking about you. Not myself. I copy things from the game, so that's not off-topic.

You are not 'copying' anything. You are making stuff up willy nilly and saying it's from the game.

Not in this forum section.

You keep telling yourself that, sunshine.

No, it's not normal. I create various views and you're arguing as if we are talking about one claim.

Statements such as that only convince me further that you're not actually reading or understanding anything I say.

It's getting no where simply because this is all about "let me look at your flaws" and discuss them. You started it, not me.

It's getting no where because you constantly refuse to support any of your notions with anything but further notions, go on the defensive ANY time people take any umbrage with your asinine notions, make excuse after excuse to ignore anything you don't like, and just in general refuse to do the ONE THING you need to do in this thread, which is SUPPORT THE NOTIONS YOU ARE FORWARDING IN THESE VARIOUS THREADS WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE AND WELL REASONED ARGUMENTS.
Stop acting like everything you say is patently obvious or that we're just picking on you to pick on you because NEITHER is true. You see links where none exist. You see 'identicalness' in everything, even in things which are nothing alike, or which are not being COMPARED to anything.
Kiddo, you need to take a step back and reevaluate what you're doing, because I'm NOT the only who thinks this. I might be the only one willing to speak my mind, but I guarundamntee you I do not think these things in isolation.
I say to you, snowflake, in ALL seriousness, that you should begin conducting yourself in the manner of a rational, intelligent discourse, if you want ANY hope of convincing ANYONE that you have a valid point to make.

Yet you didn't provide evidence that they are actually meaningless.

And you didn't provide any evidence that they have any meaning. And that is the crux of the problem. You say they have meaning, but never support this idea, never fulfill your burden of proof. You want everyone else to do the work, when it's YOU who has to do it first!

[Eaglegun]

Since time is compressed, the tunnel is from ff7. Squall could have had an opportunity to fight Sephiroth. :P